HippieDudeRon
Well-Known Member
Well you have McCree...look at the raw RQE values and can see that. It's been there since 1972.
Or now days you have BPAR and I already wrote about that in my initial post. 380-780nm.
Led Temps - Air vs Leaf Surface
- Thread starter ilovereggae
- Start date
Or now days you have BPAR and I already wrote about that in my initial post. 380-780nm.
Montanan
Member
DUDE... Most wouldnt call that...
I am looking at something you posted this morning to my statement/question/ruminations.. from yesterday, and as I was looking through
your posts/responses.. I dont know what to call all this stuff, I'm a dinosaur.. Anyway, I scan when I read, one glance at that entire
page or your comments to posts, reductio ad absurdum leaped out... Sweet... Ive always favored that method of
delivery to the low tide that seem to surround me in growing number. They seldom get it, but as I tell anyone that thinks I'm not funny, my humor is just for me. To the dude I say, THANK YOU.. for being you.
I am here soaking up the knowledge/opinions/ridiculous upperclassmanships and dick measuring, so I can collate the relevant data and succeed with my project/produce a result. To this and all endeavors I apply, Fortuna Eruditis Favet.
One of my favorites. I sincerely hope you can talk me through my dilemma to a successful conclusion.. Sincerely, River.
PS, as an OCD class A personality... AKA, crazy person.. I couldnt remember who coined the phrase so google.. right? Coined by Louis Pasteur
but co opted by john wick.. WHAT? Latin is messy, its like many languages that use one word for a several meanings, its all
based on context. So I digress by saying mine is the prepared mind version. I had to look up john wick.. Dammit, and now I have
to watch the movie... google, its a blessing and a curse.
nachooo
Well-Known Member
I am using this Arcadia lamp for infrared and heating purposes...day and night
It can be dimmed..it does not interfere with flowering photoperiod at night..
Much more efficient than ceramic black bulbs..but much more expensive
The shape type of the emission due to the lamp form is not perfect...but ..it can be used...
https://www.arcadiareptile.com/heating/heat-projector/
It can be dimmed..it does not interfere with flowering photoperiod at night..
Much more efficient than ceramic black bulbs..but much more expensive
The shape type of the emission due to the lamp form is not perfect...but ..it can be used...
https://www.arcadiareptile.com/heating/heat-projector/
Montanan
Member
nachooo
Well-Known Member
I use a DIY lamp..3500 K samsung, 660 osram, 730 osram, UVA and blue leds , UVB leds ..5 independent channels.. Yes I have spectrometer .Yes I have temp gun,
I am using this kind of spectrum now, too high in blues and far red ..but I am just experimenting..
and also this..
Last edited:
Montanan
Member
I cant tellya how bad I want a spectrometer.. But the $$ are crazy high. I do plan to build one eventually, DIY sensor from a dig cam and an open source platform for pc. But now I am all about lights... I want to get them here so I can move on to all the other countless tasks ahead.
While I have you, what temp gun are you using, and are you happy with it? How are you DIYing your light? I watched how they make the boards, that was interesting, so you buy a board and cannibalize it to add the leds you want? Or buy board with all the white color flavor
and then pull some chips and put in your reds or blues?
Lights.. I am old dog, but I need to know how this led stuff works so I have been reading, watching, and listening. I look at specs for a board, linear lighting module, not even sure the proper term for that, and the specs are... shit, over my head. Old bench tech, I remember 70's and 80's tech, so the construction of this I get. But those specs. Let me take a stab, forward voltage, lets say 10 volts, is what the led calls for to fire. anything below the threashold and no led output. so you give it ten, regulated by the driver and now you have light, how much light is the function of current through the led. I see test currents, and max currents, which I assume will chew up the chip prematurly mostly do to the heat produced within the chip, so driving leds is a bit of a balancing act. To keep the heat down in an enlclosed grow space, running chips at 50~75% amperage is the deal. so whatever you want for total wattage, say.. Ummm.. 500 watts, would take 1000 possible chip watts to accomplish? So to keep from having 100' of linear strips to accomplish what 50' would do, you need to have higher wattage leds? How am I doing?? So at 50% power no heat sink and all the little critters are glowing and happy, while I just want to get out my buggy whip and beat them into compliance. So I add a heat sink.. formula for heat dissapation I have, thats doable, but now I have a shitload of marking, drilling and tapping for the screws to hold those boards on the strips.. OK, if I have to.. Then I crank up a board thats says its comfortable at 25w, to 50w or 500ma to 1amp and now we are cooking.. right? OR---> do I seek out a board that at 50% puts out 50w/100w? Is there such an animal?
