BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
yeah for some reason i can see this being used as a politcial football by the GOP.......
Afganistan Collapse
- Thread starter DaFreak
- Start date
Kerowacked
Well-Known Member
46, “Our forces are on standby for a rapid, accurate response to any violations of the cease-fire. While not perfect, the withdrawal is proceeding without violence.”
Pentagon, “go ahead, make my day.”
Pentagon, “go ahead, make my day.”
Don't Bogart
Well-Known Member
With Biden's permission.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
I haven't read the entire thread so I'm not sure to what extend this has been covered yet... this is just from the top of the head so forgive me if I botch a few dates or w/e 
In the late sixties, when Afghanistan was still a monarchy, Kabul was a relatively modern place. Mostly because women were fed up and wanted equal rights. They followed the example of the West but it was an organic development, not something installed by the west (like in Iran). Kabul 1969, damn those pants are hot.
The king wasn't the best leader ever but he did introduce a new constitution turning Afghanistan into a democracy with civil and women rights. Unfortunately this applied mostly to the richer folks in the city and not to the lower class in the rural areas. At that time there was already a division, between islamists and socialists.
After a coup in the early 70s the communists established an autocratic republic. One where women rights and education was a given, and burka's and shit were banned from the public and for many atheism was the new norm. Young men and women suddenly wanted proof for existence of this God entity. This pissed off the rural muslims, of which some wanted to establish a "pure" Islamic state and lock up their women.
As in many communist nations, evil leaders float to the top. In this case Nur Muhammad Taraki, referred to as 'the Great Leader". In the late 70s the Communist Party killed him. This triggered the Soviet Union to invade in an attempt to establish a government they could partly control. Many soviet soldiers initially thought they were there to help the people, to build a nation. The afghan tribes became united as the Mujahideen ('people involved in Jihad') above all because they had the same "godless" enemy (the Soviets /communists) whose ideas conflicted with the islam.
In 1980 the US, under Carter, together with Saudi Arabia, decided to finance the Mujahideen, to fuck with the Russian and oppose communism. The tribes competed with each other over the financial support, making up tons of stories about how many Soviets they killed. The most crazy fundamentalist islamists got most of the money and thus weapons.
As it became clear to the Soviets and the rest of the world the Soviets would lose, the US under Reagan decided it would be a good idea to give Russia its own Vietnam, bumped up their financial support and gave Stinger missiles to the Mujahideen, ending the rule of the Soviets in the air and eventually entirely.
With no decent government in place, no law and order, a few years later the Mujahideen tribes started fighting among themselves, leading to a civil war in 1992. Two years later the Taliban was formed, mostly young muslims whose entire 'education' consisted of being brainwashed with the koran just across the border in Pakistan. Nothing but a muslim cult who was pissed off Afghanistan wasn't ruled under Sharia law.
In the 90s Taliban took control, ended all women rights, and provided support to Bin Laden, who had been supported them financially for years. Afghanistan was already destroyed when that happened. The rest is more recent history that is all still a result of Afghanistan being a pawn in the cold war between the US and Russia.
The point is, yes there is one, it's a quite ridiculous to suggest 'those people' are 'savages' who are not ready for a modern society yet. They already had that over 50 years ago and the US and Saudi Arabia are partly responsible for messing that up by supporting the actually savages, the enemy of what should have been and became their enemy. Least they can do is clean that shit up, whatever it takes, even if that includes 30 other nations sending troops. It was the right thing to do. I even see people suggest to bomb Afghans into submission while it's less than 100k fanatics who oppress the millions of people. wtaf...
In the late sixties, when Afghanistan was still a monarchy, Kabul was a relatively modern place. Mostly because women were fed up and wanted equal rights. They followed the example of the West but it was an organic development, not something installed by the west (like in Iran). Kabul 1969, damn those pants are hot.
The king wasn't the best leader ever but he did introduce a new constitution turning Afghanistan into a democracy with civil and women rights. Unfortunately this applied mostly to the richer folks in the city and not to the lower class in the rural areas. At that time there was already a division, between islamists and socialists.
After a coup in the early 70s the communists established an autocratic republic. One where women rights and education was a given, and burka's and shit were banned from the public and for many atheism was the new norm. Young men and women suddenly wanted proof for existence of this God entity. This pissed off the rural muslims, of which some wanted to establish a "pure" Islamic state and lock up their women.
