Dialing in my aero cloner

[TerrapinBlazin]

I’ve been running an aero cloner for about a year and a half now with satisfactory, but only satisfactory results. Some of my phenos root really well, some are stubborn, and some just don’t do anything. I’ve been evaluating my setup lately and recently started running DTW coco. I bought a really nice all in one water tester with an app that connects to my phone via Bluetooth. The Apera PC60-Z. It’s been great for my coco nutrient rez and my aero cloner, but I realized a few things might be off the mark. I wasn’t able to test TDS and EC until recently and before I bought the PC60-Z I was just using a shitty 10 dollar vivosun pH pen.

For starters, the cloner is in a 2x2 tent under a single 5000k Samsung f564b running at about half power on a 60 watt driver. I had it turned down lower but this article says he uses a bunch of T5s close to the plants. I’m 100% LED and I built this strip specifically for this clone tent.

So before I was setting up my rez like this — 1.5 gallons RO/distilled water, 2ml calmag, 5ml KLN, and 5ml pro-tekt. The water was around 67-70 degrees. This was before my most recent reservoir change. I read this page tonight and a lot of it made sense, so I decided to give it a shot. I might add that I’ve been lax about testing the pH in the past but I’m now doing it daily.

Advanced Aeroponic Cloning -- THE SECRETS!

In my article the The 3 Main Reasons Cloners Fail I cover those issues that cause cloning failure and help you gain predictable results. This article is about methods for producing the unbelievable clones you see PermaClone customers rep'ing on Social Media! This article is about those methods...

www.permaclone.com

I mixed up a new rez with 1.5 gallons distilled water, 1ml Power Si Bloom (yeah I blew some stimulus money on hype nutes), 2ml calmag, 1.5 grams each of floraflex b1 and b2, and then raised the pH to 6.0. TDS is around 500ppm and EC is about .8. I also raised the thermostat under the heat mat to 80, which should raise the water up to about 77.

So I liked the pics and the explanations in that article I linked above, but I’m still learning the finer points of hydroponics. I’d really like any constructive feedback/criticism that will help me improve my rooting times and success rates. Here’s the obligatory pic of the setup in question. Some of the cuts in there are very fresh and already starting to root (that’s an exceptional pheno though), and some of them have been in there for a couple weeks without even any tiny knots or calluses showing up. I try to have at least two nodes down in the mist.



Thanks in advance!

 

[jonnynobody]

I’ve been running an aero cloner for about a year and a half now with satisfactory, but only satisfactory results. Some of my phenos root really well, some are stubborn, and some just don’t do anything. I’ve been evaluating my setup lately and recently started running DTW coco. I bought a really nice all in one water tester with an app that connects to my phone via Bluetooth. The Apera PC60-Z. It’s been great for my coco nutrient rez and my aero cloner, but I realized a few things might be off the mark. I wasn’t able to test TDS and EC until recently and before I bought the PC60-Z I was just using a shitty 10 dollar vivosun pH pen.

For starters, the cloner is in a 2x2 tent under a single 5000k Samsung f564b running at about half power on a 60 watt driver. I had it turned down lower but this article says he uses a bunch of T5s close to the plants. I’m 100% LED and I built this strip specifically for this clone tent.

So before I was setting up my rez like this — 1.5 gallons RO/distilled water, 2ml calmag, 5ml KLN, and 5ml pro-tekt. The water was around 67-70 degrees. This was before my most recent reservoir change. I read this page tonight and a lot of it made sense, so I decided to give it a shot. I might add that I’ve been lax about testing the pH in the past but I’m now doing it daily.

Advanced Aeroponic Cloning -- THE SECRETS!

In my article the The 3 Main Reasons Cloners Fail I cover those issues that cause cloning failure and help you gain predictable results. This article is about methods for producing the unbelievable clones you see PermaClone customers rep'ing on Social Media! This article is about those methods...

www.permaclone.com

I mixed up a new rez with 1.5 gallons distilled water, 1ml Power Si Bloom (yeah I blew some stimulus money on hype nutes), 2ml calmag, 1.5 grams each of floraflex b1 and b2, and then raised the pH to 6.0. TDS is around 500ppm and EC is about .8. I also raised the thermostat under the heat mat to 80, which should raise the water up to about 77.

