2lb Closed loop Christmas gift. How to start from zero?

TheSwede

Member
Hello!

I got this 2lb closed loop system with accessories as a Christmas gift. The problem is that I've never done this before but I've tried to gather as much information as possible. I'm from Sweden and there's no market for this since its illegal so I'm looking for some serious help on the way. The end product is going to be vape oil(BHO E-juice?).


What would be a good starting weight for material?


Here are some pictures of my setup. I'll be using dry ice for cooling.


2lb.JPG


Tillbehör.jpg
 

trambles

Well-Known Member
Starting weight? Just fill it up and pack it lightly. U wont get a decent vape juice without winterizing the wax first.
 

Star Dog

Well-Known Member
Hi welcome to the forum... that looks like a fancy piece of kit what is it?
I'm not sure about the amounts I'd just fill it.
I've made bho with a simple flask/thermos and half dozen tins of high purity butane gas, I just filled the flask with trim and larf then sprayed in the gas..
 

TheSwede

Member
Starting weight? Just fill it up and pack it lightly. U wont get a decent vape juice without winterizing the wax first.
The plan is to start low incase of major screwups and then gradually increase. This system got dewaxing chamber would that be enough for winterizing?


Hi welcome to the forum... that looks like a fancy piece of kit what is it?
I'm not sure about the amounts I'd just fill it.
I've made bho with a simple flask/thermos and half dozen tins of high purity butane gas, I just filled the flask with trim and larf then sprayed in the gas..
Thank you sir.

This is the machine: https://www.cnextractor.com/product/stainless-steel-2lb-dewax-collumn-bho-extractor-closed-loop-oil-extraction-machine-system-with-recovery-tank/2

My first run will be around Christmas and the plan is to go small and make sure I don't screw it up. Below is a picture of the "factory" I will be using. I might do a VLOG when everything is ready for those who are interested.



hus.JPG
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Hello!

I got this 2lb closed loop system with accessories as a Christmas gift. The problem is that I've never done this before but I've tried to gather as much information as possible. I'm from Sweden and there's no market for this since its illegal so I'm looking for some serious help on the way. The end product is going to be vape oil(BHO E-juice?).


What would be a good starting weight for material?


Here are some pictures of my setup. I'll be using dry ice for cooling.


View attachment 4772460


View attachment 4772476
A 2 lb system ostensibly holds around 2 lbs and your top flood column must be full and packed, to prevent the butane from finding the easy way through. You can pack part of your column with coffee filters (or?) to take up the space, so as to run less plant material.

Depending on the material, I pack at a column density of from 3.8 to 4.1 grams per cubic inch of column capacity. The 4.1 gm/in3 is material with about a 10% moisture content and which has been reduced to about a 10 mesh particle size. 3.8 gr/in3 is breaking buds into about 1/2" chunks.

In both cases I use about a 2" ram and pack the column about every foot by pushing with all my weight until the material stops moving. I don't pound, just push firmly.
 

Star Dog

Well-Known Member
The plan is to start low incase of major screwups and then gradually increase. This system got dewaxing chamber would that be enough for winterizing?




Thank you sir.

This is the machine: https://www.cnextractor.com/product/stainless-steel-2lb-dewax-collumn-bho-extractor-closed-loop-oil-extraction-machine-system-with-recovery-tank/2

My first run will be around Christmas and the plan is to go small and make sure I don't screw it up. Below is a picture of the "factory" I will be using. I might do a VLOG when everything is ready for those who are interested.



View attachment 4773174
Yes vlog would be good, I'd like to see how it works and what the end product is like.

FYI I like your factory I'd love to have something bigger than a tent to grow in, not because I want to grow tons, more for the space to move and to fit in the necessary equipment without a fucking shoe horn :-)
 

TheSwede

Member
A 2 lb system ostensibly holds around 2 lbs and your top flood column must be full and packed, to prevent the butane from finding the easy way through. You can pack part of your column with coffee filters (or?) to take up the space, so as to run less plant material.

Depending on the material, I pack at a column density of from 3.8 to 4.1 grams per cubic inch of column capacity. The 4.1 gm/in3 is material with about a 10% moisture content and which has been reduced to about a 10 mesh particle size. 3.8 gr/in3 is breaking buds into about 1/2" chunks.

