3 days on jack's 5-12-26 and the plants are loving it! Bye bye General Hydroponics forever

[rkymtnman]

I'm specifically talking about hydroponic applications. Thank you for the great insight. Help me out here man. I am observing a remarkable difference in both flavor, burn qualities, and the aroma of developing flowers after switching fertilizers. I switched from jack's 5-12-26 to maxi bloom. I run RO water. The jack's flowers burned clean and tasted fantastic. For lack of a better description the maxi bloom flowers just don't taste right. They also burn to a dark ash whether smoking a joint or a bowl. Never a clean gray ash finish. That's a contaminant of some kind. After doing a bit of reading it appears there is an industry problem with heavy metal contamination in technical grade phosphorous that is used in the fertilizer industry. With your insight as to how plants use and absorb fertilizer I'd like to ask you another question, because I really want to get to the bottom of this and I genuinely appreciate your assistance.

What if it's not the addition of P that's causing a nasty flavor or poor burn qualities, but rather heavy metal contamination that's piggy backing on the phosphorous in the bloom mix?

Jack's advertises no heavy metals in their fertilizer. Could this be the culprit?
Just to add a little more salt to this statement my first hydroponic flower cycle was with the GH flora series. I added kool bloom throughout flower which is loaded with phosphate. The flowers were amazingly beautiful. When I smoked the flowers it literally hurt the fillings in my teeth as if I chewed on a piece of aluminum foil. It was nearly unusable, and it burned to a hard charcoal. It literally had to be picked out of the bowl. I suspect heavy metal contamination as the culprit.

My theory is the fertilizer we use on the plants we are going to ultimately dry and smoke is more important than any of us may have realized simply due to the presence of heavy metal contamination in some fertilizers. It costs more money to test for heavy metals like jack's does. I suspect some companies take the short cut to increase profits, and as a result heavy metals are present in their fertilizers.

That jive with you?

@Rurumo database of nutes please.

 

[Fuckingatodeaso]

Harley Smith is an employee of NPK industries. Do you really feel his opinions are objective?

"Probably gonna do a side by side in flowering to test it out."

Everyone's opinions are objective. Everyone's. Even the reps at Jacks. Get information from viable sources-Actual studies, people who have operated green houses for a long long time, those that have great results, ect. Make no contentions. Test it. Preferably in a side by side where only one variable is changed. My current jacks test is based on widespread success stories yet I have made no contentions yet. Although, I'm pretty sure it will be a winner. Harley Smith is citing a European study. Is he citing it to sell me NPK phosphates? Perhaps. Nerveless the results of the study are thought provoking. Greenhouse growers using phosphates for a short period of time at a totally different time and duration than the mainstream. Like greenhouse growers making there own nutrients from dry powders. Totally different from liquid mainstream.

 

[jonnynobody]

"Probably gonna do a side by side in flowering to test it out."

Everyone's opinions are objective. Everyone's. Even the reps at Jacks. Get information from viable sources-Actual studies, people who have operated green houses for a long long time, those that have great results, ect. Make no contentions. Test it. Preferably in a side by side where only one variable is changed. My current jacks test is based on widespread success stories yet I have made no contentions yet. Although, I'm pretty sure it will be a winner. Harley Smith is citing a European study. Is he citing it to sell me NPK phosphates? Perhaps. Nerveless the results of the study are thought provoking. Greenhouse growers using phosphates for a short period of time at a totally different time and duration than the mainstream. Like greenhouse growers making there own nutrients from dry powders. Totally different from liquid mainstream.

I think the word you were looking for is subjective, not objective. You're welcome

Let me help you out here homie. Objective opinions are independent ones not provided by the company who is trying to sell you the product

Objective definition:
not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion. intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.

Independent 3rd party research conducted by people whom are not in any way connected to the company selling the product being researched is capable of producing an objective opinion. If I was selling Jonny five's 5 star top shelf nug blaster nutrients and I showed you 10 different in house research reports that prove without a doubt jonny five's 5 star top shelf nug blaster nutrients are the best thing since sliced bread, would you really trust my statement? If so, I've got a pallet of jonny five's 5 star top shelf nug blaster nutrients I'm willing sell you at a deep discount, and I've got 10 in house research reports to prove it's efficacy!

