Florel/optic switch for hermies?

[psychadelibud]

@OPU @psychadelibud
psychadelibud, thanks for the spray instruction. The strain I've been growing has hermied almost every crop, it is a huge headache.
I've tried optic foliar switch on my last crop. To my disappointment, it did not kill the male flowers or prevent seeds.
I'm going to give Florel a try on my next crop.
I just like to ask, if you know it's a hermie prone strain, and want to spray to prevent it. When is the best time to spray?
When I tried switch, I followed the instruction and sprayed on day 7 of flower. But by that time, I've already found some tiny balls growing.

I spray right before flip, or during flip is fine too. Then every week to week and a half spray again lightly. All the way up to beginning - mid flower.

I only do it that consistently really if I know for sure I am working with something hermi prone. If the strain is not hermie proned or if I don't spot any nanners I wont even use it at all. I hardly ever get hermies anymore in my new room and over time I have come to learn that they're not really hermies, but just sterile manners most of the time.

I do have a crop currently that is going to be flipped to flower in a couple of weeks. I'm going to experiment with it, going to spray a couple times at full strength right before flip, right after flip and see if I can reduce the stretch.

 

[kg0420]

I spray right before flip, or during flip is fine too. Then every week to week and a half spray again lightly. All the way up to beginning - mid flower.

I only do it that consistently really if I know for sure I am working with something hermi prone. If the strain is not hermie proned or if I don't spot any nanners I wont even use it at all. I hardly ever get hermies anymore in my new room and over time I have come to learn that they're not really hermies, but just sterile manners most of the time.

I do have a crop currently that is going to be flipped to flower in a couple of weeks. I'm going to experiment with it, going to spray a couple times at full strength right before flip, right after flip and see if I can reduce the stretch.

Thanks for replying. It's good to hear you don't get hermies that often.
With the strain I'm working with, it's more of a genetic trait than environmental stress.

So I actually tried to mix Florel today, it confused the heck out of me.
I got a gallon of RO water PH at 7, added in Florel to 500 ppm, PH dropped all the way to 2.8.
Aiming for PH 4.5, I added PH up. But once I manage to bring the PH back up, PPM dropped to 250.
I can only assume the PH up made the Ethephon instantly evaporated to ethylene gas? It was strange as hell.
I also tried PH down the water before adding Florel, or just using plain city water. None worked.
Have you checked ppm after PH to 4.5? What am I doing wrong here? lol

 

[psychadelibud]

Thanks for replying. It's good to hear you don't get hermies that often.
With the strain I'm working with, it's more of a genetic trait than environmental stress.

So I actually tried to mix Florel today, it confused the heck out of me.
I got a gallon of RO water PH at 7, added in Florel to 500 ppm, PH dropped all the way to 2.8.
Aiming for PH 4.5, I added PH up. But once I manage to bring the PH back up, PPM dropped to 250.
I can only assume the PH up made the Ethephon instantly evaporated to ethylene gas? It was strange as hell.
I also tried PH down the water before adding Florel, or just using plain city water. None worked.
Have you checked ppm after PH to 4.5? What am I doing wrong here? lol

I honestly have never measured ppms nor EC in my entire life believe it or not (this year will be 18 long years growing for me)... I was brought up using old school techniques and I have just conformed to that method and stuck with it my entire life.

I mostly do everything visually and by feel. All I do is bring the PH down to 4.5 and spray, all while having no clue what the ppms are, however, I have never had any issues at all (no burning, etc...)

If your still feeling leery about it, just go ahead and make your mix, add a couple drops of plain ivory dish soap unless you have a plant specific surfactant (I always use ivory). Then PH to 4.5 and maybe just spray one plant and see how she looks in the next day or two and take it from there...

 

[Bonnieandclyde711]

Hmmm.... I bet you did not mix it right, adjust the pH correctly or you had a bunk bottle of Florel. I have used it for 3 years straight and it always works perfectly. If used correctly, it should have taken care of the issue for sure.

How did you mix the Florel, if you don't mind me asking..?

I know this thread is super old but I cant find an answer on this anywhere. We sprayed optic foliar switch all over our plant (including the cola's) and then later saw something that said to only spray leaves. Did we just kill our plant?

 

[Jjgrow420]

I know this thread is super old but I cant find an answer on this anywhere. We sprayed optic foliar switch all over our plant (including the cola's) and then later saw something that said to only spray leaves. Did we just kill our plant?

its not advisable to spray anything on your buds. switch is supposed to be used in the first 2 weeks after 12/12. did your hairs shrivel up? youre likley fine with an application or two but i wouldnt be spraying buds with anything

 

[HunterMFG]

I know this thread is super old but I cant find an answer on this anywhere. We sprayed optic foliar switch all over our plant (including the cola's) and then later saw something that said to only spray leaves. Did we just kill our plant?

Lol I just did the same thing. Whoops. And I’ve been emailing the optic foliar dude and he is stating there is absolutely no way it’ll work without their handy dandy Transport! So now I just have one plant (F33) downstairs in the sunlight that I sprayed two nights ago. I checked it for nanners today and the few I found were totally dried up and looked “dead”. So do you think it’s safe to put back in the tent with the other 3 that I believe weren’t cross-pollinated?
I went ahead and ordered a bottle of the Transport and also some Monterey Florel just to have them on hand. Shouldn’t have this issue again as I fixed my light leak.

 

[HunterMFG]

its not advisable to spray anything on your buds. switch is supposed to be used in the first 2 weeks after 12/12. did your hairs shrivel up? youre likley fine with an application or two but i wouldnt be spraying buds with anything

Whoops I meant to post my reply to you rather than BonnieAndClyde (btw awesome username, those are my dogs names!) So @Jjgrow420 hopefully you can help shed some light on the questions I’ve asked.

 

[psychadelibud]

I know this thread is super old but I cant find an answer on this anywhere. We sprayed optic foliar switch all over our plant (including the cola's) and then later saw something that said to only spray leaves. Did we just kill our plant?

No... I spray the entire plant, buds and all. But I would not advise to spray anytime past mid flower.

 

[psychadelibud]

and I've been using this and have used this on multiple grows for several years. The only thing your likely to see is the hairs browning a bit here and there (which is normal for this situation). Depending on how strong your lights are, I'd dim them a bit until the solution dries.

 

[xtsho]

Are people having so many issues with hermies that they need to spray PGRs on their plants to prevent them?

 

[psychadelibud]

And just to put it out there, it's not advisable to spray your plants with anything during flower unless basic foliar feedings in the first 2 weeks or so of flower.

 

[psychadelibud]

Are people having so many issues with hermies that they need to spray PGRs on their plants to prevent them?

I see your point. But sometimes shit happens and its hard to just throw a grow away and start over (for some of us). I never have issues with proven cuts or stable lines, but sometimes your gonna get ahold of some shit genetics that are unstable or herm prone lines such as the chems, sours, cookies etc. When i find something that herms without stress or with little stress involved, I finish it out and then it's gone, not to be ran again. This is the downfall of constantly growing multiple varieties of lines... Sometimes your gonna stumble upon it.

 

[psychadelibud]

I should also add that Florel is not like other PGRs as once its evaporated its gone from the plant. Ethylene is a gas, it is not absorbed into the flowers or plant tissues. For example, if you spray 2 weeks before harvest or even 3 days (which ive never had to do either) there is nothing in the plant when harvested.

 

[psychadelibud]

The only harm in using the substance is to the person applying it and only in that moment. Personally I am not sensitive to it, doesn't bother me nor cause any irritation to my skin nor eyes when spraying. But soon as it dries, the risks are gone.

 

[xtsho]

I should also add that Florel is not like other PGRs as once its evaporated its gone from the plant. Ethylene is a gas, it is not absorbed into the flowers or plant tissues. For example, if you spray 2 weeks before harvest or even 3 days (which ive never had to do either) there is nothing in the plant when harvested.

It doesn't all go away. Ethephon does convert into ethylene but not all of it. I've researched it. I've researched many PGRs and have experimented with many in the past. I won't spray anything like Florel on my plants but that just me.

When you reverse a plant using STS or CS you are doing the opposite of what ethephon does and are suppressing the ethylene causing male flowers instead of female flowers. I understand how that works but I still can't imagine regular use of ethephon because of hermies. I grow all kinds of different genetics from different breeders and landrace seeds. I never have come across any issues with hermies to the point I depended on some product to prevent them.

"Toxic effects of ethephon reported in human adults till date are salivation, lacrimation, diarrhea, urgency of bowel movement, stomach cramps, increased urgency, and frequency of urination with decreased appetite with inhibition of plasma cholinesterase activity. Despite the known toxicities, there are only few studies documenting the effect of ethephon on of liver, where most of the chemicals undergo first pass metabolism."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5958565/


"Ethephon is corrosive in acute dermal irritation studies using rabbits, has the potential to cause eye irritation, and has been placed in Toxicity Category I (the highest of four categories) for these effects. It is moderately acutely toxic by the oral, dermal and inhalation routes (Toxicity Category III), and does not cause skin sensitization."

https://archive.epa.gov/pesticides/reregistration/web/pdf/0382fact.pdf

 

[psychadelibud]

It doesn't all go away. Ethephon does convert into ethylene but not all of it. I've researched it. I've researched many PGRs and have experimented with many in the past. I won't spray anything like Florel on my plants but that just me.

When you reverse a plant using STS or CS you are doing the opposite of what ethephon does and are suppressing the ethylene causing male flowers instead of female flowers. I understand how that works but I still can't imagine regular use of ethephon because of hermies. I grow all kinds of different genetics from different breeders and landrace seeds. I never have come across any issues with hermies to the point I depended on some product to prevent them.

"Toxic effects of ethephon reported in human adults till date are salivation, lacrimation, diarrhea, urgency of bowel movement, stomach cramps, increased urgency, and frequency of urination with decreased appetite with inhibition of plasma cholinesterase activity. Despite the known toxicities, there are only few studies documenting the effect of ethephon on of liver, where most of the chemicals undergo first pass metabolism."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5958565/


"Ethephon is corrosive in acute dermal irritation studies using rabbits, has the potential to cause eye irritation, and has been placed in Toxicity Category I (the highest of four categories) for these effects. It is moderately acutely toxic by the oral, dermal and inhalation routes (Toxicity Category III), and does not cause skin sensitization."

https://archive.epa.gov/pesticides/reregistration/web/pdf/0382fact.pdf

I knew about the toxicity risks and all, but did not know trace amounts were still present in the plant material. Could you post the information for that specifically or a link where some of it remains in the plant?

I guess my views are just different. I dont see it no where near as concerning as the chemicals that are used in our foods whether it be veggies, fruits, even dairy and meats. Much worse things out there being used than ethylene and many people use the products on a daily basis and live long prosperous lives... Same with our tobacco industry, ethylene is a fart in the wind compared to some of the things being used out there.

I would really like to see the report or research on that though if you don't mind, something with scientific backing?

 

[xtsho]

I knew about the toxicity risks and all, but did not know trace amounts were still present in the plant material. Could you post the information for that specifically or a link where some of it remains in the plant?

I guess my views are just different. I dont see it no where near as concerning as the chemicals that are used in our foods whether it be veggies, fruits, even dairy and meats. Much worse things out there being used than ethylene and many people use the products on a daily basis and live long prosperous lives... Same with our tobacco industry, ethylene is a fart in the wind compared to some of the things being used out there.

I would really like to see the report or research on that though if you don't mind, something with scientific backing?

There haven't really been any tissue studies with cannabis that I could find. I just am not going to use a fruit ripening PGR on my cannabis. It's probably harmless but I don't spray those kinds of products on my cannabis.


"After application of (14)C ethephon to young Hevea brasiliensis seedlings, analysis indicated the presence of labeled materials, in addition to ethephon, in extracts of tissues as late as 15 days post treatment. Chromatography of aqueous extracts from leaves indicated the presence of at least 11 compounds. One was identified as 2-hydroxyethylphosphonic acid."

Menzie, C.M. Metabolism of Pesticides-Update III. Special Scientific Report- Wildlife No. 232. Washington, DC: U.S.Department of the Interior, Fish and Wildlife Service, 1980., p. 287


"Ethephon was applied to peach fruits. Results of the studies indicated that the ethephon was actively degraded in young fruit but only slowly in older peach fruits. Methanol extracts of the treated peach fruits contained unchanged ethephon plus four metabolites. At least one of these was a sugar conjugate."

