Salts and microbes

VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
I see religiously here that you cannot fertilize an organic source using salt based fertilizer without killing microbes.

I can find more sources from one google search that says otherwise and I'm confused as hell now..

It seems to be a hard and fast rule here, but most of my mates with Chem and biology majors here reckon it's also a load of shit that fertilising with salts kills microbes.

What do you guys think? I'm lost now, as usually something so unanimous here would also apply to anywhere else, but speaking to a few Chem majors at uni and the horticulture majors they told me it was an absolute myth. Then I do a search, and the majority of the responses it threw at me were exactly the same argument the Chem majors had, that fertilising with salts doesn't kill microbes at all, it feeds them...the issue is usually over fertilisation.

Screenshot_2022-01-24-07-47-48-99.png
www.gardenmyths.com

Salts Don't Kill Plants or Microbes

Fertilizer salts don't kill plants. People fear synthetic fertilizers but they add the same nutrients to soil as organic fertilizers. Find out the truth.
www.gardenmyths.com www.gardenmyths.com

Screenshot_2022-01-24-07-29-47-10.png
www.420magazine.com

Do salt based nutrients kill bacteria, microbes and mycorrhizae?

Does Fertilizer Kill Soil Bacteria? Read most organic books or blogs and they will tell you that synthetic chemical fertilizers are killing the bacteria, fungi, and the microbes, in soil. Dr. Ingham and her Soil Food Web preach this same...
www.420magazine.com www.420magazine.com
Screenshot_2022-01-24-07-30-59-68.pngScreenshot_2022-01-24-07-30-45-60.png
 
Last edited:
VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
CaliRootz88 said:
I have a friend who grows with synthetics. He also uses products like recharge (microbes) and king crab (beneficials).
He notices a difference in end product when using such products with synthetics.
Click to expand...
For sure. I feel pretty stupid for telling a few people that recharge was useless In their mediums due to slat feeding.

It seems the real issue with feeding salts with organic medium is the effect on the pH buffering capacity and overfeeding/out of ratio feeding.
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
Some organic purists might say that kind of thing, but most of the research on PGPR's (plant growth promoting rhizobacteria) is looking at their use in conventional field agriculture, and specifically, how they can reduce the amount of conventional fertilizer used. High P does suppress the microbiome to some extent, but it doesn't wipe it out by any means. I use conventional fertilizers in coco, but I also inoculate my media with mycorrhizae, trichoderma, and PGPR's and I also make sure they have constant access to food, such as seaweed extract, small amounts of molasses (I like .5 ml per gallon, once per day), and fulvic acid. I feel that a functioning rhizosphere is a huge contributor to plant health, yields, and terpenes.
 
meangreengrowinmachine

meangreengrowinmachine

Well-Known Member
Salt fertilizers do in fact kill the microbiology overtime and also don't promote a healthy eco system. It's the exact reason out entrie food system is fucked and how things like the dust bowl back.in the day were created. Will it kill all the microbes in your grow with a few doses? No but you can't sustain that.
 
VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
meangreengrowinmachine said:
Salt fertilizers do in fact kill the microbiology overtime and also don't promote a healthy eco system. It's the exact reason out entrie food system is fucked and how things like the dust bowl back.in the day were created. Will it kill all the microbes in your grow with a few doses? No but you can't sustain that.
Click to expand...
I think that's mainly due to bad fertilization practice, not the salts themselves. I could be wrong though.

The molecular structure of the components in salts are identical at an atomic level to those provided by organic matter that the microbes feed on..

A microorganism cannot tell the difference between NO3 from a salt based nutrient lineup or NO3 from an organic source.
 
meangreengrowinmachine

meangreengrowinmachine

Well-Known Member
VincenzioVonHook said:
I think that's mainly due to bad fertilization practice, not the salts themselves. I could be wrong though.

The molecular structure of the components in salts are identical at an atomic level to those provided by organic matter that the microbes feed on..

A microorganism cannot tell the difference between NO3 from a salt based nutrient lineup or NO3 from an organic source.
Click to expand...
I mean at an atomic level we are the same things as stars....is a cubic zirconia a real diamond? Is a lab made burger the same as a choice grade a off the grill? Is a bush lite the same as a fucking craft beer??? People saying "well this is the same" is very inaccurate. If we are trying to replicate nature at its absolute peek ideals for the plant, we need to replicate that as much as possible.
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
VincenzioVonHook said:
I see religiously here that you cannot fertilize an organic source using salt based fertilizer without killing microbes.