So I liked the pics and the explanations in that article I linked above, but I’m still learning the finer points of hydroponics. I’d really like any constructive feedback/criticism that will help me improve my rooting times and success rates. Here’s the obligatory pic of the setup in question. Some of the cuts in there are very fresh and already starting to root (that’s an exceptional pheno though), and some of them have been in there for a couple weeks without even any tiny knots or calluses showing up. I try to have at least two nodes down in the mist.

View attachment 4865544

Thanks in advance!

Hey dude, is that a DIY cloner or store bought? DIY is easier to modify typically. I'd have to see a picture of your manifold to see how the spray nozzles are dispersing the solution. Here's how I did my manifold on a 27 gallon DIY clone tote. Hopefully this will give you some ideas of how your manifold should look for thorough saturation on all clone stems without causing a leak. I don't believe you want a heat mat under the cloner. Generally speaking heating water that's sitting in a container for 7-10 days is going to breed lots of bad bacteria even with air stones and water movement. If you feel slime on the walls of the cloner you know you've got lots of bad bacteria in there. I always add a few milliliters of southern ag's biological friendly fungicide to keep the water sterile. It's essentially a concentrated version of botanicaire's hydrogaurd.

I generally get nice roots in 7 days but I leave them in the cloner for up to 3 weeks at times sometimes because I'm lazy and sometimes I just want a massive swath of roots. I guess sometimes it's a little of both

I got behind schedule due to home schooling a kiddo and I didn't take clones until week 3 of flower. As you can see there are buds on many of the clones. They will still root, but they take twice as long to do so. Don't do what I did. Take your clones in a timely manner and they will root quickly. Once flowering hormones are flowing it's like asking a train to stop and move in reverse. Sure. It can be done. But it's a real bitch and it's gonna take some time As a result a couple of clones have severe chlorosis as the clones are deprived of nutrients awaiting root development to replenish. They're rooting finally, but let this be a lesson to you. Take your clones on time




Here is a 5 gallon clone bucket I made for my neighbor. I actually kinda prefer it over my big clone tote because I usually only need a small number of clones. I never fill my 35 site clone tote. It's kinda luxurious to spread a small number of plants out so if I leave them in there for 3 weeks they have plenty of room to spread out. I just love the compact nature of a 5 gallon clone bucket

 

[TerrapinBlazin]

Thanks for the reply. It’s long and my lunch break is almost over but the cloner is DIY. I bought the rez and collars but did the plumbing myself. I’ll read your whole post more carefully and give you a more detailed response when I get off work in about 3 hours, and post pics of the nozzles and manifold as well. I’m totally down to completely rebuild that if it will help me.

 

[TerrapinBlazin]

So here’s my pump and manifold setup. Very simple. I bought the reservoir because I didn’t want to use a 5 gallon bucket and I couldn’t find a leakproof tote. I like the 5 gallon size and 24 sites is plenty for me. They’re 360 degree sprayers and they hit all the corners. Can’t remember the output of the pump.



I’ve read that 70-80f is the ideal temp for rooting, and my water was really cool, low 60s, so I felt like the heat was necessary. I have it on a thermostat for 75f.

I had air stones in there before but they seemed to be destabilizing my pH so I took them out. The only other thing I can add is that I switched the interval from 15 on 15 off to 15 on 30 off.

 

[jonnynobody]

So here’s my pump and manifold setup. Very simple. I bought the reservoir because I didn’t want to use a 5 gallon bucket and I couldn’t find a leakproof tote. I like the 5 gallon size and 24 sites is plenty for me. They’re 360 degree sprayers and they hit all the corners. Can’t remember the output of the pump.

View attachment 4866021

I’ve read that 70-80f is the ideal temp for rooting, and my water was really cool, low 60s, so I felt like the heat was necessary. I have it on a thermostat for 75f.

I had air stones in there before but they seemed to be destabilizing my pH so I took them out. The only other thing I can add is that I switched the interval from 15 on 15 off to 15 on 30 off.

Add 2 air stones. Roots need oxygen. It is short sighted when people opt to exclude them. There is absolutely no good reason to not supply oxygen to the roots. When clones are rooting they aren't absorbing fertilizer from the water until roots grow which doesn't occur until the 6th or 7th day on average. Who cares if the PH is unstable for those days? You don't even need fertilizer in the water. There aren't any roots yet to absorb fertilizer

PH fluctuation within reason is acceptable because the plant absorbs different elements more effectively at different PH values, so PH drift is somewhat desirable. Not extremes though. 5.8-6.4 is not extreme. 5.8-7.8 is extreme and not acceptable.

I recommend you switch your fertilizer to Jack's 5-12-26 with calcium nitrate and epsom salt. The PH is stable for up to 8 days in a reservoir. Zero drift. Zero heavy metals. J.R. Peter's tests for it. I use nothing else start to finish for all of my plants. PH adjust to 5.8. 1.65 EC start to finish. 3 day flush before the chop.

 

[jonnynobody]

To specifically answer your question as to why some are rooting faster than others:

If clones are taken from a flowering plant they will eventually root, but they will take up to 3 weeks. Check the trajectory of your spray nozzles. You can do this with a flashlight and removing one of your neoprene inserts. Shine the light down. Does it appear the spray is hitting all the clone stems? Something is amiss. I suspect the clones that aren't rooting are either A) not getting sprayed or B) taken from a flowering plant. Adding 2 air stones would certainly help your cuts root faster.

 

[TerrapinBlazin]

Okay I’ll put the air stones back in. The pH hasn’t spiked since I took them out, but I think part of that was the pH down evaporating out. I figured the mist falling back down into the rez oxygenated the water plenty. I’ve got a background in ponds and we’d always use a waterfall to aerate. The switch from pro-tekt to OSA should help with the pH spikes by removing the ingredient that significantly raises it. It would go up from 6.0 to 6.8 in the course of a day, and taking the air stones out and switching to the OSA has solved the pH fluctuations so far (only been using this mix for a couple days but the pH has stayed on point). I clean the nozzles regularly and make sure the spray pattern is good. I’ve always noticed a correlation between the amount of knobs and woody texture on the stalk of the plant and ease of rooting. I’d just been chalking it up to certain phenos rooting more easily than others but I want to improve my success rate. In theory every pheno should root eventually. I’ve got a background in mycology/microbiology and I would rather be doing tissue culture but I don’t have the space to set up my flowhood and do agar work anymore.

 

[jonnynobody]

Okay I’ll put the air stones back in. The pH hasn’t spiked since I took them out, but I think part of that was the pH down evaporating out. I figured the mist falling back down into the rez oxygenated the water plenty. I’ve got a background in ponds and we’d always use a waterfall to aerate. The switch from pro-tekt to OSA should help with the pH spikes by removing the ingredient that significantly raises it. It would go up from 6.0 to 6.8 in the course of a day, and taking the air stones out and switching to the OSA has solved the pH fluctuations so far (only been using this mix for a couple days but the pH has stayed on point). I clean the nozzles regularly and make sure the spray pattern is good. I’ve always noticed a correlation between the amount of knobs and woody texture on the stalk of the plant and ease of rooting. I’d just been chalking it up to certain phenos rooting more easily than others but I want to improve my success rate. In theory every pheno should root eventually. I’ve got a background in mycology/microbiology and I would rather be doing tissue culture but I don’t have the space to set up my flowhood and do agar work anymore.

If your new fertilizer keeps the PH stable then you're in great shape there. If all clones are clipped from plants of the same age still in vegetative growth they should all root at about the same time. If not something is amiss. Inspect the spray pattern with a flash light. If spray is not hitting all stems then you need to either rebuild your manifold or install additional nozzles. This ain't rocket science. Just spraying stems with oxygenated water. You'll sort it out

 

[TerrapinBlazin]

Yeah I appreciate the input. I’ve been using the aero cloner for a while but in the past month I’ve really been trying to step my game up. One last thing, since you mention it, I never take cuts of plants once they’ve been exposed to flowering conditions. All propagation and veg is done under 18/6 and my veg and clone tent lights run off the same timer. Some phenos definitely root more readily than others. I’ve observed this by taking cuts from different phenos and putting them in at the same time, but I won’t be fully satisfied until every cut I take roots in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[jonnynobody]

Yeah I appreciate the input. I’ve been using the aero cloner for a while but in the past month I’ve really been trying to step my game up. One last thing, since you mention it, I never take cuts of plants once they’ve been exposed to flowering conditions. All propagation and veg is done under 18/6 and my veg and clone tent lights run off the same timer. Some phenos definitely root more readily than others. I’ve observed this by taking cuts from different phenos and putting them in at the same time, but I won’t be fully satisfied until every cut I take roots in a reasonable amount of time.

Keep pushing and learning man. The journey is a lot of fun, and you get to smoke your results. Now that's fucking dope

 

[doublejj]

Here's my 4 aero-cloner set-up. I can run 400+ clones at a time. I have found that larger reservoirs are easier to control temps. These are 55gl totes from home depot. I fill with 15gl of solution. I bought premade EZ-cloner sprayer manifolds and cheap pond pumps, however they do work quite well. I use seedling heat mats under each cloner to keep the temp around 80deg. I used clonex and pool shock. I get around 90% roots in 7-10 days...bottom pic is about 250 Wedding Cake...best of luck

 

[jonnynobody]

Here's my 4 aero-cloner set-up. I can run 400+ clones at a time. I have found that larger reservoirs are easier to control temps. These are 55gl totes from home depot. I fill with 15gl of solution. I bought premade EZ-cloner sprayer manifolds and cheap pond pumps, however they do work quite well. I use seedling heat mats under each cloner to keep the temp around 80deg. I used clonex and pool shock. I get around 90% roots in 7-10 days...bottom pic is about 250 Wedding Cake...best of luck
View attachment 4866153View attachment 4866154View attachment 4866155
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Wow! Your photos are an inspiration and visually quite incredible. That is a beautiful, clean, lush garden you have there. The heat mats really help? I suppose I have never needed one because my basement isn't really cold and my 800GPH aquarium pump runs 24/7 which heats the water, but seeing you and the OP use them tells me I was all wrong about the recommended water temp for cloning. I'm more than impressed with your clone room. That's just lovely! What rate do you recommend applying the pool shock at? I'm using Southern AG's biological friendly fungicide for sterility, but I would prefer to switch to pool shock. BFF is $26 a bottle and I only get 3 months or so out of one. Pool shock is cheap as dirt

 

[doublejj]

thanks...I only use heat mats as needed. The pumps do provide enough heat many times. You can buy more pool shock than you will ever use, on Amazon, for $10...

https://www.amazon.com/DryTec-Hypochlorite-Chlorinating-Treatment-Swimming/dp/B009S85LEA/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=DryTec+Calcium+Hypochlorite+Chlorinating+Shock+Treatment&qid=1617063613&sr=8-4

I mix up a gallon of shock treatment solution at: 2gr per gal. then use 100ml of the solution every 3 days...

 

[doublejj]

I use Clonex per bottle directions.....

 

[Badjem]

Hey dude, is that a DIY cloner or store bought? DIY is easier to modify typically. I'd have to see a picture of your manifold to see how the spray nozzles are dispersing the solution. Here's how I did my manifold on a 27 gallon DIY clone tote. Hopefully this will give you some ideas of how your manifold should look for thorough saturation on all clone stems without causing a leak. I don't believe you want a heat mat under the cloner. Generally speaking heating water that's sitting in a container for 7-10 days is going to breed lots of bad bacteria even with air stones and water movement. If you feel slime on the walls of the cloner you know you've got lots of bad bacteria in there. I always add a few milliliters of southern ag's biological friendly fungicide to keep the water sterile. It's essentially a concentrated version of botanicaire's hydrogaurd.

I generally get nice roots in 7 days but I leave them in the cloner for up to 3 weeks at times sometimes because I'm lazy and sometimes I just want a massive swath of roots. I guess sometimes it's a little of both

I got behind schedule due to home schooling a kiddo and I didn't take clones until week 3 of flower. As you can see there are buds on many of the clones. They will still root, but they take twice as long to do so. Don't do what I did. Take your clones in a timely manner and they will root quickly. Once flowering hormones are flowing it's like asking a train to stop and move in reverse. Sure. It can be done. But it's a real bitch and it's gonna take some time As a result a couple of clones have severe chlorosis as the clones are deprived of nutrients awaiting root development to replenish. They're rooting finally, but let this be a lesson to you. Take your clones on time

View attachment 4865751
View attachment 4865746View attachment 4865747

Here is a 5 gallon clone bucket I made for my neighbor. I actually kinda prefer it over my big clone tote because I usually only need a small number of clones. I never fill my 35 site clone tote. It's kinda luxurious to spread a small number of plants out so if I leave them in there for 3 weeks they have plenty of room to spread out. I just love the compact nature of a 5 gallon clone bucket

View attachment 4865749
View attachment 4865749View attachment 4865750

Love it man I am using 27 gal strong box as well how you get lid not to drip how to seal

 

[Doggonewild]

Yeah I appreciate the input. I’ve been using the aero cloner for a while but in the past month I’ve really been trying to step my game up. One last thing, since you mention it, I never take cuts of plants once they’ve been exposed to flowering conditions. All propagation and veg is done under 18/6 and my veg and clone tent lights run off the same timer. Some phenos definitely root more readily than others. I’ve observed this by taking cuts from different phenos and putting them in at the same time, but I won’t be fully satisfied until every cut I take roots in a reasonable amount of time.

i used to have a chem dawg cut that would only root after like 2 months lol it grew tiny little marble shaped hard buds and the plant barely yielded anything but it was still to this day best smoke ive had sad thing is i lost it because my ac unit failed on me and fryed it. it was the best cutting i had after 5 years of growing hundreds of seeds i gifted it to several ppl but all them only did one round because there wife was complaining. My friends and family still talk about it to this day lol ive tried popping the same strain Humboldt Seed Organization Chemdawg they barely grow or end up just decent(hell they never in stock). it was best one outa probably 3 sets of 20 . to be honest i couldn't even smoke it. made my heart race too much good times good times

 

[Badjem]

I’ve been running an aero cloner for about a year and a half now with satisfactory, but only satisfactory results. Some of my phenos root really well, some are stubborn, and some just don’t do anything. I’ve been evaluating my setup lately and recently started running DTW coco. I bought a really nice all in one water tester with an app that connects to my phone via Bluetooth. The Apera PC60-Z. It’s been great for my coco nutrient rez and my aero cloner, but I realized a few things might be off the mark. I wasn’t able to test TDS and EC until recently and before I bought the PC60-Z I was just using a shitty 10 dollar vivosun pH pen.

For starters, the cloner is in a 2x2 tent under a single 5000k Samsung f564b running at about half power on a 60 watt driver. I had it turned down lower but this article says he uses a bunch of T5s close to the plants. I’m 100% LED and I built this strip specifically for this clone tent.

So before I was setting up my rez like this — 1.5 gallons RO/distilled water, 2ml calmag, 5ml KLN, and 5ml pro-tekt. The water was around 67-70 degrees. This was before my most recent reservoir change. I read this page tonight and a lot of it made sense, so I decided to give it a shot. I might add that I’ve been lax about testing the pH in the past but I’m now doing it daily.

Advanced Aeroponic Cloning -- THE SECRETS!

In my article the The 3 Main Reasons Cloners Fail I cover those issues that cause cloning failure and help you gain predictable results. This article is about methods for producing the unbelievable clones you see PermaClone customers rep'ing on Social Media! This article is about those methods...

www.permaclone.com

I mixed up a new rez with 1.5 gallons distilled water, 1ml Power Si Bloom (yeah I blew some stimulus money on hype nutes), 2ml calmag, 1.5 grams each of floraflex b1 and b2, and then raised the pH to 6.0. TDS is around 500ppm and EC is about .8. I also raised the thermostat under the heat mat to 80, which should raise the water up to about 77.

So I liked the pics and the explanations in that article I linked above, but I’m still learning the finer points of hydroponics. I’d really like any constructive feedback/criticism that will help me improve my rooting times and success rates. Here’s the obligatory pic of the setup in question. Some of the cuts in there are very fresh and already starting to root (that’s an exceptional pheno though), and some of them have been in there for a couple weeks without even any tiny knots or calluses showing up. I try to have at least two nodes down in the mist.

View attachment 4865544

Thanks in advance!

Quick question I have noticed when people been takin clones they been cutting fan leaves back like pic above why is that? Just wondering been seeing that a lot ?

 

[Herb & Suds]

Quick question I have noticed when people been takin clones they been cutting fan leaves back like pic above why is that? Just wondering been seeing that a lot ?

To promote root growth but you can just dim lighting and accomplish the same thing

 

[doublejj]

I don't usually cut the leaves of cuttings....

 

[a2lute]

Hmm, my clones typically take 2-3 weeks to get roots, but I have no heater, is it that big of a difference? Maybe I should grab a small aquarium heater.