DWC Top Feed. First Grow in over 20 years.. Help, Advice appreciated.

[Yande]

Ok, I've been procrastinating about putting this thread up, as I do not like asking for help and think I can nut most things out myself... but I need advice.. I want guidance, so if you have any tips, please know your knowledge will be appreciated and shared.

Why do I want to DWC Top Feed? That technique really appeals to me, plus I did it once a long time ago and it went well. I am set up for it, and at this stage it's happening, for this grow at least. Not to mention I have not looked into the difficulty of making my own soil etc.. as I live in an area that I buy most things from EBay etc.. Bunnings.. only..

Equipment:
Mars hydro 1m x 1m tent. (4' x 4')
Mars hydro TSW 2000
Vivosun 6" extraction fan and Carbon Filter to suit. Ducted about 1 meter to another room.

Temp. 20C-22C Approx 70F
Humidity at plant level: 77%
Height for TSW 2000 light: 46cm/ 18" @ 55% (Advice?)

Strain: Amnesia Haze (Fem Photoperiod)
If I knew what I know now I would have gone for more Indica dominant strain, as this one, being predominately Sativa will stretch and take longer to finish. But my bad there.. Lesson learnt.
Pics show 20L (5.3G) Res, being pumped up to 2 x 15 L (4G approx) Pots. 40mm (1.5") Rockwool cubes in approx 130mm (5") Net Pots.
Pots are set up with an inlet to assist me to pump out. (Please appreciate the trouble I go to converting metric to Imperial. What a PITA!)
I also have a 60L (16G) Tote/Bin to mix up nutrients before adding them to the res/pots.
2 x 100mm (4") Air stones in Res, one (same) in each pot all controlled by a 4 outlet Resun Air 8000 running at present at around 50%.
Top Feed is aimed at the side of the Rock wool, so not drowning the roots, though roots were visable out of bottom of Rockwool when I put them in the Hydroton/Net Pots.
60L tote has it's own Air Pump stone. ( I fill the tote and let it sit with air stone for a day before draining into Res, and then into pots.
Tap water is around 7.9PH and 120ppm.
Using Canna Aqua Vega A+B, which hopefully will be followed up by Aqua Flora A+B
PH'd water down to 5.9
Water temp is 20.5C (69F) I have numerous Aquarium heaters to use if needed.
Grow room is like a basement, man cave. Very constant temperature, though humidity can be high. At times it can even been wet, mostly during heavy/heavy rain. I have a small 12v bilge pump, to stop my Res from floating, (about to be mounted on a Float switch) as the ground seeps during flooding which we experienced last week.)
I have Blue Lab PH and EC meters.

I had a huge big hard time getting seed. Finally got some Amnesia Haze and they hit the water April 17 and what you see is what I have achieved in that time since. Not much in 21 days.
I figure I loved them and over watered them to near death. Yep, learnt about LITFA. Since then, I moved them to the Hydroton Net pots around 4 days ago and initially fed them just PH'd water, though 2 days ago I started them on EC 0.5 (I also have a relatively cheap PPM mS/uS/PPT meter by HM Digital. Which reads PPM at 250. Then minus initial read of 120.? I ask, if that is how you do it? Take your read and then take your initial read off. EG. tap water was 0.2, and I am now reading 0.5, hence you have added 0.3EC? Same with PPM?

Apology, I have attempted to make this post as succinct as possible, and if you are still with me.. Well thank you so much, reply or not!

Set up
Room

Tent

Shows Carbon Filter etc

Most growth ever was last 24 hours. Feeding to the side of Rockwoll cube..

Day 21 from first cracked seed.

Finally I feel they are on their way.. Bigger and better with all your help..
Will now be using this as my own reference. Feel free to comment, etc.. Thanks

 

[Tvanmunhen]

Thanks for such a detailed rundown I'm watching for the pros to chime in but I believe your optimal temps should be in a range 62-68F. I believe your water becomes less oxygenated if over. Also you are looking for a total between .5 to .8 total after mixed Or 400 to 500 total ppm.. I'm very new to hydro so please take my advice with caution.
Perhaps this may help.

