Help: Feed, Transplant, or Let it be for now?

[parrajara]

I am in a bit of a predicament right now, and I have been looking for an answer but have been unable to find one. I hope you guys can help me out.

I apologize in advance, because my thread will have a lot of questions.... So please don't continue reading if you don't want to carefully understand my situation, I am not looking for half assed answers from people that only read the first two sentences of my issue. I understand why you would not care, no obligation here!

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I have 2 plants (30 days since they popped their heads out of the soil) that are really stunned. For simplicity purposes, the bigger plant is plant A and the smaller plant is Plant B. The good news is that hey are photoperiods, so I can fix them.

Plant B is stunned mostly due to improper watering technique and plant A mostly due to lackluster drainage/aeration. The drainage/aeration isn't absolutely critical, but it definitely could be better. I know this because I watered Plant A 4 days ago and it is still not fully dry.
Last time I watered Plant A, the top of the soil was dry after 4 days, but perhaps it was still moist lower in the soil, so when I watered it again it compacted and dampened the soil even more. That's my hypothesis. I believe this because the plant is bigger now, and logically would consume equal or more water. Since it is more moist this time around after the same period of time (4 days after watering), that is why I believe my soil/perlite mix is not as efficient in Plant A as Plant B.

Now that you understand that situation, this is where I am confused about a couple of topics:

TOPIC 1: Nutrients/Top Feeding

1) The nutrients in Happy Frog soil are supposed to last 30 days, and the cannabis seed itself has 2 weeks of nutrients... so in theory, it should be 6 weeks before top feeding? However, some people suggest you can start feeding after 2 weeks.
2) How does a stunned plant change the nutrient schedule? For example, my plant is 30 days old but in the body of a 10-14 day old plant (hypothetical).

• Would my plant have used up 2 weeks of happy frog, or all 4 weeks already - even if it hasn't grown to the size that a 30 day old plant would grow to?
• Would it have only used its 2 weeks worth of nutrients, and it still has 4 weeks of happy frog nutrients left?

3) How can you tell if your soil has run out of nutrients? Do you have to wait for it to start showing deficiencies and than take your best guess as to which deficiency it is? There are ways to tell if it is underwatered or overwatered, is there an indication like these for when soil needs fertilizer?

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TOPIC 2: Transplant, Feed, Let it be

I am using slow releasing organic fertilizers: Gaia 4-4-4 All Purpose Fertilizer, Gaia 2-8-4 Power Bloom, and Gaia 2-0-0 EWC.

So since I don't know how to interpret the situation with my soil and it's nutrient availability, I am in a predicament...

1) Do I leave Plant A in it's current pot (0.57 gallon/2.17 Liter) where the soil does not have great, but not absolutely critically damaging soil? As the plant grows and the roots grow, they will consume more water and perhaps that issue will solve itself over time? I suspect my plant's roots have not formed a solid enough base to transplant to a 5 gallon pot.

• If I do leave it in it's current pot. Should I start adding some fertilizer mix or not? Quarter of the suggested dose.

2) Should I just transplant it now to the 5 gallon (final) fabric pot? I was thinking a mix of 70% Fox Farm Ocean Forest and 30% perlite. Lots of questions here....
NOTE: Transplant would have to happen after this watering, as I need to let the plants recover from the FIM.

• I guess I would not need to fertilize the plant since FFOF has nutrients already? What if the plant is being transplanted to FFOF now that is older and can handle more nutrients? Would it still be too hot, or do people restrain from amending FFOF because they use the soil for young seedlings too?
• Should I layer it instead? Bottom 2/3rds use the mix mentioned above, but the top 1/3rd brand new happy frog soil with perlite to ease the plant in?
• If I don't layer it and go with all FFOF; should I amend it near the bottom 3rd of the pot? Hoping that when the roots reach there it's flowering time.
  • I was considering amending the FFOF and letting it cook for a couple of weeks at least, but I did quite a bit of research and it seeems like general consensus is that it would be too hot if I amend it. It's best just to top feed it after a month? Not sure if this would apply if I just want to amend the bottom 3rd.

3) Should I just let it be? Don't fertilize it, don't transplant it? Wait for it to grow more (even if slow) and transplant later on?

• If you suggest this. How long would you wait? Also, could you also comment on what you think about what to do when transplanting? Basically the same bullet points/questions I posed in question 2 above.

I just FIMmed them today. Plant A on the 6th node, Plant B on the 4th node. Both plant are the same age, but Plant B was affected more by the poor watering technique, amongst other things.....(spilled the pot over 3x, don't ask )

It is worth mentioning that Plant B is drying out faster than Plant A now, and I can feel the noticeable difference in the soil compaction. This is why I am sure it is a drainage issue on Plant A. I guess my whole thread is MOSTLY tailored for Plant A, but partially for Plant B. What I mean by this is, my small plant won't be transplanted yet as it is not bad with drainage.... but should I fertilize it?

All other questions on my thread definitely apply to the big plant.

If I confused you, please let me know... I'm sorry. I tried to proof read and make sure everything made sense from an outsiders perspective. Thank you all in advance!

 

[cannabineer]

I am in a bit of a predicament right now, and I have been looking for an answer but have been unable to find one. I hope you guys can help me out.

I apologize in advance, because my thread will have a lot of questions.... So please don't continue reading if you don't want to carefully understand my situation, I am not looking for half assed answers from people that only read the first two sentences of my issue. I understand why you would not care, no obligation here!

-------------------------

I have 2 plants (30 days since they popped their heads out of the soil) that are really stunned. For simplicity purposes, the bigger plant is plant A and the smaller plant is Plant B. The good news is that hey are photoperiods, so I can fix them.

Plant B is stunned mostly due to improper watering technique and plant A mostly due to lackluster drainage/aeration. The drainage/aeration isn't absolutely critical, but it definitely could be better. I know this because I watered Plant A 4 days ago and it is still not fully dry.
Last time I watered Plant A, the top of the soil was dry after 4 days, but perhaps it was still moist lower in the soil, so when I watered it again it compacted and dampened the soil even more. That's my hypothesis. I believe this because the plant is bigger now, and logically would consume equal or more water. Since it is more moist this time around after the same period of time (4 days after watering), that is why I believe my soil/perlite mix is not as efficient in Plant A as Plant B.

Now that you understand that situation, this is where I am confused about a couple of topics:

TOPIC 1: Nutrients/Top Feeding

1) The nutrients in Happy Frog soil are supposed to last 30 days, and the cannabis seed itself has 2 weeks of nutrients... so in theory, it should be 6 weeks before top feeding? However, some people suggest you can start feeding after 2 weeks.
2) How does a stunned plant change the nutrient schedule? For example, my plant is 30 days old but in the body of a 10-14 day old plant (hypothetical).

• Would my plant have used up 2 weeks of happy frog, or all 4 weeks already - even if it hasn't grown to the size that a 30 day old plant would grow to?
• Would it have only used its 2 weeks worth of nutrients, and it still has 4 weeks of happy frog nutrients left?

3) How can you tell if your soil has run out of nutrients? Do you have to wait for it to start showing deficiencies and than take your best guess as to which deficiency it is? There are ways to tell if it is underwatered or overwatered, is there an indication like these for when soil needs fertilizer?

--------------

TOPIC 2: Transplant, Feed, Let it be

I am using slow releasing organic fertilizers: Gaia 4-4-4 All Purpose Fertilizer, Gaia 2-8-4 Power Bloom, and Gaia 2-0-0 EWC.

So since I don't know how to interpret the situation with my soil and it's nutrient availability, I am in a predicament...

1) Do I leave Plant A in it's current pot (0.57 gallon/2.17 Liter) where the soil does not have great, but not absolutely critically damaging soil? As the plant grows and the roots grow, they will consume more water and perhaps that issue will solve itself over time? I suspect my plant's roots have not formed a solid enough base to transplant to a 5 gallon pot.

• If I do leave it in it's current pot. Should I start adding some fertilizer mix or not? Quarter of the suggested dose.

2) Should I just transplant it now to the 5 gallon (final) fabric pot? I was thinking a mix of 70% Fox Farm Ocean Forest and 30% perlite. Lots of questions here....
NOTE: Transplant would have to happen after this watering, as I need to let the plants recover from the FIM.

• I guess I would not need to fertilize the plant since FFOF has nutrients already? What if the plant is being transplanted to FFOF now that is older and can handle more nutrients? Would it still be too hot, or do people restrain from amending FFOF because they use the soil for young seedlings too?
• Should I layer it instead? Bottom 2/3rds use the mix mentioned above, but the top 1/3rd brand new happy frog soil with perlite to ease the plant in?
• If I don't layer it and go with all FFOF; should I amend it near the bottom 3rd of the pot? Hoping that when the roots reach there it's flowering time.
  • I was considering amending the FFOF and letting it cook for a couple of weeks at least, but I did quite a bit of research and it seeems like general consensus is that it would be too hot if I amend it. It's best just to top feed it after a month? Not sure if this would apply if I just want to amend the bottom 3rd.

3) Should I just let it be? Don't fertilize it, don't transplant it? Wait for it to grow more (even if slow) and transplant later on?

• If you suggest this. How long would you wait? Also, could you also comment on what you think about what to do when transplanting? Basically the same bullet points/questions I posed in question 2 above.

I just FIMmed them today. Plant A on the 6th node, Plant B on the 4th node. Both plant are the same age, but Plant B was affected more by the poor watering technique, amongst other things.....(spilled the pot over 3x, don't ask )

It is worth mentioning that Plant B is drying out faster than Plant A now, and I can feel the noticeable difference in the soil compaction. This is why I am sure it is a drainage issue on Plant A. I guess my whole thread is MOSTLY tailored for Plant A, but partially for Plant B. What I mean by this is, my small plant won't be transplanted yet as it is not bad with drainage.... but should I fertilize it?

All other questions on my thread definitely apply to the big plant.

If I confused you, please let me know... I'm sorry. I tried to proof read and make sure everything made sense from an outsiders perspective. Thank you all in advance!View attachment 4775523View attachment 4775522View attachment 4775522View attachment 4775523

I ran Happy Frog 9 years ago, and for maybe 75 days the plants grew well with only water.

Deficiency signs were sudden and multiaxis. I then treated it as “drain to waste” with GH 4-part nutrient. This rescued my grow, and I got a good yield of tasty smoke.

I think you’re supplementing too soon.

 

[parrajara]

I ran Happy Frog 9 years ago, and for maybe 75 days the plants grew well with only water.

Deficiency signs were sudden and multiaxis. I then treated it as “drain to waste” with GH 4-part nutrient. This rescued my grow, and I got a good yield of tasty smoke.

I think you’re supplementing too soon.

Hey Cannabineer, I appreciate you stopping by. I don't think you read my thread carefully, or I did a poor job constructing it. I have not supplemented yet, I am more so looking to understand some specific things about supplementing - which I laid out point by point in my thread.

 

[cannabineer]

Hey Cannabineer, I appreciate you stopping by. I don't think you read my thread carefully, or I did a poor job constructing it. I have not supplemented yet, I am more so looking to understand some specific things about supplementing - which I laid out point by point in my thread.

I was thrown by this:

“I am using (3Gaia products) ... “

I admit to not having read as closely as you asked people to do. I’m a bit whacked right now.

All I can tell you is my experience. It hinges on how much the 2011 formula matches the one being sold now.

I have no useful insight on why plants A and B should be responding differently, unless this is a pheno issue and not an environment issue.

Any case ... mazel tov

 

[parrajara]

I was thrown by this:

“I am using (3Gaia products) ... “

I admit to not having read as closely as you asked people to do. I’m a bit whacked right now.

All I can tell you is my experience. It hinges on how much the 2011 formula matches the one being sold now.

I have no useful insight on why plants A and B should be responding differently, unless this is a pheno issue and not an environment issue.

Any case ... mazel tov

Thank you!

I doubt I will receive an answer as my questions are many and specific, but worth the try.

 

[cannabineer]

Thank you!

I doubt I will receive an answer as my questions are many and specific, but worth the try.

It is sort of a “try, observe, learn” trajectory.

As a general tactic, I suggest waiting to see a distinct deficiency. Than my first go/to would be a nitrogen-containing cal-mag.

 

[Northwood]

I have 2 plants (30 days since they popped their heads out of the soil) that are really stunned.

If you're an experienced grower, these might be genetic "runts". It would be very rare to get 2 out of 2 seeds like that, but once I grew 7 plants and only 1 was female. Dice is like that. Lol

But they look droopy and lacking of turgor pressure, especially plant A. That means either drowning the roots in water, not enough water, too many soluble nutrients or a bad environment without airflow or adequate lighting. Or they could be just genetic runts. You'll need to figure that out.

 

[parrajara]

If you're an experienced grower, these might be genetic "runts". It would be very rare to get 2 out of 2 seeds like that, but once I grew 7 plants and only 1 was female. Dice is like that. Lol

But they look droopy and lacking of turgor pressure, especially plant A. That means either drowning the roots in water, not enough water, too many soluble nutrients or a bad environment without airflow or adequate lighting. Or they could be just genetic runts. You'll need to figure that out.

Right now they are droopy because they need water. I will be watering them tonight. What I am unsure about is:
1) Whether leaving them in their current conditions is okay, as they are not horrible but not great, and as the plants grow they will have more roots to help consume more water. Or if transplanting them right now would be better.
2) With all the different opinions about adding fertilizer to HF/FFOF soils before their predetermined "end of nutrient" life. A.k.a., 1 month after planting, I am unsure which to believe/which is best.

 

[Northwood]

Right now they are droopy because they need water. I will be watering them tonight. What I am unsure about is:
1) Whether leaving them in their current conditions is okay, as they are not horrible but not great, and as the plants grow they will have more roots to help consume more water. Or if transplanting them right now would be better.
2) With all the different opinions about adding fertilizer to HF/FFOF soils before their predetermined "end of nutrient" life. A.k.a., 1 month after planting, I am unsure which to believe/which is best.

You wait until your plants are visibly droopy before giving them water? Just no. Not with any plant. There is no need to torture your poor girl right now. What if it were you chained up in that pot begging for water? So now we know why your plants are 15 days or so behind. Fixing that would be a good thing.

So I'm guessing your grow style is a kind of a modified hydro but organic soil one time grow? You want to feed this available nutrients regularly as it grows once all are used up in one month from now, or one month ago? lol

 

[MustangStudFarm]

Right now they are droopy because they need water. I will be watering them tonight. What I am unsure about is:
1) Whether leaving them in their current conditions is okay, as they are not horrible but not great, and as the plants grow they will have more roots to help consume more water. Or if transplanting them right now would be better.
2) With all the different opinions about adding fertilizer to HF/FFOF soils before their predetermined "end of nutrient" life. A.k.a., 1 month after planting, I am unsure which to believe/which is best.

High sodium will make your plants look thirsty when they are perfectly watered. Were you heavy handed on the kelp in this mix?

 

[parrajara]

You wait until your plants are visibly droopy before giving them water? Just no. Not with any plant. There is no need to torture your poor girl right now. What if it were you chained up in that pot begging for water? So now we know why your plants are 15 days or so behind. Fixing that would be a good thing.

So I'm guessing your grow style is a kind of a modified hydro but organic soil one time grow? You want to feed this available nutrients regularly as it grows once all are used up in one month from now, or one month ago? lol

No, letting the leaves droop is not ideal. But the soil wasn't dry yet, so I made the executive decision of waiting a bit longer. I picked the "lesser harm".

A little update, I watered them and as expected they responded really well to it. However, this isn't my question. I posed my questions all in the OP and I think everyone is having a hard time understanding them, or I made it too confusing for everyone.

I'll answer my own questions...
1) I'm not going to feed them
2) I will leave them in the current pot until they recover from FIMming
3) I will transplant to FFOF after they recover & grow some more - likely in two weeks
4) I will not amend FFOF, and I will wait 3-4 weeks before top feeding.

Maybe this will help someone in the future that has the same issues as me, and actually carefully reads my thread to understand it. Most people skim through and provide insight that is inapplicable, which ends up being a waste of time for everyone involved; aka. the reader and the writer.

 

[Northwood]

No, letting the leaves droop is not ideal. But the soil wasn't dry yet, so I made the executive decision of waiting a bit longer. I picked the "lesser harm".

A little update, I watered them and as expected they responded really well to it. However, this isn't my question. I posed my questions all in the OP and I think everyone is having a hard time understanding them, or I made it too confusing for everyone.

I'm pretty sure I understood your OP. However my second post was a response to this that you mentioned later:

Right now they are droopy because they need water.

I hope that clarifies things somewhat for you. Since it appears you know the causes of your issues and can answer your own questions anyway, perhaps it might have been better to post your answers as well in the OP to save people from responding?

 

[parrajara]

I'm pretty sure I understood your OP. However my second post was a response to this that you mentioned later:

I hope that clarifies things somewhat for you. Since it appears you know the causes of your issues and can answer your own questions anyway, perhaps it might have been better to post your answers as well in the OP to save people from responding?

Good idea, thank you Northwood!

Essentially, I was unsure what would be more harmful, to leave them in the soil they are currently in or to transplant them before they are ready. And I wasn't (still am not entirely) sure about the implications of my stunned growth & nutrient availability in the soil.

EDIT: Looks like the "edit" button is no longer available in the OP... so I can't update :/

 

[parrajara]

For me, all this information is something new and very interesting.

Glad to hear that! Hope it helps you