Now I see myself in the cob range.. fairly big ones I think to cut down all that pesky mounting bullshit. augmenting with some fancy hi output reds and ir. Am I tracking?? I was all set to use the Samsung horticulture boards with a few red chips in them, but they were kinda spendy, not bad, I was ready to pull the trigger, and while taking one last spin around the dance floor, I found CRI.. holy cow.. whats that? Back to the specs on the boards and everything is 80. So I started looking for 90's, thats when I found, what seemed to be the holy grail.. there were angels singing, birds chirping and dogs howling..BAM.. the spectrum charts where so fat. Then a guy here says screw the fat spectrum. It doesnt really mean anything. He said it better, and used some simplified math as an example, so I took it to heart, and went out with question for google that had never occurred to me to ask, "why dont I want 95CRI leds for growing?" Havent heard back from him. After spending 2 solid weeks reading and listening to growers and educators talk about light and plants, I figure outside is best.. right? Outside they get the full monty. So if I give them the the fattest, spectrum from 280~800nm I can, proportionately in outdoor percentages matching the sun, the plant can take what it wants and be happy. Is this just all wrong? I spent some time hanging out with my best friend in humbolt, they were outdoor growers. They did take a stab at indoor grow with hps, but that was in the 70's. We didnt know shit about all this stuff. But those plants filled up his garage with some skank buds. Skank in the best of ways.
Those bulbs, I'm sure were a pale imitation of whats out there now, and the spectrums of HPS/MH/CMH fall short, spectrum wise of these 98cri leds. So if the spectrogram for the cmh, the fattest one I could find, falls short of the 98cri led, what does that mean? I mean REALLY??
If that guy is right, and the fat spectrum of the 98cri cutter board wont grow weed as good and tight as the cmh with less of most everything, then what am I doing? Just go buy a bulb reflector and ballast and forget all this shit..right? But I live in the bush, and if I have an equipment failure with a bulb or ballast, I am screwed. And if i buy 2 of everything I am in the shit for $$. If I go led, I can break the total lighting into segments all powered seperatly, and if failure occurs I can replace a driver as I will buy a couple extras just for that fail, and if some leds go out, who cares. When I pull the trigger I plan to get a handfull of all the chips on those boards just for repairs.. My grow light spare tire if you will.
I will attempt to post a couple of these here. The last time they came out all fuzzy so I must be doing something wrong. Sorry this was so long. And I sincerely thank anyone with the fortitude, and/or the time to read this. I hope it makes sense to someone as I need answers.
Being new to all this posting stuff, I think this topic is in the wrong zone. I was attempting to reach a fella that answered me yesterday.
Attachments
Last edited:
Montanan
Member
You got me thinkin.. So the wife says she wants to know how.. Shes a handful. Anyway.. you said too much red. So I just looked at what we get from the sun, proportionally on a sunny day and found charts that are basically all the same, here are 2.
And all these grow light makers are telling us what the plant wants, I think for the most part they are building shit, and then saying they struck oil, to the extent the results of a plants need are what they just built. First you had the McCree curve, then the new one, cant remember that guy, as time passes, tech gets better, what plants want keeps changing, even though the plants dont know it... Physics taught me some rules I find to be immutable, I believe in the infinity of the large, the infinity of the small, and that anything thought of now or later, is possible.
So show these to your plants and ask them in low tones...how much of this they want. :~}
Attachments
Montanan
Member
another question, your spectrometer only sees to 380? Is there a meter like this that reads UV? I would think a spectrometer should
be able to read beyond visible light at both ends unless the sensor is different. And if so, can you add one?
OK, I'm done. thanks. Sorry to be a bother.
nachooo
Well-Known Member
You can grow perfectly with only with warm white lights...
I make my own lights as do lot of people here...combining different leds and drivers. Each person can choosee its own recipes... Explaining you how to build a light is too long. You have all the information in this forum.
I have a shitty temp gun so I do not recommend that one...
Dont overthink.. you only need white lights...if you need more efficiency...use them at less amperage..if you want to play with plant morphology and other things..add other waves of light..like far red.. uva etc... just learn how plants use light..also some photobiology.