Redirect Notice

 

[Southernontariogrower]

dwc topfeed? Doesnt that defeat the purpose of dwc? Ive got 1g cloth promix xp m in dwc netpot surrounded and topped by hydracorn, in 5 gal dwc now, just starting to go, thinking of tote for flowering, over 5 gal, any advice would be graciously accepted. No luck with dwc yet. A long way to go, before space to flower.just dropped spaghitti, now l pray more. Anything you could share like golden rule? Youve done it lots, just need confidence back. Messy veg l know. Lst only no topping, this plant has been cracked and broken everywhere. Explains shape.
Dwc

 

[Yande]

dwc topfeed? Doesnt that defeat the purpose of dwc? Ive got 1g cloth promix xp m in dwc netpot surrounded and topped by hydracorn, in 5 gal dwc now, just starting to go, thinking of tote for flowering, over 5 gal, any advice would be graciously accepted. No luck with dwc yet. A long way to go, before space to flower.just dropped spaghitti, now l pray more. Anything you could share like golden rule? Youve done it lots, just need confidence back. Messy veg l know. Lst only no topping, this plant has been cracked and broken everywhere. Explains shape.
Dwc

Top feed assists before the roots reach the Water..
What are you growing? What strain, looks Sativa based?
Apologies I have no idea what "1g cloth promix xp m in dwc"means. Perhaps others do. Please explain.
Also.. "just dropped spaghitti, now l pray more"" " What does this mean?

 

[Tvanmunhen]

Ok, I've been procrastinating about putting this thread up, as I do not like asking for help and think I can nut most things out myself... but I need advice.. I want guidance, so if you have any tips, please know your knowledge will be appreciated and shared.

Why do I want to DWC Top Feed? That technique really appeals to me, plus I did it once a long time ago and it went well. I am set up for it, and at this stage it's happening, for this grow at least. Not to mention I have not looked into the difficulty of making my own soil etc.. as I live in an area that I buy most things from EBay etc.. Bunnings.. only..

Equipment:
Mars hydro 1m x 1m tent. (4' x 4')
Mars hydro TSW 2000
Vivosun 6" extraction fan and Carbon Filter to suit. Ducted about 1 meter to another room.

Temp. 20C-22C Approx 70F
Humidity at plant level: 77%
Height for TSW 2000 light: 46cm/ 18" @ 55% (Advice?)

Strain: Amnesia Haze (Fem Photoperiod)
If I knew what I know now I would have gone for more Indica dominant strain, as this one, being predominately Sativa will stretch and take longer to finish. But my bad there.. Lesson learnt.
Pics show 20L (5.3G) Res, being pumped up to 2 x 15 L (4G approx) Pots. 40mm (1.5") Rockwool cubes in approx 130mm (5") Net Pots.
Pots are set up with an inlet to assist me to pump out. (Please appreciate the trouble I go to converting metric to Imperial. What a PITA!)
I also have a 60L (16G) Tote/Bin to mix up nutrients before adding them to the res/pots.
2 x 100mm (4") Air stones in Res, one (same) in each pot all controlled by a 4 outlet Resun Air 8000 running at present at around 50%.
Top Feed is aimed at the side of the Rock wool, so not drowning the roots, though roots were visable out of bottom of Rockwool when I put them in the Hydroton/Net Pots.
60L tote has it's own Air Pump stone. ( I fill the tote and let it sit with air stone for a day before draining into Res, and then into pots.
Tap water is around 7.9PH and 120ppm.
Using Canna Aqua Vega A+B, which hopefully will be followed up by Aqua Flora A+B
PH'd water down to 5.9
Water temp is 20.5C (69F) I have numerous Aquarium heaters to use if needed.
Grow room is like a basement, man cave. Very constant temperature, though humidity can be high. At times it can even been wet, mostly during heavy/heavy rain. I have a small 12v bilge pump, to stop my Res from floating, (about to be mounted on a Float switch) as the ground seeps during flooding which we experienced last week.)
I have Blue Lab PH and EC meters.

I had a huge big hard time getting seed. Finally got some Amnesia Haze and they hit the water April 17 and what you see is what I have achieved in that time since. Not much in 21 days.
I figure I loved them and over watered them to near death. Yep, learnt about LITFA. Since then, I moved them to the Hydroton Net pots around 4 days ago and initially fed them just PH'd water, though 2 days ago I started them on EC 0.5 (I also have a relatively cheap PPM mS/uS/PPT meter by HM Digital. Which reads PPM at 250. Then minus initial read of 120.? I ask, if that is how you do it? Take your read and then take your initial read off. EG. tap water was 0.2, and I am now reading 0.5, hence you have added 0.3EC? Same with PPM?

Apology, I have attempted to make this post as succinct as possible, and if you are still with me.. Well thank you so much, reply or not!

Set up
Room
View attachment 4896883
Tent
View attachment 4896879
Shows Carbon Filter etc
View attachment 4896880
Most growth ever was last 24 hours. Feeding to the side of Rockwoll cube..
View attachment 4896881
Day 21 from first cracked seed.
View attachment 4896882
Finally I feel they are on their way.. Bigger and better with all your help..
Will now be using this as my own reference. Feel free to comment, etc.. Thanks

Now you have me intrigued by this top feed method and I was looking for a good read and found this! Was just wondering if you have checked this out yet?

Roseman's DIY Bubbleponics Tutorial

Preface, Let me start by saying I plan on posting much more than just a grow journal here. I hope to share a very detailed tutorial here, with many pics, on growing a pound of dried, closely manicured indica buds in a closet. I will use a store bought hydroponic kit and also use a DIY 5 gallon...

www.rollitup.org

 

[Yande]

We're getting there.. Lots of learning.. Drowned the little things initially, had my LED lights too low, and ended up starving them of nutrients. Thank fuck they are a weed. Chopped up a windscreen heat deflector to cover up the hydroton to minimise the risk of light getting onto my roots.

They came back and I now believe, like me after a couple of setbacks, are now on their way.
Still Top Feed. Nutes now at 650PPM, 5.8PH lights at around 75% at 26" Water temp at around 19C, humidity at around 55%, an temp in the tent around 21C. They even have a bit of stink about them already.. Amnesia Haze.. Love it!

 

[Tvanmunhen]

Hey Yande!

I'm excited to see your haze still kicking. Hope all is well and you are blessed with good times and great fortune!

 

[Alctrz8849]

Top feed assists before the roots reach the Water..
What are you growing? What strain, looks Sativa based?
Apologies I have no idea what "1g cloth promix xp m in dwc"means. Perhaps others do. Please explain.
Also.. "just dropped spaghitti, now l pray more"" " What does this mean?

I've done it both ways and ended up with the same result. Top feed won't harm but also isn't necessary in my experience. I find the roots search for water and that the tank is humid enough to encourage the roots to seek out the water. If your Rockwool is getting dry wet it every other day. As soon as I can see roots from the net pot, I no longer check to see if the cube I started it in is wet/dry.

Outside of that, might want to bring the humidity down to 60-70% for veg and again to 50-60% early flower and down to 40-50% mid to late flower. I keep my roots at 70F but have drifted in the range of 59F to 75F without issue. I use 6 air stones per reservoir, more bubbles kills bad bacteria and helps the plants!

Not sure what you're doing subtracting with the PPM, but stick the meter in the tank and record the PPM.. shouldn't need to subtract anything. I don't even use the EC, just the PPM.



Also.... use this chart, extremely helpful!

 

[NewJack]

Ok, I've been procrastinating about putting this thread up, as I do not like asking for help and think I can nut most things out myself... but I need advice.. I want guidance, so if you have any tips, please know your knowledge will be appreciated and shared.

Why do I want to DWC Top Feed? That technique really appeals to me, plus I did it once a long time ago and it went well. I am set up for it, and at this stage it's happening, for this grow at least. Not to mention I have not looked into the difficulty of making my own soil etc.. as I live in an area that I buy most things from EBay etc.. Bunnings.. only..

Equipment:
Mars hydro 1m x 1m tent. (4' x 4')
Mars hydro TSW 2000
Vivosun 6" extraction fan and Carbon Filter to suit. Ducted about 1 meter to another room.

Temp. 20C-22C Approx 70F
Humidity at plant level: 77%
Height for TSW 2000 light: 46cm/ 18" @ 55% (Advice?)

Strain: Amnesia Haze (Fem Photoperiod)
If I knew what I know now I would have gone for more Indica dominant strain, as this one, being predominately Sativa will stretch and take longer to finish. But my bad there.. Lesson learnt.
Pics show 20L (5.3G) Res, being pumped up to 2 x 15 L (4G approx) Pots. 40mm (1.5") Rockwool cubes in approx 130mm (5") Net Pots.
Pots are set up with an inlet to assist me to pump out. (Please appreciate the trouble I go to converting metric to Imperial. What a PITA!)
I also have a 60L (16G) Tote/Bin to mix up nutrients before adding them to the res/pots.
2 x 100mm (4") Air stones in Res, one (same) in each pot all controlled by a 4 outlet Resun Air 8000 running at present at around 50%.
Top Feed is aimed at the side of the Rock wool, so not drowning the roots, though roots were visable out of bottom of Rockwool when I put them in the Hydroton/Net Pots.
60L tote has it's own Air Pump stone. ( I fill the tote and let it sit with air stone for a day before draining into Res, and then into pots.
Tap water is around 7.9PH and 120ppm.
Using Canna Aqua Vega A+B, which hopefully will be followed up by Aqua Flora A+B
PH'd water down to 5.9
Water temp is 20.5C (69F) I have numerous Aquarium heaters to use if needed.
Grow room is like a basement, man cave. Very constant temperature, though humidity can be high. At times it can even been wet, mostly during heavy/heavy rain. I have a small 12v bilge pump, to stop my Res from floating, (about to be mounted on a Float switch) as the ground seeps during flooding which we experienced last week.)
I have Blue Lab PH and EC meters.