In both cases I use about a 2" ram and pack the column about every foot by pushing with all my weight until the material stops moving. I don't pound, just push firmly.
How to use coffee filter correct?

I tried a small batch of 1 lb today but the butane just flew thru the material column down to collection chamber. Thats what happens you aint packing to the top?
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
How to use coffee filter correct?

I tried a small batch of 1 lb today but the butane just flew thru the material column down to collection chamber. Thats what happens you aint packing to the top?
I use commercial restaurant size coffee filters, so they are larger, but regular ones will work. I just wad them up lightly and pack the bottom couple of inches with wadded filters, as well as the last couple of inches. I use a 150 mesh gasket/screen to hold them in place.

To ram filters and column, I first clamp an end cap on the bottom to ram against. I remove it to install the column. Do not try to ram against the screens, or they will break.
 

TheSwede

Member
I use commercial restaurant size coffee filters, so they are larger, but regular ones will work. I just wad them up lightly and pack the bottom couple of inches with wadded filters, as well as the last couple of inches. I use a 150 mesh gasket/screen to hold them in place.

To ram filters and column, I first clamp an end cap on the bottom to ram against. I remove it to install the column. Do not try to ram against the screens, or they will break.
Thank you very much.

The plan is to extract 10 lb a month. What size of an oven should fit that kind of amount?
 

KonopCh

Well-Known Member
What's the proper order of closed column blast? Open bottom valve till BHO drips (push air out) and then close it and blasting BHO till full? Then close top valve and wait 30-60 minutes? Then open slowly bottom one and collect?
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
What's the proper order of closed column blast? Open bottom valve till BHO drips (push air out) and then close it and blasting BHO till full? Then close top valve and wait 30-60 minutes? Then open slowly bottom one and collect?
The proper order is to pull a vacuum on the system, including the hoses, to remove all the air first. To have an explosion/conflagration, we need fuel, oxygen, and an ignition source. We have fuel and static electricity can provide an ignition source, so our best control is to isolate the fuel from its source of oxygen.

Check: https://graywolfslair.com/index.php/diy-cannamed-production/9-4-extraction/9-4-9-alkane-extraction/9-4-9-2-propane-butane-extractions/9-4-9-2-1-butane-safety-and-social-responsibility

Before that you need to determine how much LPG you are going to pass through the material. On average I use about three column volumes, so a good place to start.

You need pre distill that much to load that much LPG into your storage tank. See this article using a Terpenator, but the technique is the same: https://graywolfslair.com/index.php/diy-cannamed-production/9-4-extraction/9-4-9-alkane-extraction/9-4-9-2-propane-butane-extractions/9-4-9-2-3-butane-mystery-oil-removal-using-a-terpenator

I can't tell for sure from looking at your system what the different volumes are, but it looks like may need to make multiple runs to fully extract your column of material.

For injection you want everything cold, which includes your storage tank, column, and lower recovery tank, so as to keep the LPG liquid.

You are limited to how cold you can get your storage tank both its mechanical properties standpoint and from the standpoint of injection pressure. As the temperature of the LPG drops, so does its pressure.

One way to over come that is to use a gas mix with a lower boiling point, but that means that you will have to recover below that boiling point running passively.

You can also use a hot vapor boost to push the liquid like this: https://graywolfslair.com/index.php/15-diy-equipment/15-25-hot-vapor-assist

Lastly you can use compressed nitrogen to push the LPG through and burp it off before starting recovery.

Another solution that I prefer, is a heat exchanger coil between the tank dip tube and the column, sitting in a dry ice slurry at the sublimation temperature of dry ice, which is about -78.5C/109.3F. That allows you to keep your storage/recovery tank at a higher temperature.

You can chill the storage tank in one dry ice slurry bath, the recovery tank in another colder one and, your column jacket another. If you have an injection heat exchanger, it would also have one.

After everything has normalized, and your storage tank at the temperature you want it at for direct injection or through a heat exchanger, you are ready to inject. I prefer to pull the vacuum before chilling, so as to remove any atmospheric humidity from the system before it reaches its dew point.

I prefer to inject two column volumes from the bottom, overflowing through a vent tube to the lower collection tank, with the lower column dump valve closed.

Your system isn't plumbed for it, so If you prefer to flood top only, check to see if you have a shower head at the top of your column to distribute the LPG more evenly over the top of the column.