 

[PJ Diaz]

At the risk of derailing this thread too much, I heard yesterday on the GML show that HLG just finished their nute line, and release is imminent. They did show the numbers on the show, but I guess YouTube has already deleted yesterday's show because of a copyrighted image from the thumbnail icon lol. Anyway, it sounded like there is a "base" of something like 14-0-1, which I thought a bit odd. Sounds like CalNit,, but what's with the bit of K in there? Then I guess their is a "veg base" and a "flower base" that go with the "base (base? - lol)", and then a PK booster plus maybe one other supplement. Anyway, it's supposed be a LED specific nute line. I'm interested to see more details when it hits the website. You can request a sample too.

 

[Fuckingatodeaso]

I think the word you were looking for is subjective, not objective. You're welcome

You are correct. I switched those words around. Thank for the correction essay.
Just replace objective with the subjective when you read it again and you wont get subjectively derailed from the point.

 

[PJ Diaz]

You are correct. I switched those words around. Thank for the correction essay.
Just replace objective with the subjective when you read it again and you wont get subjectively derailed from the point.

It's good to know what the big words mean if you're gonna try to use them.

 

[jonnynobody]

My dirty laundry:

You are correct. I switched those words around. Thank for the correction essay.
Just replace objective with the subjective when you read it again and you wont get subjectively derailed from the point.

With my aging brain, horrible ADD, and atrocious bi-polar disorder I greatly appreciate when people keep things simple when communicating. Use the words you intend to use otherwise you risk confusing a mental retard like me

Well I got all the timers confirmed reset and back on track. Daylight savings time really fucked me up with my timers. I mean really fucked me up. Again, I'm very simple minded. It don't take much to fucker me up

I snapped some pics below my canopy to show exactly how you can stuff a fucking room wall to wall with absolutely zero access. This is a universal problem with almost all growers unless you're a rich asshole and can afford an infinite amount of space. My apologies if you're a rich asshole In any event space constraints for the garden are a bitch and it's the same bitch for all of us to some degree or another. Sure I could reduce my plant count and have a nice exterior perimeter walk, but then I harvest a lot less pot while burning the same amount of watts. What's a grower to do? Get down. I mean literally get down on the ground. I created a work space on my floor. I move around on my butt on a rolling cart that's about 4" off the ground with castors. I have 2 trash cans, a terry cloth towel bucket for cleaning, cleaning solution, replacement trash bags, siphon pump for removing water from the saucers, wax string, scissors, screw in hooks, ratchet hooks, and a hand held dust buster I got for cleaning up debris - and brother there is a lot of fucking debris. I love my dust buster. If you don't have one I highly recommend you get one. Who the hell wants to monkey with a big bulky shop vac for little bits of leaf allover the floor? Dust buster baby.

Anyhow, I feel like nobody really wants to show you this kind of thing when they show you their grow room. I wanna see all the parts the grower doesn't want me to see. Show me you're dirty laundry so I understand how it all works. Then I might be able to duplicate the same thing by learning from you, but if you never show somebody the dirty laundry they might not connect all the dots. Then you're just a gloating asshole showing off your grow if there's nothing for others to learn

 

[jonnynobody]

At the risk of derailing this thread too much, I heard yesterday on the GML show that HLG just finished their nute line, and release is imminent. They did show the numbers on the show, but I guess YouTube has already deleted yesterday's show because of a copyrighted image from the thumbnail icon lol. Anyway, it sounded like there is a "base" of something like 14-0-1, which I thought a bit odd. Sounds like CalNit,, but what's with the bit of K in there? Then I guess their is a "veg base" and a "flower base" that go with the "base (base? - lol)", and then a PK booster plus maybe one other supplement. Anyway, it's supposed be a LED specific nute line. I'm interested to see more details when it hits the website. You can request a sample too.

I would be interested in checking it out at least. I think they charge too much for their hardware, but it is the best of the best in the industry and I have no doubt their fertilizer line will be of equal quality. I'll scope it out and see what information I can find. I'm so pleased with jack's though at this point I really want for nothing. A new quality fertilizer line for growers is exciting though and welcome news. Edge out some of the shitty companies that need to be put out of business. Ahem cough cough...advanced nutrients?

