Will You Take The Vaccine?

[nuskool89]

My bad @printer i spent my lunch responding to a couple I’ll vest time in a response after work. You spend time putting together pretty detailed responses and deserve the same

 

[hanimmal]

Because that’s not how our immune systems work. You don’t go through life living in a bubble. You are constantly exposed to viruses, bacteria, and fungi and your immune system is the sum of the response to that exposure.

I understand your point, I’m not advocating the dismissal of taking precautions with personal health choices. I have nothing against vaccines and look forward to the further development of even more effective implementations.

My point in any of this is not signing on to alarmism and conspiracy, from either political spectrum.

I am not a Republican, I am not a democrat. Too far either way results in foolish world views and blinds people with vitriol toward the “other side.” How easy it is to manipulate populations into a “us vs them” mentality is far more concerning to me than Covid ever will be. I cannot sign on to the wide brush painting of individuals who vote a certain way.

I bring up Delta deaths and hospitalization rates because it’s important to keep real numbers in perspective when going about our daily lives. I am not a pessimist

Over 600,000 dead Americans is not a good enough reason to have a little alarm?

If so please explain why it is not.

 

[mooray]

Access to medical treatment/vaccines? Or maybe daily deaths?

Giving it to someone else.

 

[nuskool89]

Over 600,000 dead Americans is not a good enough reason to have a little alarm?

If so please explain why it is not.

Diminishing alarm* /a calmer view after living through the last year


lll come back I’m at work

 

[printer]

My bad @printer i spent my lunch responding to a couple I’ll vest time in a response after work

No big deal, I find I wish I had more time to get things done also but only so much free time in the day. Speaking of time I used some to answer your questions. It does seem there is data saying Delta is worse in being more infectious, needing more medical resources and worse outcomes. After all, it is not a binary result, you are OK or dead. My sister got SARS way back when and she came close to death but recovered. She has scared lungs now because of it. It seems Covid also has long term negative outcomes that we are just beginning to grasp.

I did read (might be in the articles I quoted) that anyone not infected will get the Delta or another variant. It is just a question of when. I found more articles (I really like scholarly articles/papers) but, got other stuff to do.

 

[printer]

Diminishing alarm* /a calmer view after living through the last year

lll come back I’m at work

There is less alarm as half our population is protected and will not come to harm to a great extent. The the other half think it is of little concern so that adds up to less concern overall. But if you are talking about political leaders, hospital executives, people in charge of keeping us safe, yes they see the new variants with greater concern.

 

[hanimmal]

Diminishing alarm* /a calmer view after living through the last year


lll come back I’m at work

No worries, work > riu.

Calmer is great and all, but until our family and friends and fellow citizens are finally safe from the constant assault of propaganda aimed to drive them into being very unsafe during this pandemic, I am not sure there is any way but to act like a smoke alarm until people wake up from the spam attack death trolls.

 

[1212ham]

Exactly. Don’t forget the 194,000,000 infected (or well, confirmed positive via testing* as there are probably way more than that)

So keeping those numbers you just gave in perspective, what is the likelihood of you

a) contracting the virus

b) being hospitalized by the virus

c) dying from the virus

in a world population of somewhere close to 7.6 Billion, and a US population of around 330 million.

The global Covid pandemic is not about ME !!!!

 

[HGCC]

We got too many people hanimal, that's why. My alarm grows weaker by the day.

I'm just gonna call this reverse idiocracy. Its dumb not to get the vaccine. From what I gather there has been a pretty dramatic uptick in hospitalization among young people with the new variety (couldn't say on deaths). The people that had the vaccine are fairing quite a bit better, most hospitalizations are among the un-vaccinated. So do dumb shit, deal with the results. There's a chance it decreases those dumb shit genes from the overall human gene pool and we wind up better off.

Man its a grumpy damn day.

 

[printer]

Diminishing alarm* /a calmer view after living through the last year


lll come back I’m at work

Living Evidence - SARS-CoV-2 variants
Virulence/severity or duration of disease compared with wild type -

Estimated risk of hospitalisation doubled compared to Alpha*^ and higher odds of oxygen requirement, intensive care unit admission, or death*^
Estimated vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission and effectiveness against severe outcomes*^
Resistant against Bamlanivimab*^ and efficiently inhibited by Etesevimab, Imdevimab and by Casirivimab/Imdevimab*^
Estimated viral load ~1000 times higher than other strains*^
Emerging evidence to suggest symptoms can differ to wild type*^

Living Evidence - SARS-CoV-2 variants

Viruses constantly change through mutation and over time, new variants of a virus are expected to occur. Some variants have characteristics that have a significant impact on transmissibility, severity of disease and effectiveness of vaccines. This table includes information on variants that are...

aci.health.nsw.gov.au

The links are active in the table.

 

[Fogdog]

This is tongue in cheek but, every obese person who died from congestive heart failure died from a preventable disease.

