Aussie High Lights – we're official

Scuzzman

Well-Known Member
grams per watt = GLA lights hands-down, quality and quantity - have used a lot of lights (led) these GLA led lights are the bees knees- if your concerned about $$$ dont grow - if your growing to make coin sell another 1-2 oz to pay for a light to produce quality product no brainier.
GLA will go the extra mile to help not like alot of other companies that say say crap for a sale or companies that bring out new lights every few months to try and corner the market waste of time just spin doctors that dribble crap about how good they are (or not)-
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
Any plans for a distributor in the EU? I'd be happy to order from the UK but God knows what the situation will be next year.
DIYLEDUK is our distributor in the UK and Europe: https://diyleduk.com/collections/high-light-diy-led-board-kits

@Frank Cannon has just completed a full grow of the new High Light 420 bords vs the old High Red boards with supplemental UVB (6% Arcadia reptile bulbs). As mentioned, the High Light 420s finished five days earlier on an 8-week strain with 18% more yield. Frank has saved us some samples which we will have THC tested to see how the new 420 UVA lights compare to the UVB reptile bulbs.

GrowOff.jpg
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
The thc results will be very interesting. Did you see Valoyas 2020 presentation of its latest research? In their testing the addition of far red reduced the thc content, cancelling out the gains from uv.
No I haven't seen that presentation. We've done some THC testing ourselves and have seen increases with the addition of near-UV (400-420nm) in our original boards, and they already have almost 5% Far Red – which is much higher than most other white phosphor-based LED grow lights.

The new High Light 420 boards have twice as much UV/near-UV (380-430nm = 5%) and twice as much Far Red (just over 9%), so the next round of testing will be interesting. @Frank Cannon reckons the quality is better, but that's subjective. The proof will be in the testing.
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
The thc results will be very interesting. Did you see Valoyas 2020 presentation of its latest research? In their testing the addition of far red reduced the thc content, cancelling out the gains from uv.
I watched the webinar and I also did a little bit of research afterwards. We need to clarify that Valoya did not test THC levels in the UV vs Far Red experiments – only CBD. Perhaps their THC results were not what they had hoped for. I would expect that if they were, they would have published them. It is even stranger to me as most growers are more interested in THC levels than CBD. Or they are at least interested in both.

It's also interesting that the figures below do not add up. Simple maths says the Blue:Green ratios are incorrect and so are the Red:Far Red ratios. For example 39.7% Red to 3.8% Far Red is a ratio of 10.4 (not 12.3) for the Control, whilst the UVA + FR ratio is actually 9.1 (not 8.2). The UVA+ ratio is correct. Looking at the Blue:Green ratios, they are correct for the Control, but not for the UVA+ and UVA/FR+ lights.

Sloppy maths is sloppy science. If basic ratios can't be calculated correctly, then who knows what else is wrong? I'm not going to pick holes in every chart but simply point out that there appear to be quite a few mistakes in the presentation that may cast doubt on the numbers.

I also want to point out that even though the UVA/FR+ LED had 385nm diodes compared to the Control LED having 405nm, the Control had significantly more cannabinoids. This is attributed to lower levels of Far Red light – even though the R:FR ratios are quite close (10.4 vs 9.1). It would have been more interesting to me to see the same levels of Far Red light where only the UVA is changed from 405nm to 385nm – that would tell us if indeed 385nm is better than 405nm because this experiment is inconclusive in that respect. In fact, it appears to confirm our belief that 405nm is just as good as UVA in increasing cannabinoid levels, as that's what the Valoya experiments showed.

Screen Shot 2020-12-21 at 11.48.19 pm.png


I also want to mention that the Valoya experiment appears to contradict what outdoor growers have found, which is that THC and terpene levels in outdoor plants (when grown properly) can actually be higher than those grown indoors under lights. Here is one reference for that statement and there are others online. https://weedmaps.com/news/2017/01/indoor-vs-outdoor-weed-a-visual-guide/


Screen Shot 2020-12-22 at 12.01.30 am.png

Sunlight has a very low Red:Far Red ratio in the region of 1.4. That ratio varies at different times of day and season, but it is still a very low figure compared to indoor lighting. Even HPS has a R:FR ratio of around 2.8-3, which is twice as much R:FR as sunlight.

To be fair there are other experiments that have been done that do agree with the Valoya presentation. One of them is here: https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/489030

The highest THC percentages came from plants with the lowest amount of Far Red (higher R:FR ratio). The LED lights that were used in the above experiment also happend to be supplied by Valoya!