 

[Applesauceisgood]

70% RH at 80F like you said is for seedlings/ early veg. not flowrering like you said.

at 70% RH in flowering (mid to late), you'd need to run at 95F, not 80F like you claimed. lol.

You're wrong. To your point about ppm - Jack's base doesn't have ideal P during certain phases and most importantly Ca to satisfy the plant when it needs it most. The micros also aren't great (boron?). If you took a tissue sample using only Jack's base, you're going to be deficient in Ca from the jump @ the ppm in Jack's. Once you're behind on Ca, there as cascading consequences for everything that follows. You aren't growing the plant to the absolute fullest potential. Can you get 90% of the way there and enjoy it? Yup. For a hobby grower is that enough? Absolutely. Go check out a grower "DJM" and what he is doing in sealed rooms with high RH. This isn't a new thing relegated to the cannabis community, you're just an ignorant dummy.

week 1 - 85f/ 75% rh (day) ; 80 f/ 70% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 2 - 85f/ 75% rh (day) ; 80 f/ 70% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 3 - 85f/ 75% rh (day) ; 80 f/ 70% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 4 - 82f/ 72% rh (day) ; 78f/ 68% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 5 - 80f/ 70%rh (day) ; 75f / 65% (night) ; 1000 ppms c02
week 6 - 80f /70%rh (day) ; 75f / 65% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 7 - 78f/68% rh (day) ; 72 f/ 62% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 8 - 75f/ 65%rh (day) ; 70f/ 60% (night) ; 0 ppms co2
week 9 - 70f /60% rh (day) ; 60f/ 50% (night) ; 0 ppm c02

Better results than you'll achieve in 10 lifetimes with you're boneheaded approach to accepting information that clashes with your tiny little world.

 

[Applesauceisgood]

Harley Smith is an employee of NPK industries. Do you really feel his opinions are objective? That's a rhetorical question
At this point I'm focused on heavy metal contaminants as the possible culprit here regarding the difference in flavor and burn qualities when using 1 brand of fertilizer versus another. I also believe a balanced fertilizer is the best approach from start to finish. If you're unsure talk to Uncle Ben over at ICMAG. Bring everything you got, because he's good

You can push high EC like you did with other lines and have a fine burn. I don't consider 1.5 EC ridiculous depending on your setup. Not sure why you ran into issues with other base nutes. Maxi line is way too low on calcium. Mg in particular is nasty in the amounts most growers push. This is a culprit for the snap, crackle, and pop. People rarely run into a real Mg def that can be fixed by throwing more magnesium sulfate at the soil. You can be Mg excess in the soil and Mg def in the leaves.

 

[Applesauceisgood]

i'm surprised you haven't called him out: he made a sly comment about your growing skills. (i guess he didn't look at your pics?)

If you're referencing me, you're a liar. I praised the guy for his skillset going the simple route. It is a waste of my precious time continuing this with a hard-headed novice that believes their ignorance is a strength.

 

[Arkos]

Please guys this thread is providing great info for people new to Jack's and even mega crop for that matter, let's keep the info coming instead of having this thread locked.

 

[Applesauceisgood]

Please guys this thread is providing great info for people new to Jack's and even mega crop for that matter, let's keep the info coming instead of having this thread locked.

I made a suggestion that intelligently adding calcium (gypsum, flowering cal-mag) pre-flip-2 weeks flower and MKP (you want the P) week 4-5 on top of Jack's base nutrient is a winning combination. I urge people to try it if you have other areas dialed in and see what it does. If that suggestion triggers you like it does rocky mountain man, don't try it and keep it simple. Extra calcium (not extra Mg) is a winner before flip and during the first weeks of flower prior to stacking. I think you will see a positive difference.

 

[jonnynobody]

I made a suggestion that intelligently adding calcium (gypsum, flowering cal-mag) pre-flip-2 weeks flower and MKP (you want the P) week 4-5 on top of Jack's base nutrient is a winning combination. I urge people to try it if you have other areas dialed in and see what it does. If that suggestion triggers you like it does rocky mountain man, don't try it and keep it simple. Extra calcium (not extra Mg) is a winner before flip and during the first weeks of flower prior to stacking. I think you will see a positive difference.