All plus sized clothing stores, fast food/most restaurants, and pro body image acceptance groups are part of a death cult.


I can’t even begin to take you seriously if you default to “you guys are a death cult” when I’m not part of any group you want to lump me in to, as you perceive general dialogue on the subject of Covid vaccines and Covid variants as a threat

Irrelevant. Also a false equivalence.

Did you know that the strongest predictive factor in whether or not a person accepts the vaccine is their level of education. The less educated listen to Trump. Ignorance is also preventable. Your kind are fostering diseases that affect all of us and dying from them for no good reason.

You guys are a death cult.

 

[Fogdog]

That goes back to my initial post asking if there was data pointing to the delta variant being more virulent. I remember last year there was a huge concern hospitals would have to turn people away and ERs would potentially become too full, etc etc.

Even at the peak of the upswing prior to vaccines being introduced, did that scenario come to fruition on a large scale? Serious question/asking for info

Is there a likelihood of this doomsday full capacity hospitals, given the current circumstances across the globe, where such a large segment of the real “at risk” population is now vaccinated?

Oh horse shit.

There were plenty of hot spots in this country where local hospitals had to refuse new patients.

You guys are a death cult.

 

[UncleBuck]

This is tongue in cheek but, every obese person who died from congestive heart failure died from a preventable disease.

All plus sized clothing stores, fast food/most restaurants, and pro body image acceptance groups are part of a death cult.


I can’t even begin to take you seriously if you default to “you guys are a death cult” when I’m not part of any group you want to lump me in to, as you perceive general dialogue on the subject of Covid vaccines and Covid variants as a threat

I bet youre not racist but

 

[Budley Doright]

Your penis is small

Great point, beat (no pun intended) me too it. Lol

 

[Budley Doright]

The fact it’s more contagious has nothing to do with how virulent it is. You’re so caught up in being right you’re missing the point. If the majority of the population above 45 is vaccinated, even if people are getting infected it doesn’t translate to more deaths. You can’t fake the reality that the younger you are the less serious covid is. It’s staggering how few people have passed away who are under 45. When you get down to 25 and below it’s an even lower death rate.

Think of how many people were exposed last year prior to vaccines. In the first few waves where the most at risk people passed away quickly in many populations across the world, what was the chance of death? At its peak moving through the world population pre vaccine what was the percentage of those infected that passed away? What percentage had to be hospitalized? Remove emotion for a minute and think of the bigger picture.

Is it safe to say the number of people who caught covid is much higher than those that tested positive for covid? There may be deaths not counted as well, but it’s less likely deaths were underreported (unless you’re China) as Irregular patterns would emerge in countries (like China) but the average is 2% or less so far, and trending downward drastically. Not 2% of the population, 2% of those infected.

So now there is Delta, a strain more contagious, but who is being infected at this point matters a lot. If it’s not any more virulent, it means there will be fewer and fewer cases that require hospitalization, and even less deaths. It’s something to be hopeful and positive about not doom and gloom apocalyptic. The world is getting better everyday

No it’s not the covid alone that brought me to this sad conclusion, it’s just another thing that in the last few years, has led me to believe, this life, as we know it, is coming to an end and we did caused it and are too stupid/selfish to honestly try and fix it. But as fog and everyone else said, covid is one thing that can be fixed and only idiots would not.

 

[rkymtnman]

this life, as we know it, is coming to an end

would you like to play a game?

global thermonuclear war perhaps?? lol

 

[rkymtnman]

No it’s not the covid alone that brought me to this sad conclusion, it’s just another thing that in the last few years, has led me to believe, this life, as we know it, is coming to an end and we did caused it and are too stupid/selfish to honestly try and fix it. But as fog and everyone else said, covid is one thing that can be fixed and only idiots would not.

and imagine if these maga morons were the majority during polio and measles outbreaks. we might not be around now.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Food for thought and something for the vaccine "hesitant" to consider, also perhaps some of the reason for the panic on the right about vaccines and a sudden change in attitude. This also makes me wonder abut the CDC's guidance on masks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Delta variant is one of the most infectious respiratory diseases known, CDC director says

Delta variant is one of the most infectious respiratory diseases known, CDC director says (cnbc.com)


KEY POINTS

• The delta Covid variant is one of the most infectious respiratory diseases seen by experts.
• Currently, the more infectious variant makes up more than 83% of sequenced cases in the U.S.
• 97% of people admitted to hospitals with Covid symptoms are unvaccinated.

The delta Covid variant is one of the most infectious respiratory diseases ever seen by scientists, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Thursday.
The variant is highly contagious, largely because people infected with the delta strain can carry up to 1,000 times more virus in their nasal passages than those infected with the original strain, according to new data.

“The delta variant is more aggressive and much more transmissible than previously circulating strains,” CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told reporters at a briefing Thursday. “It is one of the most infectious respiratory viruses we know of, and that I have seen in my 20 year career.”

