science of "jar tech"

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DWCgrower406

Well-Known Member
There seems to be many variations of this method but in general it seems to be the heating of a concentrate at relatively low temps for longer periods in a sealed container that will build pressure. Ive tried this with my rosin to prepare it for vaping and it actually seems to somewhat work, but i have no idea what is happening. It improved the viscosity and prevented the concentrate from later turning to butter while seeming to keep more flavor than my winterized rosin. What is happening during jar tech? Is it basically just a partial decarb that resists letting off terpenes because the pressure builds? Theres so many variables to this its hard to know what to try without understanding what is actually happening. The size of container vs volume of concentrate will probably have a large effect on how much pressure builds. Could even do a pressurized setup (compressed air or other gas added to container). Then there's temperature and time period. Id like to try some various combinations of the variables, but it would help to have at least a small understanding of what is happening to the concentrate when low heating is applied for long periods under pressure. Does anyone know what is actually happening during jar tech?
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Rosin is so crude that I guess heating and oxidizing it for several days makes it less objectionable to smoke. Obviously there's a bunch of air in the bottle so it's just oxidizing it while also preventing evaporation of the water and terpenes because the bottle is closed. There's no "curing", because there's no enzymes in rosin, at least not active ones, after all the heat involved in the pressing. In hash rosin I doubt there would be any, because the enzymes are inside the vegetative material, not in the trichomes. If they just made extract a better way than crudely squishing it out with heat they wouldn't need to try to fix it with stuff like that. But it's their lungs, so if that's what they think is enjoyable to smoke then that's their business.

About getting THCA crystals out of it. I don't have that concern, my concern is getting the THCA crystals fused together so it's convenient to handle and use. What the hell good is having individual crystals? Are they gonna make jewelry out of it?
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Jar tech typically starts with a "sauce" as opposed to hot press rosin. THC-A will form diamonds, but if decarboxylated into THC, it will not.


The rosin will also contain waxes, with the amount and type depending on whether it comes from hash or plant matter.

8.2 Plant Waxes - GrayWolf's Lair

Plant waxes are the protective cover between the plant cells and their environment, by which they regulate their water loss, and protect themselves from the […]
graywolfslair.com graywolfslair.com
 
Nex420

Nex420

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
Rosin is so crude that I guess heating and oxidizing it for several days makes it less objectionable to smoke. Obviously there's a bunch of air in the bottle so it's just oxidizing it while also preventing evaporation of the water and terpenes because the bottle is closed. There's no "curing", because there's no enzymes in rosin, at least not active ones, after all the heat involved in the pressing. In hash rosin I doubt there would be any, because the enzymes are inside the vegetative material, not in the trichomes. If they just made extract a better way than crudely squishing it out with heat they wouldn't need to try to fix it with stuff like that. But it's their lungs, so if that's what they think is enjoyable to smoke then that's their business.

About getting THCA crystals out of it. I don't have that concern, my concern is getting the THCA crystals fused together so it's convenient to handle and use. What the hell good is having individual crystals? Are they gonna make jewelry out of it?
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IMO I think the consistency of the crystals is much more marketable to the consumer.
That’s my only guess as I don’t see much difference in smoke from the slush crystal rosin that Jungle Boys and other brands now offer versus standard hash rosin or flower rosin without jar tech.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Nex420 said:
IMO I think the consistency of the crystals is much more marketable to the consumer.
That’s my only guess as I don’t see much difference in smoke from the slush crystal rosin that Jungle Boys and other brands now offer versus standard hash rosin or flower rosin without jar tech.
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Oh right, the average legal weed store customer is impressed by things that really don't add much if anything to the effects. Like the store guy will say "look at this, it's swimming in terps, and terps are good". The rube customer will say "wow, it will be a privilege to pay the same price for terps as for actual THC/THCA, give me the sauce, here's $100 for that gram right there". What they don't realize is that terps are cheap and readily available, and they don't get you high at all, or people would be smoking pure terps. Personally, I'm not a fan of smoking turpentine and/or gunk cleaner, which are the exact same major terps found in cannabis. So now the ploy is"look at these THCA crystals, because they're crystals you really should pay me a lot more than if it was amorphous". And the rubes say "that does make sense, that will make me much higher because it looks different, here's $100, mmm, crystals swimming in terps, actually take $200, you're clearly under-pricing it, you forgot to charge for the terp sauce".
 