I am also old...my first indoor was in the last eighties...now all is much more easy...so do not complicate yourself...you have nice and cheap lamps everywhere that can give you excelents results...CRI is not as important...a CRI 80 lamp can give great crops..
Is better to learn basic plant biology first..and understand well how temps , humidity and CO2 works...and after that...came the lights...the best light in market can give bad results if you dont have temp and humidity controlled...
Most spectrometers only read until 380nm..if you want a good one wih more UVA-B capabilities-..it will cost you more than 3000 $ I guess...check in google.
Mimicking the sunlight is the goal of most of us..but sadly..the gaps in the spectrum of a warm white led, only can be fulled by leds that are less efficient...thats all... Use warm light..fill the gaps as you can...In the future the white leds will include more wavelenghts with more efficiency so mono leds will be no need to add ..except probably far red in end of day treatment.
Montanan
Member
Do you ever heatgun off a few chips and replace with some other color?
Thanks for you time, I appreciate.
@Montanan Focus on growing the plants first, then if you want to become an expert in LED technology, do it in your spare time. Or do it the other way around. But just know that the two are not a mutual relationship.
So many people like you are focusing on light chips or bulbs and not on growing plants. Some of the best gardeners in the world know nothing about light bulbs other than how to change one in their house when it goes out.
At the point when your plants are growing to optimum health, lush vigorous and fat, like little Amazonian beasts... then and only then will the incremental differences between various light fixtures make a difference. A good grower with lush plants in a good environment with a half decent LED will outgrow and outyield someone whose plants are stunted under the highest spec fixture on the market. Every single time. And there are a lot of the latter out there.
I see so many people with all different gadgets and meters and fucking a million different light "recipes" and their plants are average at best. Get your basic shit sorted first because that'll have the biggest effect on what you grow. No LED or nutrient or any other thing on the market will make as big an impact on your grow as your ability to keep a good environment and feed and water your plants the right amount.
So many people like you are focusing on light chips or bulbs and not on growing plants. Some of the best gardeners in the world know nothing about light bulbs other than how to change one in their house when it goes out.
At the point when your plants are growing to optimum health, lush vigorous and fat, like little Amazonian beasts... then and only then will the incremental differences between various light fixtures make a difference. A good grower with lush plants in a good environment with a half decent LED will outgrow and outyield someone whose plants are stunted under the highest spec fixture on the market. Every single time. And there are a lot of the latter out there.
I see so many people with all different gadgets and meters and fucking a million different light "recipes" and their plants are average at best. Get your basic shit sorted first because that'll have the biggest effect on what you grow. No LED or nutrient or any other thing on the market will make as big an impact on your grow as your ability to keep a good environment and feed and water your plants the right amount.
nachooo
Well-Known Member
Yes..is easy with soldering paste.
nachooo
Well-Known Member
So true...
Leaf temps are lower than ambient because the plant is transpiring and releasing water vapor through the Stomata which lowers the temperature at the leaf surface. VPD is not computed from the leaf temp alone, it is from both the leaf temp and ambient temp.
It is confusing to me what happens to plants under LEDs. I have some pretty high Blue and far red lights in veg and my plants react to them completely different than typical HIDs. It has been hard to dial things in, but I've found raising the temp to 83f and RH to 70 makes all the difference, they are noticeably healthier and grow faster under these conditions but I cannot figure out why.
Last edited:
Norml56
Well-Known Member
I don't think I could run my RH that high, my walls would be dripping.
ComfortCreator
Well-Known Member
You are correct but missing the main point...the difference.
Assume everything you wrote is correct. I.e. transpiration causes some difference between ambient and leaf temps. In addition to this, the difference in spectrums causes a significant increase in that disparity. Typically from 3 to 5f more. So LED uses a higher ambient temp in order to account for not having that portion of the spectrum.
So when I run at 80f with LEDs, I think of it as being like running 76f with HIDs. And on a typical VPD chart, I would use leaf temps, not ambient. That help?
ComfortCreator
Well-Known Member
At 70% outside walls in a cold climate do exactly that.
getogrow
Well-Known Member
Im not sure if you would call that "ambient" or leaf temp ? i would call that leaf temp. Your leaf temp is about 27....thats about all i can tell you abuot vpd.