As in many communist nations, evil leaders float to the top. In this case Nur Muhammad Taraki, referred to as 'the Great Leader". In the late 70s the Communist Party killed him. This triggered the Soviet Union to invade in an attempt to establish a government they could partly control. Many soviet soldiers initially thought they were there to help the people, to build a nation. The afghan tribes became united as the Mujahideen ('people involved in Jihad') above all because they had the same "godless" enemy (the Soviets /communists) whose ideas conflicted with the islam.
In 1980 the US, under Carter, together with Saudi Arabia, decided to finance the Mujahideen, to fuck with the Russian and oppose communism. The tribes competed with each other over the financial support, making up tons of stories about how many Soviets they killed. The most crazy fundamentalist islamists got most of the money and thus weapons.
As it became clear to the Soviets and the rest of the world the Soviets would lose, the US under Reagan decided it would be a good idea to give Russia its own Vietnam, bumped up their financial support and gave Stinger missiles to the Mujahideen, ending the rule of the Soviets in the air and eventually entirely.
With no decent government in place, no law and order, a few years later the Mujahideen tribes started fighting among themselves, leading to a civil war in 1992. Two years later the Taliban was formed, mostly young muslims whose entire 'education' consisted of being brainwashed with the koran just across the border in Pakistan. Nothing but a muslim cult who was pissed off Afghanistan wasn't ruled under Sharia law.
In the 90s Taliban took control, ended all women rights, and provided support to Bin Laden, who had been supported them financially for years. Afghanistan was already destroyed when that happened. The rest is more recent history that is all still a result of Afghanistan being a pawn in the cold war between the US and Russia.
The point is, yes there is one, it's a quite ridiculous to suggest 'those people' are 'savages' who are not ready for a modern society yet. They already had that over 50 years ago and the US and Saudi Arabia are partly responsible for messing that up by supporting the actually savages, the enemy of what should have been and became their enemy. Least they can do is clean that shit up, whatever it takes, even if that includes 30 other nations sending troops. It was the right thing to do. I even see people suggest to bomb Afghans into submission while it's less than 100k fanatics who oppress the millions of people. wtaf...
topcat
Well-Known Member
This may have been said already, I haven't kept up. There was no good time to leave. That's why we stayed so long. It was always destined to be a mess. Biden echoed what his professionals told him about the Taliban. A blunder, but still the right choice. It appears voters are with him, it's just Republicans and the media that are there to criticize and little mention of W's role in this mess.
Ah, the Hot Pants days! And the bitchin' cars on the street!I haven't read the entire thread so I'm not sure to what extend this has been covered yet... this is just from the top of the head so forgive me if I botch a few dates or w/e
In the late sixties, when Afghanistan was still a monarchy, Kabul was a relatively modern place. Mostly because women were fed up and wanted equal rights. They followed the example of the West but it was an organic development, not something installed by the west (like in Iran). Kabul 1969, damn those pants are hot.
View attachment 4968923
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
I wonder how many of the Afghan interpreters left behind will lead the next anti American terror group.I haven't read the entire thread so I'm not sure to what extend this has been covered yet... this is just from the top of the head so forgive me if I botch a few dates or w/e
In the late sixties, when Afghanistan was still a monarchy, Kabul was a relatively modern place. Mostly because women were fed up and wanted equal rights. They followed the example of the West but it was an organic development, not something installed by the west (like in Iran). Kabul 1969, damn those pants are hot.
View attachment 4968923
The king wasn't the best leader ever but he did introduce a new constitution turning Afghanistan into a democracy with civil and women rights. Unfortunately this applied mostly to the richer folks in the city and not to the lower class in the rural areas. At that time there was already a division, between islamists and socialists.
After a coup in the early 70s the communists established an autocratic republic. One where women rights and education was a given, and burka's and shit were banned from the public and for many atheism was the new norm. Young men and women suddenly wanted proof for existence of this God entity. This pissed off the rural muslims, of which some wanted to establish a "pure" Islamic state and lock up their women.
As in many communist nations, evil leaders float to the top. In this case Nur Muhammad Taraki, referred to as 'the Great Leader". In the late 70s the Communist Party killed him. This triggered the Soviet Union to invade in an attempt to establish a government they could partly control. Many soviet soldiers initially thought they were there to help the people, to build a nation. The afghan tribes became united as the Mujahideen ('people involved in Jihad') above all because they had the same "godless" enemy (the Soviets /communists) whose ideas conflicted with the islam.
In 1980 the US, under Carter, together with Saudi Arabia, decided to finance the Mujahideen, to fuck with the Russian and oppose communism. The tribes competed with each other over the financial support, making up tons of stories about how many Soviets they killed. The most crazy fundamentalist islamists got most of the money and thus weapons.