One phenomenon that may be happening is that in all the research we have read there seems to be a trade-off between yield and cannabinoid levels. That is to say that two plants of the same strain grown under different lights can have different yields and cannabinoid levels, but in many cases higher yields lead to lower cannabinoid levels and vice versa. It is almost as if the plant produces the same total amount of cannabinoids and only the yield changes. If you have higher yields with the same cannabinoid content, then the percentage of cannabinoids per biomass will be lower. This has been observed many times but I still can't say whether there is a linear correlation between the two.

If anything we have noticed that LED tends to produce higher cannabinoid levels and almost the same yield as HPS. HPS is very hard to beat for overal yield. LED can easily beat HPS on a yield per watts basis but when the grow area and conditions are the same, HPS can rival or beat LED for total yield even though it uses more power. I suspect this may have to do with HPS producing more stem weight in each flower compared to LED, as LED flowers are nearly always more compact and higher in cannabinoids.

As for the rest of the presentation, I don't have any real issue with it as it reinforces what we have said all along, that a small amount of UVA/near-UV can have quite a large effect on cannabinoid production compared to standard white phosphor LEDs that contain almost no light below 430nm.
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
I think it also might be worth mentioning that Far Red really does reduce flowering times and so this might also have an impact on cannabinoid levels at the end of the grow. Especially when comparing the same strains. It wuold be interesting to know if Valoya took this into account. Here is what they have to say about Far Red accelerated flowering – something we have also noticed in our grows with the new High Light 420 boards: https://www.valoya.com/led-grow-lights-can-drastically-speed-up-flowering/
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
It's also interesting that the figures below do not add up. Simple maths says the Blue:Green ratios are incorrect and so are the Red:Far Red ratios. For example 39.7% Red to 3.8% Far Red is a ratio of 10.4 (not 12.3) for the Control, whilst the UVA + FR ratio is actually 9.1 (not 8.2). The UVA+ ratio is correct. Looking at the Blue:Green ratios, they are correct for the Control, but not for the UVA+ and UVA/FR+ lights.

Sloppy maths is sloppy science. If basic ratios can't be calculated correctly, then who knows what else is wrong? I'm not going to pick holes in every chart but simply point out that there appear to be quite a few mistakes in the presentation that may cast doubt on the numbers.
I can't edit my original post now so I need to point out that Valoya calculates its R:FR and B:G ratios using the Sellaro method and that the published figures are indeed correct and my asumptions were wrong.

The R:FR photon ratios can be calculated according to the definition by Sellaro et al.(2010); R:FR = (650–670 nm)/(720–740 nm). B:G = (420–490 nm)/(500–570 nm)
 

reza92

Well-Known Member
DIYLEDUK is our distributor in the UK and Europe: https://diyleduk.com/collections/high-light-diy-led-board-kits

@Frank Cannon has just completed a full grow of the new High Light 420 bords vs the old High Red boards with supplemental UVB (6% Arcadia reptile bulbs). As mentioned, the High Light 420s finished five days earlier on an 8-week strain with 18% more yield. Frank has saved us some samples which we will have THC tested to see how the new 420 UVA lights compare to the UVB reptile bulbs.

View attachment 4773993
hey man how hard is he driving these boards. Guessing somewhere near the 500w mark per set of 4?
 

salmonetin

Well-Known Member
Valoya and CaliforniaLightWorks...are big inspiratives brands for my diy pov....ou yeahhh...aussies and germans too...

...maybe some day AGL go on more than one channel boards pcbs for diyers...3 or 4 channels or more...each different leds on her respective channel......colors channels whites includes ---better for my pov...



...seems to me using Dialux Evo2...and ies files... you can go on similar way than light planning of valoya...



...volvemos a mute Wilson...

Saludos desde Tenerife
 
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Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
I watched the webinar and I also did a little bit of research afterwards. We need to clarify that Valoya did not test THC levels in the UV vs Far Red experiments – only CBD. Perhaps their THC results were not what they had hoped for. I would expect that if they were, they would have published them. It is even stranger to me as most growers are more interested in THC levels than CBD. Or they are at least interested in both.

It's also interesting that the figures below do not add up. Simple maths says the Blue:Green ratios are incorrect and so are the Red:Far Red ratios. For example 39.7% Red to 3.8% Far Red is a ratio of 10.4 (not 12.3) for the Control, whilst the UVA + FR ratio is actually 9.1 (not 8.2). The UVA+ ratio is correct. Looking at the Blue:Green ratios, they are correct for the Control, but not for the UVA+ and UVA/FR+ lights.