I had a huge big hard time getting seed. Finally got some Amnesia Haze and they hit the water April 17 and what you see is what I have achieved in that time since. Not much in 21 days.
I figure I loved them and over watered them to near death. Yep, learnt about LITFA. Since then, I moved them to the Hydroton Net pots around 4 days ago and initially fed them just PH'd water, though 2 days ago I started them on EC 0.5 (I also have a relatively cheap PPM mS/uS/PPT meter by HM Digital. Which reads PPM at 250. Then minus initial read of 120.? I ask, if that is how you do it? Take your read and then take your initial read off. EG. tap water was 0.2, and I am now reading 0.5, hence you have added 0.3EC? Same with PPM?

Apology, I have attempted to make this post as succinct as possible, and if you are still with me.. Well thank you so much, reply or not!

Set up
Room
View attachment 4896883
Tent
View attachment 4896879
Shows Carbon Filter etc
View attachment 4896880
Most growth ever was last 24 hours. Feeding to the side of Rockwoll cube..
View attachment 4896881
Day 21 from first cracked seed.
View attachment 4896882
Finally I feel they are on their way.. Bigger and better with all your help..
Will now be using this as my own reference. Feel free to comment, etc.. Thanks

I have a similar set up and I suggest to immediately stop the top feed until the plants get bigger. Seedlings are taking in water through their leaves at this point and building roots so I believe overwatering has slowed the growth. Increase nutes to 400-600 ppm for 2 weeks and watch those babies flourish!

 

[Yande]

Thanks guys for your help/suggestions.
@Alctrz8849 Yes, I think I read this wrong.. (This is from the Canna Web site and on the instructions on the back of the nutrient container)

• The EC of Aqua Vega dissolved in (tap) water varies between 1.1 - 1.9 mS/cm2 (= the solution EC + the water EC)

I get it. TOTAL EC = Water + Nutes.

But.. Say you have seedlings and you want to make up a batch of nutrients for them. They are old enough to feed, (say 3 weeks) and say your water out of the tap is 250PPM, (mine is 119), if you are aiming for a total of say 400PPM, they are only going to get the equivelent of 150PPM nutrirents, though, with my water, they are going to get 280 PPM's of nutrients. Please bear with me, as I am only attempting to understand nutrient strengths more, and the strengths referred to are ONLY an example.

At present, until I get dialled in, I am having to use EC, as there is no mention of PPM's on their label, instructions etc. All EC. In the past I only used PPM.

Great chart, and thanks for that. Definitely something I needed.
@NewJack Thanks for the advice. You are about a week late, as I have already done that, to a degree, and plants are now flourishing with helathy roots coming down into the water.

I have more air stones, and air pump in transit. At present one in each pot and two in the Res.

@Tvanmunhen Get back to you soon mate.

 

[Alctrz8849]

Thanks guys for your help/suggestions.
@Alctrz8849 Yes, I think I read this wrong.. (This is from the Canna Web site and on the instructions on the back of the nutrient container)

• The EC of Aqua Vega dissolved in (tap) water varies between 1.1 - 1.9 mS/cm2 (= the solution EC + the water EC)

I get it. TOTAL EC = Water + Nutes.

But.. Say you have seedlings and you want to make up a batch of nutrients for them. They are old enough to feed, (say 3 weeks) and say your water out of the tap is 250PPM, (mine is 119), if you are aiming for a total of say 400PPM, they are only going to get the equivelent of 150PPM nutrirents, though, with my water, they are going to get 280 PPM's of nutrients. Please bear with me, as I am only attempting to understand nutrient strengths more, and the strengths referred to are ONLY an example.

At present, until I get dialled in, I am having to use EC, as there is no mention of PPM's on their label, instructions etc. All EC. In the past I only used PPM.

Great chart, and thanks for that. Definitely something I needed.
@NewJack Thanks for the advice. You are about a week late, as I have already done that, to a degree, and plants are now flourishing with helathy roots coming down into the water.

I have more air stones, and air pump in transit. At present one in each pot and two in the Res.

@Tvanmunhen Get back to you soon mate.

With nutrients less is better. Follow the label instructions at half strength for seedlings. They don't need much at all. I have my flowering plants at 500-600 PPM right now.