With everything under vacuum and chilled, you shouldn't get instant vapor pressure once your injection starts, but with a top flood the vapors will rise to the top of the column preventing a full fill. Opening the bottom valve will relieve the pressure by venting liquid from the column bottom, but not full address the vapor at the top of the column issue.

In addition, soaking material without flow creates stagnant layers where the extraction slows to a crawl or stop. I therefore don't try to soak the column, but leave the bottom valve open and inject the LPG straight through. That resolves both the vapor issue and removes the stagnant boundary layers to speed up the process.

Recover by leaving your recovery tank in the dry ice slurry and set your collection tank in 110F hot water. Drain the column jacket and add hot water. I use 150F for column heat.

Merry Christmas!
 

KonopCh

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I should say that I wanted to know about those tubes which doesn't have recovery tanks. So just blasting tube with two valves.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I should say that I wanted to know about those tubes which doesn't have recovery tanks. So just blasting tube with two valves.
My experience with soaking in a closed column is that it increased my yield of mostly non targeted longer chain molecules like plant waxes, carotene, and pheophytin.

That said, the direct answer to your question is that most people crack the lower valve and inject until it drips, then close and get as much LPG injected as will flow, then close the top valve for the soak period.

The Achilles heel of that process, is that you will still have LPG vapors in your column, so don't get everything uniformly wetted. You can eliminate that by injecting from the bottom until it flows out the top and then closing both valves.

To make it more user friendly, I laid the tube on its side and added an elbow at each end, with the valves on the vertical legs. That way, when I flooded from one end, the atmosphere and vapors were fully floated out the other, giving me uniform wetting.

We experimented with the concept and discarded the idea for the reasons above to move on to closed loop.

Soaking produces stagnant boundary layers, so I kept those removed using donated vibrator. Here is the test sled and more about open blasting at": https://graywolfslair.com/index.php/diy-cannamed-production/9-4-extraction/9-4-11-open-blast

Prototype pressurized and vibrated.jpg

Merry Christmas and happy 12/29/20!
 

TheSwede

Member
Hello!

Sorry for a slow update but here comes the first attempt(I will get better pictures next time):

700g of crappy trim and leaves.

1.JPG

- Dewaxing column with dry ice 1-2 hours(with material).
- Collection chamber dry ice
- Full vacuum on system
- Ball valve 10 seconds after I open the solvent tank and let it flush until it stops dripping.
- Recovery 40-50c until tank is refilled with butane.
- purge 60-80c until no visible bubbles.

Yield after purge = 30g(yes I know its terrible)

Questions:

- Should I do a new run with soak right after the first extraction for better yields?
- How long should dewaxing column sit in dry ice before extraction?
- Should I put the buds/trim in freezer day before extraction for better results?

I will do a new attempt tomorrow with video and more photos.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
This is all very cool. It's like walter white shit man :) Is there a reason you folks prefer these complex rigs to create your extracts as opposed to producing hash rosin? I just find it curious and I've never asked anyone that makes the stuff. I feel like I'm missing something, and I need someone to clue me in :) From my understanding hash rosin goes for about $100/gram where I live. BHO barely fetches $40/g. The investment and process is light years easier, safer, and the product sells for more than twice as much as BHO, so I'm just perplexed here why folks still pursue making the stuff. Someone straighten me the fuck out :)

BTW, compliments on your sweet new rig. That just says, "I'm a badass."
 

TheSwede

Member
This is all very cool. It's like walter white shit man :) Is there a reason you folks prefer these complex rigs to create your extracts as opposed to producing hash rosin? I just find it curious and I've never asked anyone that makes the stuff. I feel like I'm missing something, and I need someone to clue me in :) From my understanding hash rosin goes for about $100/gram where I live. BHO barely fetches $40/g. The investment and process is light years easier, safer, and the product sells for more than twice as much as BHO, so I'm just perplexed here why folks still pursue making the stuff. Someone straighten me the fuck out :)

BTW, compliments on your sweet new rig. That just says, "I'm a badass."
Thanks man. 30g with added terpenes -> 120x 0.5 ml carts -> 8,400$ in my country.

Robocop-good-business-meme.gif
 

Attachments

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Hello!

Sorry for a slow update but here comes the first attempt(I will get better pictures next time):

700g of crappy trim and leaves.