If this cycle with Jack's alone is as fantastic as my first cycle 2 years ago I may experiment with adding mkp in measured amounts to 1 plant in which I have 2 of the same strain. That way 1 plant will be my control and the other the test for which we can then determine if it made a substantial difference in either direction. GreenGene used mkp in his grows and he's the original 3-2-1 aficionado. I'm looking forward to running the experiment and reporting my results. The smoke report is the bottom line as always

 

[PJ Diaz]

I would be interested in checking it out at least. I think they charge too much for their hardware

I put together my diy hlg stuff for less than it costs to buy SF or Mars stuff tho.

 

[jonnynobody]

I put together my diy hlg stuff for less than it costs to buy SF or Mars stuff tho.

That's really the way to go for the best quality gear and pricing with gauranteed authentic components. @NukaKola has a great journal he put together showing off his DIY HLG lights. I think you just motivated me to build my next light. Nothing crazy like GreneGene's 8 bar $800 unit. I'd try something small first just to make sure I don't fry something expensive by miswiring shit those HLG boards with the blue spectrum look pretty fucking sweet. Sold out currently.

 

[jonnynobody]

Can anyone watch this and not laugh? I gotta fever and the only prescription is more cow bell baby!

 

[PJ Diaz]

That's really the way to go for the best quality gear and pricing with gauranteed authentic components. @NukaKola has a great journal he put together showing off his DIY HLG lights. I think you just motivated me to build my next light. Nothing crazy like GreneGene's 8 bar $800 unit. I'd try something small first just to make sure I don't fry something expensive by miswiring shit those HLG boards with the blue spectrum look pretty fucking sweet. Sold out currently.

I got a 315cmh a few weeks ago to work with my LEDs and have been loving it!

 

[jonnynobody]

I got a 315cmh a few weeks ago to work with my LEDs and have been loving it!

Clearly you are smarter than me I poorly researched, planned, and executed a light upgrade for a veg nursery recently. For some reason I never bought one and I have no good reason why. The performance is stellar and the pricetag at checkout is more than reasonable compared to new LED tech. CMH would have been half the cost and less power consumed. I like my 110w qb's but I do not like that I spent another $187 on two 100w COB's to amplify the sunshine in a 3500k spectrum whereas my qb's are all 4000k. Total price tag for my poor planning: roughly $365 between the 2 qb's and 2 COB's.

I want to emphasize that I love my lights. However if I researched and planned more efficiently I would have a 315w CMH for nearly half the cost and operating at nearly 100w less power. Excellent choice on lighting sir. I need to get my hands on one of those puppies

 

[PJ Diaz]

Clearly you are smarter than me I poorly researched, planned, and executed a light upgrade for a veg nursery recently. For some reason I never bought one and I have no good reason why. The performance is stellar and the pricetag at checkout is more than reasonable compared to new LED tech. CMH would have been half the cost and less power consumed. I like my 110w qb's but I do not like that I spent another $187 on two 100w COB's to amplify the sunshine in a 3500k spectrum whereas my qb's are all 4000k. Total price tag for my poor planning: roughly $365 between the 2 qb's and 2 COB's.

I want to emphasize that I love my lights. However if I researched and planned more efficiently I would have a 315w CMH for nearly half the cost and operating at nearly 100w less power. Excellent choice on lighting sir. I need to get my hands on one of those puppies

I'm not sure smarts had a whole lot to do with it really, just more kinda the way things fell together. As a former HPS/HID grower I finally switched over to LED about a year ago with 4 QB 96's to replace a 600watt HPS. Then I added 2 more QB96's for more even coverage. Everything was great, but then winter came and so did the sold. I was struggling with temps for LED during the winter, so put in my old 400w mag ballast with an old school Philips 400w retro-white cmh lamp. I thought about just adding a heater, but I hate spending on watts with no photon outputs, and never had to worry about such a thing in 10 years of HID growing. It kinda worked ok, but I really didn't want 400watts of cmh, so decided to break down and get the 315. Once it came in I was pleased to see that even tho the light drew 20% less power than the 400w, it produced 10% more lux. My plants seem super happy with the light and IR from the cmh along with the high efficiency of the leds. I'm running my QB's really low now, @ just 50watts each (6 boards), so I'm right around 300 watts total LED plus the 315cmh. It's way more light, better spectrum, and more even coverage that I ever had from a 600w HPS, and using basically the exact same power.