Spinosad (captain jack's) is some badass bug killer!

J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
In battling spider mites I've ran through 3 or 4 organic options that did not win the battle. I've been using spinosad in my flower room and the mites are dam near eradicated judging by leaf samples. It's shocking to say the least. I sprayed some pretty gnarly toxic pesticides on the infected plants and I could not win the battle. Rotated the organics. No dice. Spray with spinosad? 2 days later I can only find a mite egg if I examine very closely. I'm very impressed and I know it's organic, but for some reason I just thought it was a sissy pesticide that wouldn't work like the other organic options. The bottle does get consumed pretty quick at 4tbsp/gallon, but there's a product called Conserve SC that's concentrated and will last much longer. It's a little spendy at $163, but I've not found anything more effective than spinosad so far.

I'm rotating it with Forbid 4F. I previously ordered the little 1oz samples (doesn't everyone?) off of ebay because they were cheaper than the $220 everyone wants for the 8oz bottle of Forbid. When I couldn't figure out why the sample sizes weren't effective I thought I got fleeced and those fuckers on ebay sold me some watered down bullshit. I got my 8oz bottle of Forbid 2 days ago. Today was the first application when I cracked the seal. This is definitely not the same product I received in the 1 oz sample bottles. As soon as the cap came off I smelled this atrocious nasty aroma coming from the bottle. I never smelled anything like that with the 1 oz sample crap on ebay. When I added the Forbid to the jug with 2 quarts of water it dissolved in a very different manner than the 1 oz samples. Almost like an oil slick in the ocean and it looked different when I mixed it up.

Only time will tell if this big bottle of Forbid takes care of business along with the spinosad in rotation every 3-5 days, but I'm optimistic after seeing how well the spinosad worked. I'm close to breaking the larval cycle and I hope the Forbid finishes these fuckers off. Hopefully this information helps someone else so they don't get shafted by scamming ebay sellers like I did.
 
Yes it works. So does citric acid which you can get 5 pounds for under $25 and make close to 40 gallons of a solution that will kill mites on contact, not harm your plants, and is organic.

I wouldn't use that Forbid 4F systemic pesticide made for ornamental plants on my cannabis.
 
I keep spinosad around as a last resort during veg, for outdoor use, never had a bug issue indoors. Just don't spray it on your buds, it is responsible for failing a lot of tests for commercial growers. Sucks that you have such an infestation indoors.
 
Is Hydrogen Peroxide + Peracetic Acid effective against spidermites/bugs at a concentration that doesn't hurt the plants, or is that more for mold and bacteria? I was reading that sanidate 5.0 at 1oz/gal can be sprayed basically up until harvest
 
XtraGood said:
Is Hydrogen Peroxide + Peracetic Acid effective against spidermites/bugs at a concentration that doesn't hurt the plants, or is that more for mold and bacteria? I was reading that sanidate 5.0 at 1oz/gal can be sprayed basically up until harvest
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Where did you read that? Sanidate is a disinfectant for controlling mold and mildew. I wouldn't use it on cannabis. They use it for disinfecting food processing equipment, Chicken coops, animal hospitals, etc... They do use it on harvested fruits and vegetables specifically potatoes to prevent mildew and mold. It's not designed to be a miticide for use on cannabis.

 
xtsho said:
Yes it works. So does citric acid which you can get 5 pounds for under $25 and make close to 40 gallons of a solution that will kill mites on contact, not harm your plants, and is organic.

I wouldn't use that Forbid 4F systemic pesticide made for ornamental plants on my cannabis.
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I'm ordering citric acid today. How often can I apply it and do mites develop an immunity to it? Does it kill mite eggs? Thanks for the help brother!

As far as organic options go I'm not too hot on neem oil which I hear every organic gardener preach about over and over again. I had to use half the amount recommended on the dyna grow bottle and more soap than they recommended to get it to emulsify at a 1:1 ratio for results that didn't damage the foliage. I think I finally got it dialed in and may continue using it as long as it yields positive results with no damage. The neem really fucked the plants up at the 1.5tsp/qt ratio dyna grow suggested. Took 3 days to recover. Horticultural soap really damaged them badly too. To be fair I applied at full strength same as my mistake with the neem which is never a good idea when using a product you haven't used before. I'll give it another shot on a single plant at half the application rate I used last time. There are so few products that kill mite eggs so I really wanna get my dancing shoes on with the neem and horticultural soap. And I bought the dam things. Sure would love to use em :)

I also got a big bag of diatomaceous earth. I heard 1tbsp/quart mixed in a squirt bottle applied to the foliage will create a protective layer of DE on the leaves once it dries shredding any mites that contact it. That was yesterday and today the plant looks right as rain. No unhappiness of any kind. I'm going to inspect the leaves tonight to see what kind of egg / mite activity is going on. Hopefully this is another one of those cheap organic options that's highly effective - and non toxic :)

I don't prefer to use anything toxic on my plants. This situation is the one exception. Of course it's not something I would ever spray in flower. It's basically the nuclear option because I fucked up and brought a contaminated clone into my garden. I can't risk infestation due to my perpetual garden setup. After this cycle is harvested I'm sending a sample to Iron Labs here in Michigan to verify there is no detectable amount of Spiromesifen in the plant tissue. Forbid only has a half life of 4-6 weeks so I anticipate the tissue sample test will come back clean as a whistle. If there is any detectable amount I will not use it again on my cannabis plants.