View attachment 4822808

- Dewaxing column with dry ice 1-2 hours(with material).
- Collection chamber dry ice
- Full vacuum on system
- Ball valve 10 seconds after I open the solvent tank and let it flush until it stops dripping.
- Recovery 40-50c until tank is refilled with butane.
- purge 60-80c until no visible bubbles.

Yield after purge = 30g(yes I know its terrible)

Questions:

- Should I do a new run with soak right after the first extraction for better yields?
- How long should dewaxing column sit in dry ice before extraction?
- Should I put the buds/trim in freezer day before extraction for better results?

I will do a new attempt tomorrow with video and more photos.
I suggest that you purge at a lower temperature (46C/115F) unless you are trying to decarb in the same step, in which case I would go all the way to 122C/250F.

You didn't mention vacuum levels purging. I typically purge at about 10,000 microns/-29.5" Hg.

4.3% return on crappy trim is hard to gauge. The strains that I run typically run 18 to 20% essential oil yield from the buds and trim, and about half that for just prime trim. Half of that for crappy trim may be in the ball park, but the way to tell for sure is examine your spent plant material for intact trichome heads. Don't worry about the stems, just look for heads.
 
My first build was very similar. You will need just under one imperial gallon of butane (approx. 5 lb.) per pound of sample matrix. Solvent will flow from high pressure (hot water bath) to low pressure that you create by chemical bath ( dry ice + ethanol/ isopropyl alcohol @ 99.9%) in metal 5 gal bucket, also pulling a full vacuum on system before starting. Looks like you will need 10 kg of dry ice to do your column and (8 liters alcohol/ethanol) chemical bath. You will need to add some proper filtration below your column. Filtration is very important. I start by cramming my (coarsely ground) sample matrix into a nylon stocking 150 microns followed by a diffusion filter (wad of stainless steel scrub pad) and double coffee filter at the bottom of the column, then perhaps a 10 micron atop of the ball valve and 5 micron below. I finish of with a 2 microns but 5 microns will do. Use EPMD rated filters.
Butane is a very heavy hydrocarbon and does a great deal of work. so avoid prolonged contact with sample matrix to avoid to darkness of a finished product output.
 

TheSwede

Member
I suggest that you purge at a lower temperature (46C/115F) unless you are trying to decarb in the same step, in which case I would go all the way to 122C/250F.

You didn't mention vacuum levels purging. I typically purge at about 10,000 microns/-29.5" Hg.

4.3% return on crappy trim is hard to gauge. The strains that I run typically run 18 to 20% essential oil yield from the buds and trim, and about half that for just prime trim. Half of that for crappy trim may be in the ball park, but the way to tell for sure is examine your spent plant material for intact trichome heads. Don't worry about the stems, just look for heads.
I always purge at -29.5 or as close to -30 as possible. I did a new run this weekend with 300g and got the same yield around 30g.

The difference this time was only buds and flushed 3 times thru the material column + 1 minute soak first flush. Dewaxing column at -50c and collection at -55-60c.

Any suggestions or tips for even better results?


My first build was very similar. You will need just under one imperial gallon of butane (approx. 5 lb.) per pound of sample matrix. Solvent will flow from high pressure (hot water bath) to low pressure that you create by chemical bath ( dry ice + ethanol/ isopropyl alcohol @ 99.9%) in metal 5 gal bucket, also pulling a full vacuum on system before starting. Looks like you will need 10 kg of dry ice to do your column and (8 liters alcohol/ethanol) chemical bath. You will need to add some proper filtration below your column. Filtration is very important. I start by cramming my (coarsely ground) sample matrix into a nylon stocking 150 microns followed by a diffusion filter (wad of stainless steel scrub pad) and double coffee filter at the bottom of the column, then perhaps a 10 micron atop of the ball valve and 5 micron below. I finish of with a 2 microns but 5 microns will do. Use EPMD rated filters.
Butane is a very heavy hydrocarbon and does a great deal of work. so avoid prolonged contact with sample matrix to avoid to darkness of a finished product output.
I always have 15-20kg of dry ice when I extract with isopropyl as an option.

Check this specc for my machine:

IMG_20210214_100451.jpg
 
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Do you dry and grind your bud, then tightly pack? More efficient to grind and stuff (more backpressure) and try to avoid soaking as more time more wax. Think of your column as a simple machine where weight of solvent, density of sample matrix, flow rate and volume affect efficiency. