How common is pH nutrient lockout in soil?

[TheDopeGodfather]

I've been really good about the proper pH level of the water/nutrients going into my soil plant. (FFOF/FFSF blend). My leaves are showing what I think is a calcium deficiency. I've been adding half to full strength GH Cal-Magic over the last few waterings, but these red spots are persistent and are starting to show up on even the newer growth.
Even though I've been careful with the pH, could this potentially be nutrient lockout for some reason? Would you recommend I do a flush and then continue with the nutrients, or should I just continue with the cal-mag at full strength and hope it gets better?
Temp is 75-80 and RH is 50%. What else could this be, and what should I do to correct it?

 

[jonnynobody]

I've been really good about the proper pH level of the water/nutrients going into my soil plant. (FFOF/FFSF blend). My leaves are showing what I think is a calcium deficiency. I've been adding half to full strength GH Cal-Magic over the last few waterings, but these red spots are persistent and are starting to show up on even the newer growth.
Even though I've been careful with the pH, could this potentially be nutrient lockout for some reason? Would you recommend I do a flush and then continue with the nutrients, or should I just continue with the cal-mag at full strength and hope it gets better?
Temp is 75-80 and RH is 50%. What else could this be, and what should I do to correct it?

You're frying your plants. You should only be fertilizing every 3rd watering in soil. That's why your leaves are well....fried. Over fertilization sir. Dial that shit back. 700-725ppm in soil. Feed, water, water, feed. Get yourself back on track sir. It's not a total loss.

 

[TheDopeGodfather]

You're frying your plants. You should only be fertilizing every 3rd watering in soil. That's why your leaves are well....fried. Over fertilization sir. Dial that shit back. 700-725ppm in soil. Feed, water, water, feed. Get yourself back on track sir. It's not a total loss.

I've only fertilized twice since switching to flower four weeks ago. Once was a top dress of Down To Earth 4-8-4 about three weeks ago, and the second was on my most recent watering I gave it half strength Fox Farm Trio.

Only other thing I've given it was cal-mag occasionally. Do you still think that's over feeding?

 

[jonnynobody]

I've only fertilized twice since switching to flower four weeks ago. Once was a top dress of Down To Earth 4-8-4 about three weeks ago, and the second was on my most recent watering I gave it half strength Fox Farm Trio.

Only other thing I've given it was cal-mag occasionally. Do you still think that's over feeding?

This one is interesting. If you have a tds meter I would be very interested to know what your run off ppm is. That would provide some good information about the level of elements present in your medium. If you see something high 800+ you know there's plenty of fertilizer in the soil. If you see something like 200-400 you know you have an under feeding problem. That data can help you determine which way the pendulum is swinging right now. Then you can take appropriate corrective action. Too low is simple. They need food. Too high? Leech the medium thoroughly with plain water. Lots of plain water. Observe your run off. Water until your run off is very low in ppm. Then water in with a good high quality fertilizer. No top dressing. Your plants are in desperate need of proper nutrition asap. If you don't have a tds meter the hone forest on amazon is like $14. High quality digital ppm / EC meter.

 

[jonnynobody]

Another issue I noticed. Your upper canopy looks damaged heavily while your lower canopy does not. It also looks very light as if you may have an LED light too close. It almost appears like severe LED light burn, but without further info I can't know for sure.

 

[Rurumo]

have you done a slurry ph test just to see where the soil is at?

 

[TheDopeGodfather]

This one is interesting. If you have a tds meter I would be very interested to know what your run off ppm is. That would provide some good information about the level of elements present in your medium. If you see something high 800+ you know there's plenty of fertilizer in the soil. If you see something like 200-400 you know you have an under feeding problem. That data can help you determine which way the pendulum is swinging right now. Then you can take appropriate corrective action. Too low is simple. They need food. Too high? Leech the medium thoroughly with plain water. Lots of plain water. Observe your run off. Water until your run off is very low in ppm. Then water in with a good high quality fertilizer. No top dressing. Your plants are in desperate need of proper nutrition asap. If you don't have a tds meter the hone forest on amazon is like $14. High quality digital ppm / EC meter.

This is great info. My last feeding which was with FF Trio nutes went in at 700ppm and the runoff was 193. That would indicate they need a bit more nutes? Should I feed again next watering?

 

[TheDopeGodfather]

have you done a slurry ph test just to see where the soil is at?

Slurry test showed 6.0pH. Which I know is a bit low for calcium... Just not sure how much I trust the results of that slurry test.

 

[TheDopeGodfather]

Another issue I noticed. Your upper canopy looks damaged heavily while your lower canopy does not. It also looks very light as if you may have an LED light too close. It almost appears like severe LED light burn, but without further info I can't know for sure.

Thanks for this. I was thinking the same thing last week so I lowered the lights to 80% power. They're currently as high as my tent will allow. Think I should dim them a little more?

 

[Skillcraft]

I believe your main problem is to much light.

 

[jonnynobody]

Thanks for this. I was thinking the same thing last week so I lowered the lights to 80% power. They're currently as high as my tent will allow. Think I should dim them a little more?

What is the actual wattage of the light? It sure does appear like a nasty case of LED light burn.

 

[TheDopeGodfather]

What is the actual wattage of the light? It sure does appear like a nasty case of LED light burn.

Two SF1000's (100w each) about 19" above the plants set at 80% power. In a 2x2 tent.

 

[jonnynobody]

Two SF1000's (100w each) about 19" above the plants set at 80% power. In a 2x2 tent.

Winner winner chicken dinner. 19" is too close. Mount your boards at maximum height. You're frying them. I have two 110w boards mounted in a nursery. See how high they're mounted? You don't want your light nut hugging your plants. Unless you like crispy fried plants that is

 

[TheDopeGodfather]

Winner winner chicken dinner. 19" is too close. Mount your boards at maximum height. You're frying them. I have two 110w boards mounted in a nursery. See how high they're mounted? You don't want your light nut hugging your plants. Unless you like crispy fried plants that is

View attachment 4884725
View attachment 4884726

They're already mounted as high as my tiny space will allow. Here's a pic. Should I just dim them quite a bit? Also, going back to your comment about low ppm in my runoff. I am only watering every four or five days as needed. I wish the soil would dry out quicker, but that's what I'm working with. As such, I don't have as many opportunities to feed nutrients. That being said, considering my low runoff ppm, should I feed half strength FF Trio again today, even though I fed nutrients last watering five days ago also? The ppm was 700 in, 197 out that day. Or should I stick with plain water and cal-mag today?

 

[jonnynobody]

They're already mounted as high as my tiny space will allow. Here's a pic. View attachment 4884753Should I just dim them quite a bit? Also, going back to your comment about low ppm in my runoff. I am only watering every four or five days as needed. I wish the soil would dry out quicker, but that's what I'm working with. As such, I don't have as many opportunities to feed nutrients. That being said, considering my low runoff ppm, should I feed half strength FF Trio again today, even though I fed nutrients last watering five days ago also? The ppm was 700 in, 197 out that day. Or should I stick with plain water and cal-mag today?

You know I'm a little torn on this one. The rust spots are usually the tell tale sign of LED light burn. However, I see a few unhappy damaged leaves that have gone necrotic in the lower portion of the plant indicating a nutritive issue. I would not feed more than once every other watering regardless of run off ppm. Soil holds on to those elements unlike hydro. Feeding every water in cycle will provide too much fertilizer throwing your NPK ratios out of whack. And when you do water ensure a heavy run off. Make it rain. Use a battery powered siphon pump to drain the run off. I would advise investing in a larger heavy duty saucer with high rims. That way you can run as much water through as you need to without overflowing. Your nutritive inputs seem solid. If that is a humidifier you need to get that out of there. No need in flower for a humidifier. If it's a dehumidifier keep up the good work

Stop feeding cal mag. If you are using tap water there is no need for it in soil. You are more than likely creating a calcium / magnesium toxicity situation by over feeding the plant elements it already has an abundant amount of. The rust spots you were seeing that prompted you to use cal mag looks like simple LED light burn. My theory is that the problem was exacerbated by your solution. Adding more cal mag then through your ratios all outta whack worsening the problem. I'd suggest reducing intensity on your lights by 25%. Discontinue all cal mag use if you are on tap water. Begin feeding every other water cycle at 700ppm. You may need to alter to feeding once every 3 water cycles. It appears to be a simple light burn and over fertilization problem. Even though your run off is low the plant is absorbing your inputs which are too high. Your root zone appears to be generally healthy judging by the low ppm of your run off, but you need to balance your inputs appropriately. Stop cal mag. Make it rain when you water plain water only to leech out the medium and supply plenty of fresh oxygen to the roots. Lower power on your lights by 25%. Let us know in 48 hours how things are looking. I anticipate substantial improvement.

 

[TheDopeGodfather]

You know I'm a little torn on this one. The rust spots are usually the tell tale sign of LED light burn. However, I see a few unhappy damaged leaves that have gone necrotic in the lower portion of the plant indicating a nutritive issue. I would not feed more than once every other watering regardless of run off ppm. Soil holds on to those elements unlike hydro. Feeding every water in cycle will provide too much fertilizer throwing your NPK ratios out of whack. And when you do water ensure a heavy run off. Make it rain. Use a battery powered siphon pump to drain the run off. I would advise investing in a larger heavy duty saucer with high rims. That way you can run as much water through as you need to without overflowing. Your nutritive inputs seem solid. If that is a humidifier you need to get that out of there. No need in flower for a humidifier. If it's a dehumidifier keep up the good work

Stop feeding cal mag. If you are using tap water there is no need for it in soil. You are more than likely creating a calcium / magnesium toxicity situation by over feeding the plant elements it already has an abundant amount of. The rust spots you were seeing that prompted you to use cal mag looks like simple LED light burn. My theory is that the problem was exacerbated by your solution. Adding more cal mag then through your ratios all outta whack worsening the problem. I'd suggest reducing intensity on your lights by 25%. Discontinue all cal mag use if you are on tap water. Begin feeding every other water cycle at 700ppm. You may need to alter to feeding once every 3 water cycles. It appears to be a simple light burn and over fertilization problem. Even though your run off is low the plant is absorbing your inputs which are too high. Your root zone appears to be generally healthy judging by the low ppm of your run off, but you need to balance your inputs appropriately. Stop cal mag. Make it rain when you water plain water only to leech out the medium and supply plenty of fresh oxygen to the roots. Lower power on your lights by 25%. Let us know in 48 hours how things are looking. I anticipate substantial improvement.

Tha k you so much

You know I'm a little torn on this one. The rust spots are usually the tell tale sign of LED light burn. However, I see a few unhappy damaged leaves that have gone necrotic in the lower portion of the plant indicating a nutritive issue. I would not feed more than once every other watering regardless of run off ppm. Soil holds on to those elements unlike hydro. Feeding every water in cycle will provide too much fertilizer throwing your NPK ratios out of whack. And when you do water ensure a heavy run off. Make it rain. Use a battery powered siphon pump to drain the run off. I would advise investing in a larger heavy duty saucer with high rims. That way you can run as much water through as you need to without overflowing. Your nutritive inputs seem solid. If that is a humidifier you need to get that out of there. No need in flower for a humidifier. If it's a dehumidifier keep up the good work

Stop feeding cal mag. If you are using tap water there is no need for it in soil. You are more than likely creating a calcium / magnesium toxicity situation by over feeding the plant elements it already has an abundant amount of. The rust spots you were seeing that prompted you to use cal mag looks like simple LED light burn. My theory is that the problem was exacerbated by your solution. Adding more cal mag then through your ratios all outta whack worsening the problem. I'd suggest reducing intensity on your lights by 25%. Discontinue all cal mag use if you are on tap water. Begin feeding every other water cycle at 700ppm. You may need to alter to feeding once every 3 water cycles. It appears to be a simple light burn and over fertilization problem. Even though your run off is low the plant is absorbing your inputs which are too high. Your root zone appears to be generally healthy judging by the low ppm of your run off, but you need to balance your inputs appropriately. Stop cal mag. Make it rain when you water plain water only to leech out the medium and supply plenty of fresh oxygen to the roots. Lower power on your lights by 25%. Let us know in 48 hours how things are looking. I anticipate substantial improvement.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and help me out. I really appreciate it. One last question about light burn. If this was light related, wouldn't the leaves and flowers closest to the light be affected, and not these lower leaves? I don't have any research-based reason for thinking that, but it seems to make sense in my head. I still lowered the lights to 60% anyway. I don't know how accurate it is, but using my phone and an app called Tent Buddy, it's telling me I'm now at 891 PPFD. That sound about right? It was above 1000 before.

Thanks for the info about nutes. I've been switching off between using tap water and RO for waterings. I'll go back to just tap, as my tap water is pretty good. (Under 200ppm out of the faucet.)

 

[jonnynobody]

Tha k you so much


If this was light related, wouldn't the leaves and flowers closest to the light be affected, and not these lower leaves? phone and an app called Tent Buddy, it's telling me I'm now at 891 PPFD. That sound about right? It was above 1000 before.

Thanks for the info about nutes. I've been switching off between using tap water and RO for waterings. I'll go back to just tap, as my tap water is pretty good. (Under 200ppm out of the faucet.)

The first photo you shared is a top down perspective from the top of the plant which shows pretty severe light burn. The damage affecting the lower leaves I believe is related to your nutritive issue. You really have to commit to either tap or RO. Don't bounce back and forth. It won't do your plants any favors. You need consistency. Either is fine, but you need to make a choice and stick with it. You have a nice setup there for producing around 150-200g/cycle. You've just gotta sort out your light distance and nutrient inputs. Once you resolve those you just rinse, wash, and repeat while you enjoy your steady flow of free bud to enjoy and share with your buds

 

[jonnynobody]

I don't know how accurate it is, but using my phone and an app called Tent Buddy, it's telling me I'm now at 891 PPFD. That sound about right? It was above 1000 before.

I don't get into the weeds with PPFD readings. I think the guys crunching those numbers are just chasing their tale to no end wasting their time. I think a better investment of your time is to learn how to read your plants. Learn what light damage looks like. Learn what too close is for the light you're using is by experimentation. That's how I learned and I didn't need a PAR meter or PPFD reading of any kind to determine where my lights needed to be placed. I experimented until I figured it out. Same as I did with my HID's. This stuff isn't rocket science but the ignoramus LED light manufacturers want you to believe it is with all the lame ass charts they produce that endlessly confuses the end user. It's all just a bunch of smoke and mirrors in my opinion. If the equipment has good diodes, good drivers, and a solid heat sink you've got a great light. I have never looked at a silly chart for any LED light I've ever bought. That's how useless I think the data is. Diodes, drivers, heat sink, and light spread is what's relevant. I will admit those charts are very colorful and pretty

 

[Hollatchaboy]

Try using a compost tea as well. Boost your microbes.

 

[jonnynobody]

Excellent choice on the SF branded lights. Very high quality.