The goal is to go all organic for my pest treatment. I've been so impressed with the spinosad that I now have a great deal more faith in the efficacy of some of the organic pesticides that are available and would love to try more. Who the hell wants to spray toxic shit on their plants even if it's metabolized out of the plant by harvest? The shit isn't healthy, it requires a hazmat suit, and is generally nasty stuff you would never want anywhere near you. I keep hearing about rosemary essential oil being highly effective on mites and mite eggs. Is that something you would add to your spinosad to increase the effectiveness or spray by itself? Thanks for helping me out here. Much appreciated.
 
Kerowacked said:
Never had a problem using neem oil at night.
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What's your ratio of neem to water? What are you using as an emulsifier? .75tsp/quart of neem and .75tsp/quart of dr. bronner's emulsified beautifully and caused no damage to the foliage the following day. At full strength 1.5tsp/quart (dyna grows recommendation) it burned them pretty good even when applied at lights off and took 3 days to recover.
 
xtsho said:
Where did you read that? Sanidate is a disinfectant for controlling mold and mildew. I wouldn't use it on cannabis. They use it for disinfecting food processing equipment, Chicken coops, animal hospitals, etc... They do use it on harvested fruits and vegetables specifically potatoes to prevent mildew and mold. It's not designed to be a miticide for use on cannabis.

Click to expand...
I've been trying to back track to it but am not finding it, maybe on a different forum. I feel like I was reading about ZeroTol for mold and algae and someone said Sanidate, which has the same active indregients, worked for thrips late in flower? Not very scientific I know...

Anything exist that you can spray/fog mid-late flower for spider mites? How late can you go with spraying the vitamin c before the buds start tasting like kool-aid??
 
Rurumo said:
I keep spinosad around as a last resort during veg, for outdoor use, never had a bug issue indoors. Just don't spray it on your buds, it is responsible for failing a lot of tests for commercial growers. Sucks that you have such an infestation indoors.
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Don't take clones from any other growers. Most are dirty as hell and poorly maintain the cleanliness / sterility of their garden space. I broke my own rule and now I've got bugs for the first time in 3 years.

You peaked my interest here. Why is spinosad a last resort in veg? I've heard it's a pretty innocuous substance. Am I missing something?

Spinosad is a live bacteria if I remember correctly. It's not harmful to the end user in any way, but it won't pass state testing as it will come up positive for bacteria. Venerate and Grandevo have 2 different lines of the same product for this reason. One line is their standard line and the 2nd is designated "CG" for cultivated gardens. The standard line contains live bacteria that won't pass state testing. The CG line uses non live bacteria specifically for passing state testing. Anyone else have any insight or information on this?
 
jonnynobody said:
What's your ratio of neem to water? What are you using as an emulsifier? .75tsp/quart of neem and .75tsp/quart of dr. bronner's emulsified beautifully and caused no damage to the foliage the following day. At full strength 1.5tsp/quart (dyna grows recommendation) it burned them pretty good even when applied at lights off and took 3 days to recover.
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I use 1 t per quart + silica or Dr. Bronners, or sometimes Aloe juice. I think Bronners emulsifies the best, but silica has good synergy.
 
waterproof808 said:
Got your mites under control with an organic product only to fuck everything up with a toxic pesticide.
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These are nursery plants. Spiromesifen has a 4-6 week half life before it is completely metabolized out of the plant tissue. It's important to understand the products you're using.
 
XtraGood said:
Is Hydrogen Peroxide + Peracetic Acid effective against spidermites/bugs at a concentration that doesn't hurt the plants, or is that more for mold and bacteria? I was reading that sanidate 5.0 at 1oz/gal can be sprayed basically up until harvest
Click to expand...
I've never heard of that combo. Sounds interesting.
 
XtraGood said:
I've been trying to back track to it but am not finding it, maybe on a different forum. I feel like I was reading about ZeroTol for mold and algae and someone said Sanidate, which has the same active indregients, worked for thrips late in flower? Not very scientific I know...

Anything exist that you can spray/fog mid-late flower for spider mites? How late can you go with spraying the vitamin c before the buds start tasting like kool-aid??
Click to expand...
Pyrethrin designed for a fogger @ domyown.com

The shit will damage foliage though. It's really a cost benefit analysis you've gotta do. How bad are the mites? Pyrethrin will knock 'em down and get you to harvest but that shit is harsh on foliage.
 
Rurumo said:
I use 1 t per quart + silica or Dr. Bronners, or sometimes Aloe juice. I think Bronners emulsifies the best, but silica has good synergy.
Click to expand...
I'll increase to 1tsp neem oil for the next application. Great info on the silica and AJ! Hearing from another grower the proper ratio definitely gives me more confidence in applying a mixture that isn't going to cause damage. Much appreciated.
 
waterproof808 said:
no, the Forbid 4f is for Ornamentals Only. From the way the original post was worded, it sounded like he was using it in his flower room.
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A little ways back I read an article covering the quality and safety of cannabis sold in Vancouver's famous unregulated dispensaries the cops and prosecutors ignore. Ain't Canada great? The journalist writing the article collected a large number of samples from several different unregulated dispensaries. They sent those samples to a lab for a tissue sample analysis. The results were downright terrifying. I can't find the article I read that actually listed each pesticide and the detectable levels of each sample. This article covers the nuts and bolts but doesn't give specific levels or specific pesticides:

I remember spiromefisin being in nearly every sample like they were spraying the stuff on flowers. Avid and floramite were closely tied for 2nd place. There are some bad dudes in this world that won't risk losing a $40k harvest (or more) and won't think twice about poisoning everyone they sell their product to just to make the money. That's reckless and irresponsible. Avoid bad dudes.

Improper use of pesticides is a pervasive problem in this industry. Gasoline and a lighter in the wrong hands can cause a lot of damage through improper use. Or you can use it to gas up your mower and smoke a bowl :)
 
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