The delta variant has spread quickly through the U.S., accounting for more than 83% of sequenced cases in the U.S. right now, up from 50% the week of July 3.

The seven-day average of new cases is up about 53% from last week, currently at 37,674 new cases per day. Hospitalizations are up 32% from last week at about 3,500 per day and deaths have also increased 19% in the same time frame to about 240 per day.


“This virus has no incentive to let up, and it remains in search of the next vulnerable person to infect,” Walensky said.

The virus is ripping through U.S. counties with low vaccination rates, while counties with high vaccination rates are seeing lower rates of new cases.

 

[rkymtnman]

Food for thought and something for the vaccine "hesitant" to consider, also perhaps some of the reason for the panic on the right about vaccines and a sudden change in attitude. This also makes me wonder abut the CDC's guidance on masks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Delta variant is one of the most infectious respiratory diseases known, CDC director says

Delta variant is one of the most infectious respiratory diseases known, CDC director says (cnbc.com)


KEY POINTS

• The delta Covid variant is one of the most infectious respiratory diseases seen by experts.
• Currently, the more infectious variant makes up more than 83% of sequenced cases in the U.S.
• 97% of people admitted to hospitals with Covid symptoms are unvaccinated.

The delta Covid variant is one of the most infectious respiratory diseases ever seen by scientists, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Thursday.
The variant is highly contagious, largely because people infected with the delta strain can carry up to 1,000 times more virus in their nasal passages than those infected with the original strain, according to new data.

“The delta variant is more aggressive and much more transmissible than previously circulating strains,” CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told reporters at a briefing Thursday. “It is one of the most infectious respiratory viruses we know of, and that I have seen in my 20 year career.”

The delta variant has spread quickly through the U.S., accounting for more than 83% of sequenced cases in the U.S. right now, up from 50% the week of July 3.

The seven-day average of new cases is up about 53% from last week, currently at 37,674 new cases per day. Hospitalizations are up 32% from last week at about 3,500 per day and deaths have also increased 19% in the same time frame to about 240 per day.

View attachment 4949213
“This virus has no incentive to let up, and it remains in search of the next vulnerable person to infect,” Walensky said.

The virus is ripping through U.S. counties with low vaccination rates, while counties with high vaccination rates are seeing lower rates of new cases.

we're gonna have to seriously go thru the voting rolls of repubs after covid is done. lots of them are the victims or the ignorant sheeple of the trump flu.

 

[nuskool89]

You have good points. And I would agree with you except for one thing. Hospitals are filling up again in places where vaccination rates are low. That is the most important metric. Hospitals dealing with covid patients have less resources (mainly nurses) to care for them and the regular patients that need surgeries for some ailment. So the people who need a knee replaced, a heart operation that can wait, these people are left in limbo while the hospitals are dealing with covid.

The people are showing up more in hospitals as there are more younger people infected now. The higher infection rate is because it takes a much less virus count to infect a person. So rather than needing to be with an infected person for ten minutes to get enough virus cells a minute might be enough. And I might as well say right now, yes I know all about it being related to the ventilation, if the air is stagnant or not, I took care of a hospital ventilation system, with about 120 isolation rooms including ICU rooms. I worked with the infection control people regularly and have a pretty good idea of what is involved in keeping people safe from airborne and contact infections, I have been in many infectious patient rooms, thankfully never in our Ebola rooms. (edit: I should say, with a patient. Certified the room was working as designed, air locks, shower for the staff leaving the room, and not a 'take your cloths off and relax under a hot shower' experience' either.

So yes I can see the big picture. I have seen people in ICU rooms and the families say goodbye to some of them. I have seen the round the clock care that these patients need. Let us look at ICU admissions, the chart track admissions with a 7 day rolling average.

View attachment 4948881

The US trajectory is not on a good path it seems. There is room in the system yet to deal with them, but again, with them taking up a fair share of hospital resources other patients will go wanting.

Great response and all valid points. I remember reading about several isolated incidents in US cities with at-capacity ERs for periods of time; was it Boston? Also stories of elderly Italians over a certain age being turned away/told to stay at home when Italy was really getting hammered. You seem skilled at finding it, is there data that hospitals kept showing what capacity the ER was at week over week? Itd be interesting to see a nationwide graph showing what percentage of ERs were near or at capacity through the worst times to see how close we were to passing/failing stress tests in the whole system

That same subject about patients with other needs (knee replacement or heart procedures not getting treatment) directly affected me last summer. But not because the hospitals were at capacity, rather the one I needed was intentionally kept empty as possible through restrictions on procedures allowed. Though, I don’t really fault state or local officials for mandating certain restrictions or being “too safe” in the first part of covid, as we lacked data.

I also wonder how many people died because they didn’t seek treatment/testing for whatever ailed them, over fear of being exposed if they went to the hospital.