Alter Jean

Alter Jean

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
Oh right, the average legal weed store customer is impressed by things that really don't add much if anything to the effects. Like the store guy will say "look at this, it's swimming in terps, and terps are good". The rube customer will say "wow, it will be a privilege to pay the same price for terps as for actual THC/THCA, give me the sauce, here's $100 for that gram right there". What they don't realize is that terps are cheap and readily available, and they don't get you high at all, or people would be smoking pure terps. Personally, I'm not a fan of smoking turpentine and/or gunk cleaner, which are the exact same major terps found in cannabis. So now the ploy is"look at these THCA crystals, because they're crystals you really should pay me a lot more than if it was amorphous". And the rubes say "that does make sense, that will make me much higher because it looks different, here's $100, mmm, crystals swimming in terps, actually take $200, you're clearly under-pricing it, you forgot to charge for the terp sauce".
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You're not wrong. You're not right 100% but you're definitley not wrong either..

And they stopped calling them crystals they call them Diamonds so it's an extra $100
 
D

DWCgrower406

Well-Known Member
Fadedawg said:
Jar tech typically starts with a "sauce" as opposed to hot press rosin. THC-A will form diamonds, but if decarboxylated into THC, it will not.


The rosin will also contain waxes, with the amount and type depending on whether it comes from hash or plant matter.

8.2 Plant Waxes - GrayWolf's Lair

Plant waxes are the protective cover between the plant cells and their environment, by which they regulate their water loss, and protect themselves from the […]
graywolfslair.com graywolfslair.com
Click to expand...
ok, thats where i was a bit confused. It seems there are multiple outcomes of jar tech depending on how you do it. diamonds are definitely not what i want. What i want is is carts with no addatives that vape well and havent lost all flavor. Winterization was perfect other than loss of flavor, first attempt at "jar tech" was pretty successful at achieving what i wanted but needs fine tuning. It had more flavor than winterized, but could use improvement. Viscosity was right at the edge of vapable. First hit of a session is a bit dry, then it starts flowing from the heat and hits amazing. A quick blast of hair dryer to the cart gets it hitting good immediately. I have preheat function but i wish it was a bit lower power because i can hear it sizzling and it gives a slight burnt taste afterwards so i dont use that. For next jar tech attempt i think i will go just hot enough to decarb for short period which should prevent crystalization, then go very low heat for a day or 2. Also want to use a much smaller container that will build pressure faster to hopefully improve terpene retention. Last time i used a 4 oz jar with 3 grams in it which was way too big.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
They're actually pretty hard to get rid of, you would have to leave extract out in a thin layer for several days, like drying paint. When I first make my extract, it reeks like hell. After a day of drying it's considerably less reeking but still pretty strong if you get nose close. You can definitely smell it through a baggie. I guess some of them would have some noticeable effect probably, though it seems like it would be a rather minuscule amount, unless they're added like some people do. They might aid absorption of the THC by acting to dilute it slightly on your lungs, spreading it out more. I sure wouldn't want to smoke "diamonds" swimming in terps though, I think that would be overdoing it. A slight amount, yes, a large amount, no. That was an informative page by Fadedawg though.
 
C

cancerkiller

Well-Known Member
Fadedawg said:
Here is a link to a study I did on the terpenes in cannabis that may shed some light on the discussion:

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seems like ur the one to ask.
i don't smoke. i've been consuming over a gram a day of extract for over 7 years now after one of the top ten cancer hospitals told me there was nothing they could do and i'd likely die in 3 months.
at one point i was taking 3000mg daily and after a couple of months i experienced pain in my liver area after dosing. a lab confirmed my liver was dinged. logically reviewing epidiolex warnings, i deduced it was the huge amount of cbd piggybacking on the thc.

anyway, i've switched to a coarse wet trim leaving visible trichs, hang three days and at first outside cure drop the whole flowers in a ardent nova and then squash the decarbed flowers for ready to consume medicine.

if bubble hash preesed into rosin has less or no cbd, i'm in.
i need maximum thc and not so much the other stuff.
it all goes in my mouth/stomach, rectum and skin.
i don't smoke because it does nothing, might as well smoke catnip.

i found this but idk if it's an outlier.
 

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Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
potpimp said:
Dude, you're a gift to this forum. I thought Cannabiner was the only chemist on here. Amazing article and research - not to mention the build. Do you use this like dabs?
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Thanks for the good thoughts brother and alas, not a chemist but an engineer who took chemistry and used it in various manufacturing processes or labs prior to retirement!

I also had the contributions of my 3rd generation in the essential oil industry co-author, including terpene samples and his company's full analytical lab, a major boon to my research. That article was published in the Jan/Feb 2018 Terpenes & Testing magazine.

I researched the most common individual terpenes using drops sparingly on an electric nail from a mini pipette to establish their individual effect. They are all harsh at that concentration.
 
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