I can find more sources from one google search that says otherwise and I'm confused as hell now..

It seems to be a hard and fast rule here, but most of my mates with Chem and biology majors here reckon it's also a load of shit that fertilising with salts kills microbes.

What do you guys think? I'm lost now, as usually something so unanimous here would also apply to anywhere else, but speaking to a few Chem majors at uni and the horticulture majors they told me it was an absolute myth. Then I do a search, and the majority of the responses it threw at me were exactly the same argument the Chem majors had, that fertilising with salts doesn't kill microbes at all, it feeds them...the issue is usually over fertilisation.

View attachment 5072854
www.gardenmyths.com

Salts Don't Kill Plants or Microbes

Fertilizer salts don't kill plants. People fear synthetic fertilizers but they add the same nutrients to soil as organic fertilizers. Find out the truth.
www.gardenmyths.com www.gardenmyths.com

View attachment 5072848
www.420magazine.com

Do salt based nutrients kill bacteria, microbes and mycorrhizae?

Does Fertilizer Kill Soil Bacteria? Read most organic books or blogs and they will tell you that synthetic chemical fertilizers are killing the bacteria, fungi, and the microbes, in soil. Dr. Ingham and her Soil Food Web preach this same...
www.420magazine.com www.420magazine.com
View attachment 5072849View attachment 5072850
Click to expand...
My understanding is that it's not too bad if used sparingly. But pots are different than fields. So it's easier for the salts to accumulate over time.

With organics we normally try not to flush. Outdoors stuff is constantly being flushed in a way.

And a big part of what kills microbes is overdoing the dosage. Something about not got over a certain NPK. I want to say that above 5 can be damaging, but can't remember exactly what it was.

I'm still learning though, so this is just what I've heard.
 
G

Gumdrawp

Well-Known Member
A lot of the problem isn't the salts themselves but the chelators like EDTA and whatnot as some of them are registered fungicides too. Also certain salts will fuck up fungal networks because a lot of fungi mines phosphorus so when you're slamming in available phosphorous I was taught that your mycelium won't develop and spread like it would if it had to find and break down rock phosphate or something like that.

Also large swings in ph and high ec are probably not great for your microbial populations either.
 
VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
[
meangreengrowinmachine said:
I mean at an atomic level we are the same things as stars....is a cubic zirconia a real diamond? Is a lab made burger the same as a choice grade a off the grill? Is a bush lite the same as a fucking craft beer??? People saying "well this is the same" is very inaccurate. If we are trying to replicate nature at its absolute peek ideals for the plant, we need to replicate that as much as possible.
Click to expand...
I don't think you understand molecular structure.
 
G

Gumdrawp

Well-Known Member
Hollatchaboy said:
Imo, and this is only my opinion, if you're gonna use salt based fertilizer, then why use organics, and vice versa? Either or can be very simple on their own. Why complicate it?
Click to expand...
I mean I still use micronutrient sulfates which are technically inorganic salts I'm pretty sure, I can see a use case for quick treatment of a severe deficiency too but I definitely wouldn't grow in a hybrid system trying to do both all the time.
 
VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
Hollatchaboy said:
Imo, and this is only my opinion, if you're gonna use salt based fertilizer, then why use organics, and vice versa? Either or can be very simple on their own. Why complicate it?
Click to expand...
I'm not. I just found it Interesting that most Chem, biology and horticulture majors I Know at uni completely disagree with the slats killing microbes argument, and after a quick search, the majority of articles support this.

Just thought the contrast was crazy.

Though a convo would be interesting.
 
Last edited:
Hollatchaboy

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
VincenzioVonHook said:
I'm not. I just found it Interesting that most Chem, biology and horticulture majors I Know at uni completely disagree with the slats killing microbes argument, and after a quick search, three majority of articles support this.

Just thought the contrast was crazy.

Though a convo would be interesting.
Click to expand...
I agree. I was under that impression myself, but I believe Dr. Bugbee said that they don't kill microbial life, but I don't believe they feed microbial life either. You would eventually make the soil inert, imo, and in that case, why not use peat, or coco?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top