As it became clear to the Soviets and the rest of the world the Soviets would lose, the US under Reagan decided it would be a good idea to give Russia its own Vietnam, bumped up their financial support and gave Stinger missiles to the Mujahideen, ending the rule of the Soviets in the air and eventually entirely.
With no decent government in place, no law and order, a few years later the Mujahideen tribes started fighting among themselves, leading to a civil war in 1992. Two years later the Taliban was formed, mostly young muslims whose entire 'education' consisted of being brainwashed with the koran just across the border in Pakistan. Nothing but a muslim cult who was pissed off Afghanistan wasn't ruled under Sharia law.
In the 90s Taliban took control, ended all women rights, and provided support to Bin Laden, who had been supported them financially for years. Afghanistan was already destroyed when that happened. The rest is more recent history that is all still a result of Afghanistan being a pawn in the cold war between the US and Russia.
The point is, yes there is one, it's a quite ridiculous to suggest 'those people' are 'savages' who are not ready for a modern society yet. They already had that over 50 years ago and the US and Saudi Arabia are partly responsible for messing that up by supporting the actually savages, the enemy of what should have been and became their enemy. Least they can do is clean that shit up, whatever it takes, even if that includes 30 other nations sending troops. It was the right thing to do. I even see people suggest to bomb Afghans into submission while it's less than 100k fanatics who oppress the millions of people. wtaf...
Mission Accomplished.... Opium Wars aka Pill Frenzy against the West .... I remember the correlation between pain pills hitting the scene and the Afghan war... also once it was realized the Taliban wouldn't give up the REE sites around the country it was a wrap..... Congo same shit.... $24 Trillion in REE and there so many tribes protecting so much of the land its impossible to get atm....
Alot of American blood was shed in the name of a little country in the ME that is NUCLEAR SUPER POWER
Alot of American blood was shed in the name of a little country in the ME that is NUCLEAR SUPER POWER
doublejj
Well-Known Member
we've been "pulling out" for almost 20 years.....we needed to either annex Afghanistan as a US Territory or GTFO.....
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zeddd
Well-Known Member
I think Biden sounded disingenuous when he said he wanted to end the forever war, it would have been more acceptable to suggest that now Afghanistan is the most peaceful it’s been for a generation it was time to hand over, but he wanted to make it look like he was ending a war and bringing home the kids to boost his mid term kudos.
injinji
Well-Known Member
Last night I was watching George S interview President Joe Rob. When asked about the timing of the government failing, Joe Rob said that everyone thought it wouldn't happen until the end of the year.
Need I remind everyone this is late August?
Everyone was in agreement the government was going to fall. It was just a matter of timing they got wrong.
Need I remind everyone this is late August?
Everyone was in agreement the government was going to fall. It was just a matter of timing they got wrong.
doublejj
Well-Known Member
but he is ending the war and bringing home the kids......
CatHedral
Well-Known Member
No nukes. Their use would almost certainly precipitate the sort of intercontinental war that had us so on edge in the 80s. That seems a little unnecessary.
Budzbuddha
Well-Known Member
Time to cut the cord with Afghanistan … no real focused mission as time went on. We trained them , we supplied them ….. and all we got was them rolling over like a dying cockroach. It was a waste to train the untrainable … most seems ready to switch sides than engage or defend.
It was a doomed situation from the start. Afghanistan literally tucked their tails. Head guy thru cash in the back and split - that alone shows how much it was a waste. No matter what President decided to do a withdrawal- it was gonna go south anyways. Unfortunately the afghan people now know their government didn’t even try to keep them safe.
It was a doomed situation from the start. Afghanistan literally tucked their tails. Head guy thru cash in the back and split - that alone shows how much it was a waste. No matter what President decided to do a withdrawal- it was gonna go south anyways. Unfortunately the afghan people now know their government didn’t even try to keep them safe.
CatHedral
Well-Known Member
There are no nuclear superpowers in the Middle East. There are two nuclear superpowers with around 6000 deliverable weapons each. China is third with 320 and so is a nuclear power, but not a superpower. The nation you allude to has less than a hundred.
Budzbuddha
Well-Known Member
Regardless of ordinance used … it would be foolish to just forget about those shiny new toys left for the taliban. Targeted motor pool strikes , known ammo dumps , etc.
Pretty sure there are some black ops guys just itching to crush any military advantages. Let them keep their toyota land cruisers and RPG - destroy the most valuable tech.
CatHedral
Well-Known Member
It would be much more foolish to do something aggressive with those “shiny things” as the pretext.