Sloppy maths is sloppy science. If basic ratios can't be calculated correctly, then who knows what else is wrong? I'm not going to pick holes in every chart but simply point out that there appear to be quite a few mistakes in the presentation that may cast doubt on the numbers.

I also want to point out that even though the UVA/FR+ LED had 385nm diodes compared to the Control LED having 405nm, the Control had significantly more cannabinoids. This is attributed to lower levels of Far Red light – even though the R:FR ratios are quite close (10.4 vs 9.1). It would have been more interesting to me to see the same levels of Far Red light where only the UVA is changed from 405nm to 385nm – that would tell us if indeed 385nm is better than 405nm because this experiment is inconclusive in that respect. In fact, it appears to confirm our belief that 405nm is just as good as UVA in increasing cannabinoid levels, as that's what the Valoya experiments showed.

View attachment 4774180


I also want to mention that the Valoya experiment appears to contradict what outdoor growers have found, which is that THC and terpene levels in outdoor plants (when grown properly) can actually be higher than those grown indoors under lights. Here is one reference for that statement and there are others online. https://weedmaps.com/news/2017/01/indoor-vs-outdoor-weed-a-visual-guide/


View attachment 4774184

Sunlight has a very low Red:Far Red ratio in the region of 1.4. That ratio varies at different times of day and season, but it is still a very low figure compared to indoor lighting. Even HPS has a R:FR ratio of around 2.8-3, which is twice as much R:FR as sunlight.

To be fair there are other experiments that have been done that do agree with the Valoya presentation. One of them is here: https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/489030

The highest THC percentages came from plants with the lowest amount of Far Red (higher R:FR ratio). The LED lights that were used in the above experiment also happend to be supplied by Valoya!

One phenomenon that may be happening is that in all the research we have read there seems to be a trade-off between yield and cannabinoid levels. That is to say that two plants of the same strain grown under different lights can have different yields and cannabinoid levels, but in many cases higher yields lead to lower cannabinoid levels and vice versa. It is almost as if the plant produces the same total amount of cannabinoids and only the yield changes. If you have higher yields with the same cannabinoid content, then the percentage of cannabinoids per biomass will be lower. This has been observed many times but I still can't say whether there is a linear correlation between the two.

If anything we have noticed that LED tends to produce higher cannabinoid levels and almost the same yield as HPS. HPS is very hard to beat for overal yield. LED can easily beat HPS on a yield per watts basis but when the grow area and conditions are the same, HPS can rival or beat LED for total yield even though it uses more power. I suspect this may have to do with HPS producing more stem weight in each flower compared to LED, as LED flowers are nearly always more compact and higher in cannabinoids.

As for the rest of the presentation, I don't have any real issue with it as it reinforces what we have said all along, that a small amount of UVA/near-UV can have quite a large effect on cannabinoid production compared to standard white phosphor LEDs that contain almost no light below 430nm.
I've also noted alot of inconsistencies in Valoya's presentations, have no clue what's the cause of that as it's completely unwarranted - the science for UV & FR is already there. Yet, they seem to rip alot of stuff outta context, exaggerate in their ad leaflets, refer to studies which give other numbers etc pp.
Nonetheless, their research into spectrum is interesting as this seems to be a field which is only discovered/demystified as of late, and not, by all means, fully at all.

It's really strange, in their experiments concerning R:FR ratios their plant (A. thaliana) stretched/etiolated enormously when "some" FR was introduced - yet the plant doesn't do it under sunlight - which has much more FR than most - if not all - indoor lights.


Furthermore, as you say, it really becomes paradoxial when *the controlplant* stretches most [!!!] Such a research should actually be redone, corrected or dismissed...
 

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
One phenomenon that may be happening is that in all the research we have read there seems to be a trade-off between yield and cannabinoid levels. That is to say that two plants of the same strain grown under different lights can have different yields and cannabinoid levels, but in many cases higher yields lead to lower cannabinoid levels and vice versa. It is almost as if the plant produces the same total amount of cannabinoids and only the yield changes. If you have higher yields with the same cannabinoid content, then the percentage of cannabinoids per biomass will be lower. This has been observed many times but I still can't say whether there is a linear correlation between the two.
I think it has to do with "gen expression" - certain stimuli cause the plant to grow either more into the bud or the trich direction. In both scenarios, the plant has a similar amount of resources ("photosynthates") at its disposal, and if it distributes these more into bud-development it automatically means, the other fields get less.

So there are theser ppl that think "more leaves = more photosynthesis = more dry harvest mass" but I find this logic to be too simplistic, and ultimately, wrong. Plants that use their resources to grow leaves do NOT have such big buds than plants which focus on bud development in flower, strictly. Especially because too many leaves are only going to shadow other leaves - reducing their function.
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
hey man how hard is he driving these boards. Guessing somewhere near the 500w mark per set of 4?
He's pairing the single boards with 240 drivers and the double kits are just 2x single kits, again with separate 240 drivers. DIYLEDUK normally uses XLG drivers set to the maximum board current (5A) with a little "Void if removed" sticker on the driver adjustment. He also uses external dimmers so the drivers can be adjusted without exceeding the maximum board current.

We do things a little differently and spec the single boards with ELG-200 drivers that max out at around 4.8A, which is just below the 5A maximum current. For the double boards we spec HLG-480H-54 drivers because they max out at around 9.9A, which again is just under the 10A max for two boards.

Our philosophy is you don't really lose much power (10-15W) and with the above drivers you can't acidentally overpower the boards like you can with a 240 driver or a 480H-48 driver, because both the Mean Well A and AB models of those drivers will output more than their rated currents (5A for the 240W and 10A for the 480W). It just makes them a bit more fool proof.
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
Valoya and CaliforniaLightWorks...are big inspiratives brands for my diy pov....ou yeahhh...aussies and germans too...

...maybe some day AGL go on more than one channel boards pcbs for diyers...3 or 4 channels or more...each different leds on her respective channel......colors channels whites includes ---better for my pov...
It's certainly possible, but it comes down to how much people want to pay for such systems. At least they will get cheaper as the technology develops. We're really only just starting out wth LEDs as far as horticulture is concerned.
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
I've also noted alot of inconsistencies in Valoya's presentations, have no clue what's the cause of that as it's completely unwarranted - the science for UV & FR is already there. Yet, they seem to rip alot of stuff outta context, exaggerate in their ad leaflets, refer to studies which give other numbers etc pp.
Nonetheless, their research into spectrum is interesting as this seems to be a field which is only discovered/demystified as of late, and not, by all means, fully at all.

It's really strange, in their experiments concerning R:FR ratios their plant (A. thaliana) stretched/etiolated enormously when "some" FR was introduced - yet the plant doesn't do it under sunlight - which has much more FR than most - if not all - indoor lights.


Furthermore, as you say, it really becomes paradoxial when *the controlplant* stretches most [!!!] Such a research should actually be redone, corrected or dismissed...
We haven't had any additional stretch reported with the new boards and they have twice as much far red – over 9%. What is sometimes forgotten is blue light and UV also counter shade-avoidance, so it is not just R:FR that regulates it. Our original High Light UV boards have almost 5% far red and they didn't promote stretch either. Sometimes a little stretch is a good thing anyway. It helps control mould and lets light into more areas of the plant for better yields.

I think it has to do with "gen expression" - certain stimuli cause the plant to grow either more into the bud or the trich direction. In both scenarios, the plant has a similar amount of resources ("photosynthates") at its disposal, and if it distributes these more into bud-development it automatically means, the other fields get less.
Yes. I'm sure there is a point of equilibrium where any increase in secondary metabolites is not worth the loss in yield or vice versa. It may be strain dependent. Light intensity can have a positive effect on yields but too much can have a negtive effect so there is a balance there.
 

SSGrower

Well-Known Member
It's certainly possible, but it comes down to how much people want to pay for such systems. At least they will get cheaper as the technology develops. We're really only just starting out wth LEDs as far as horticulture is concerned.
I did not see any real benifit to having white, red and uv on seperate channels and sperate timing. I did many differtent timings and none produced significantly different results. IMO mono uv leds are too intense too much of a point source. Perhaps only a slightly faster finish time with red eod but couldn't really do direct comparisons on any of it much is subjective opinion. I added a 315cmh hit uv and red, your new boards seem a good direct replacement for it. They really did design the original boards to suppliment cmh, that's why I tried to build one out of leds. I originally pushed @Grow Lights Australia to do seperate channels but have come to the conclusion it is unnecessary and adds complexity where it is not needed, focus more on your environment. IMO and I conclude you can bake it all into one channel and get as much of not more benifit.
Thank you @Grow Lights Australia for doing what you are doing. I looked at grtting more boards but could not get my cc to work on your site (before new boards came out). Sorry I didn't push the issue but it was cheaper to add the cmh and was really the way I needed to go at the time.
 
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