 

[Yande]

With nutrients less is better. Follow the label instructions at half strength for seedlings. They don't need much at all. I have my flowering plants at 500-600 PPM right now.

Just curious.. What PPM is the base water you are working with? Again, that chart you posted is the best. Thanks
They seem to be doing ok, recovering from the over watering, and second day at this PPM regime. Have taken readings this evening, (as I have every day) though will be more exact as I refer to that chart. Readings tonight have my sitting close to ideal.
For me, this is my learning grow and I really appreciate your critique and support equally.
Growon!

 

[Alctrz8849]

I

Just curious.. What PPM is the base water you are working with? Again, that chart you posted is the best. Thanks
They seem to be doing ok, recovering from the over watering, and second day at this PPM regime. Have taken readings this evening, (as I have every day) though will be more exact as I refer to that chart. Readings tonight have my sitting close to ideal.
For me, this is my learning grow and I really appreciate your critique and support equally.
Growon!
View attachment 4904254

I start with a blank canvas and get RO water with almost 0 PPM.

 

[Tvanmunhen]

I've been procrastinating on that one myself! My ppm is around 355ppm but with an air stone and allowing my water to breath overnight it helps. Some of those PPMs are useful to your plant so if you do go to ro water make sure you have complete nutrition CalMag can be an issue.

 

[rkymtnman]

Now you have me intrigued by this top feed method

top feed dwc is why the GH waterfarms work so well.

 

[rkymtnman]

Top Feed is aimed at the side of the Rock wool, so not drowning the roots

be careful with keeping rockwool wet all the time. it "can" cause stem rot.

if you can get them, rapid rooters are much more forgiving i think.

 

[Yande]

Getting some self sustaining roots happening..

 

[Yande]

Any tips would be appreciated.
One plant definitely does not look happy, but then it never has.
Seems like it is getting busy unerneath real quick. Not sure what to do with that underneath growth. De-foliate, or let them go for another week or so to settle down on the shitty topping job, but there is lots of shade happening up top..
Apologies for the eclectic photos, just showing you what I am seeing.
Mars TSW 2000 About 24" up.
DWC Canna Aqua nutes/
PH 6.0
PPM 560 EC 1.0
Air temp: 21C - 21C.7C
Humidity: ~67
Water temp: minimum last night 16.7 (??!) Current 18.7
Topped one of my plants this week, well a mate did it, and than I think he FUM'd the other, as in "Fuck You missed!"

Thanks in advance..

 

[VincenzioVonHook]

Seems to be a hell of a lot of effort for basically no outcome....I know people are going to take offense to this, but sometimes keeping it simple the first time back in the game is a good idea. I would be expecting far more growth over the given period of time with that setup, but then again I have never seen a top fed DWC in action to begin with. Just seems like an oxymoron to me. I understand top feeding autopots for a few days until their roots hit the nutrient solution, but top feeding in a DWC scenario just seems odd, but I hope you can prove me wrong.

27 days from seed in crappy potting mix with tap water, 85w led

Another plant in $3/25L potting mix at 25 days with tap water twice a week, 30w LED


Just seems to be a lot of anxiety and over-complication to get what looks to be a few day old seedling over 21 days, in what's supposed to be the far superior cultivation method. This is what 6 days growth should look like as a happy seedling, and this is in potting mix with tap water, DWC should be far better.
may 17

May 23

That jiffy pot you see in the first photo sprouted, and over six days and is now this. I think all this is testament to newer growers overthinking and over-complication things.

 

[Alctrz8849]

Any tips would be appreciated.
One plant definitely does not look happy, but then it never has.
Seems like it is getting busy unerneath real quick. Not sure what to do with that underneath growth. De-foliate, or let them go for another week or so to settle down on the shitty topping job, but there is lots of shade happening up top..
Apologies for the eclectic photos, just showing you what I am seeing.
Mars TSW 2000 About 24" up.
DWC Canna Aqua nutes/
PH 6.0
PPM 560 EC 1.0
Air temp: 21C - 21C.7C
Humidity: ~67
Water temp: minimum last night 16.7 (??!) Current 18.7
Topped one of my plants this week, well a mate did it, and than I think he FUM'd the other, as in "Fuck You missed!"

Thanks in advance..

View attachment 4908765

View attachment 4908763

View attachment 4908764

View attachment 4908766

View attachment 4908767

View attachment 4908768

View attachment 4908769

I would remove the top feed from the droopy plant and make sure you have a ton of air bubbles in your bucket. Looks iverwatered to me and roots are drowning. I've removed the top feed after my first grow back and haven't had a problem since, even before the roots get to the water!