Menzie, C.M. Metabolism of Pesticides-Update III. Special Scientific Report- Wildlife No. 232. Washington, DC: U.S.Department of the Interior, Fish and Wildlife Service, 1980., p. 287

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/source/hsdb/2618#section=Metabolism-Metabolites

 

[BDouble7]

no what you said to him was you don't spray past week 3. But the day before you told him that you had sprayed a month old Hermie. I personally wouldn't trust you and I'm sure you spray up till harvest
Stop growing because I tested 1 strain that has been discontinued (extrema) because it hermies, hermied?lol Your the one that sprays his whole room. A bit offensive coming from someone with a 3 lighter who sprays chemicals mid flower with a product that has a 30 day half life. But I get it. I caught you lying and you need to attack. It's ok lol


So why do you need to spray your entire room? Lies accumulating like the poison you pushing to your custies.

Do they know what's in here?
it's because you have shit genetics I have 3 cookie crosses from Archives thats Rock Solid. I got 2 Chem crosses from top dawg that are solid. Even got more cowbell solid.

Nevermind my 1 outdated chem clone from some half ass Dutch breeder that I test on. You are still running bullshit.


Yet again you spray your entire room because you have hermies


Cat hair terps?

Damn my dude the guy literally was trying to explain a simple process to you that you obviously cant comprehend or understand basic english OR you are just 1 of those ppl who has a serious issue with hearing info you dont like because it “didnt work for you”. Bottom line is that he explained it pretty clearly, as I have also and currently use FLOREL as needed when running new seed.

seeing that you said you “sprayed low strength sprayed high strength sprayed everyday all day.....” WELL THERES THE PROBLEM!! You dont like his directions OR THE ONES ON THE BOTTLE!! You ONLY SPRAY 1-2 TIMES PER GROW AT THE ONSET ON 12/12 PRE FLOWER WEEKS 1-3 (as he told you) HOWEVER IF FOR SOME REASON YOU HAVE A STRAIN THAT NEVER HAD A ISSUE PREVIOUS THAT THREW NANNERS OR BALLS MID FLWER AT DAY 30 * THEN YOU CAN SPRAY AS NEEDED 1-2 TIMES * (as he said he did and its fine).

IF YOU DIDNT MIX THE SPRAY TO 1,000 PPM (AS IT SAYS ON THE BOTTLE) & [email protected] and use within 30 minutes THEN IT WONT WORK AND IT DOESNT “stop hermies overnight” if you already have hermies when you start spraying it isnt going to stop them completely IT WILL STOP FUTURE HERMIES AFTER THE FACT!!! You are obvious an amateur grower as the statement “I SPRAYED EVERYDAY AT ALL DIFF SOLUTION STRENGTHS” = amateur/noob. NOTHING WORKS OVERNIGHT NO PRODUCT NO MIRACLE NUTRIENT THAT 1 comment leads me to believe you dont know WTH youre doing, and he was just trying to help you.

ALSO DID YOU EVER THINK THAT HEY IM USING THIS PRODUCT I STILL HAVE HERMIES IT ISNT WORKING ALTHOUGH OTHER PPL AND THE MANUFACTURER SAY IT WORKS WHEN APPLIED XYZ AND I STILL HAVE HERMIES THEN MAYBE YOU ARE HAVING OTHER PROBLEMS ON TOP OF JUST AN ENVIRONMENT ISSUE LIKE GENETICS AND IT JUST DOESNT MATTER BCUZ YOU DONT HAVE GOOD GENETICS?! I mean growing isnt rocket science but you also cant be an idiot and think things work overnight and if you dont do things exactly as directed and steps then things arent going to work as they are supposed to.

i dont think this guy is lying about anything I think you dont like the answer bcuz it didnt “work for you” and are trying to blame him for your own f ups. Just saying ppl need calm down on these forums. You have a issue he tried to help and then u flip iut on him!? What daaaah... make no damn sense u acting like a woman and a female emotional as hell RIDICULOUS

 

[toomp]

Damn my dude the guy literally was trying to explain a simple process to you that you obviously cant comprehend or understand basic english OR you are just 1 of those ppl who has a serious issue with hearing info you dont like because it “didnt work for you”. Bottom line is that he explained it pretty clearly, as I have also and currently use FLOREL as needed when running new seed.

seeing that you said you “sprayed low strength sprayed high strength sprayed everyday all day.....” WELL THERES THE PROBLEM!! You dont like his directions OR THE ONES ON THE BOTTLE!! You ONLY SPRAY 1-2 TIMES PER GROW AT THE ONSET ON 12/12 PRE FLOWER WEEKS 1-3 (as he told you) HOWEVER IF FOR SOME REASON YOU HAVE A STRAIN THAT NEVER HAD A ISSUE PREVIOUS THAT THREW NANNERS OR BALLS MID FLWER AT DAY 30 * THEN YOU CAN SPRAY AS NEEDED 1-2 TIMES * (as he said he did and its fine).

IF YOU DIDNT MIX THE SPRAY TO 1,000 PPM (AS IT SAYS ON THE BOTTLE) & [email protected] and use within 30 minutes THEN IT WONT WORK AND IT DOESNT “stop hermies overnight” if you already have hermies when you start spraying it isnt going to stop them completely IT WILL STOP FUTURE HERMIES AFTER THE FACT!!! You are obvious an amateur grower as the statement “I SPRAYED EVERYDAY AT ALL DIFF SOLUTION STRENGTHS” = amateur/noob. NOTHING WORKS OVERNIGHT NO PRODUCT NO MIRACLE NUTRIENT THAT 1 comment leads me to believe you dont know WTH youre doing, and he was just trying to help you.

ALSO DID YOU EVER THINK THAT HEY IM USING THIS PRODUCT I STILL HAVE HERMIES IT ISNT WORKING ALTHOUGH OTHER PPL AND THE MANUFACTURER SAY IT WORKS WHEN APPLIED XYZ AND I STILL HAVE HERMIES THEN MAYBE YOU ARE HAVING OTHER PROBLEMS ON TOP OF JUST AN ENVIRONMENT ISSUE LIKE GENETICS AND IT JUST DOESNT MATTER BCUZ YOU DONT HAVE GOOD GENETICS?! I mean growing isnt rocket science but you also cant be an idiot and think things work overnight and if you dont do things exactly as directed and steps then things arent going to work as they are supposed to.

i dont think this guy is lying about anything I think you dont like the answer bcuz it didnt “work for you” and are trying to blame him for your own f ups. Just saying ppl need calm down on these forums. You have a issue he tried to help and then u flip iut on him!? What daaaah... make no damn sense u acting like a woman and a female emotional as hell RIDICULOUS

Odd 1st post for a ''New'' member lol whos being the woman here still havnt gotten over the fact you posted early pulled bud with nanners I hope that you will be able to let it go. Make sure you label them right bud, Non Organic @psychadelibud or if you prefer to be called @BDouble7 for now on. This is about to get weird

 

[toomp]

There haven't really been any tissue studies with cannabis that I could find. I just am not going to use a fruit ripening PGR on my cannabis. It's probably harmless but I don't spray those kinds of products on my cannabis.


"After application of (14)C ethephon to young Hevea brasiliensis seedlings, analysis indicated the presence of labeled materials, in addition to ethephon, in extracts of tissues as late as 15 days post treatment. Chromatography of aqueous extracts from leaves indicated the presence of at least 11 compounds. One was identified as 2-hydroxyethylphosphonic acid."

Menzie, C.M. Metabolism of Pesticides-Update III. Special Scientific Report- Wildlife No. 232. Washington, DC: U.S.Department of the Interior, Fish and Wildlife Service, 1980., p. 287


"Ethephon was applied to peach fruits. Results of the studies indicated that the ethephon was actively degraded in young fruit but only slowly in older peach fruits. Methanol extracts of the treated peach fruits contained unchanged ethephon plus four metabolites. At least one of these was a sugar conjugate."

Menzie, C.M. Metabolism of Pesticides-Update III. Special Scientific Report- Wildlife No. 232. Washington, DC: U.S.Department of the Interior, Fish and Wildlife Service, 1980., p. 287

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/source/hsdb/2618#section=Metabolism-Metabolites

Ethephon residues were found in the following commodities: pineapples, pineapple juice, apples, pears, durians, figs, sweet peppers, grapefruits, persimmons, mangoes, oranges, pomelos, plums, peaches, cherries, grapes and tomatoes.

https://www.eurl-pesticides.eu//library/docs/srm/EPRW10_Cvuas_EthephonPM034.pdf

supporting article. I dont think this should be eaten or smoked. A man was sent to jail for a year in India for using it on fruit as its banned there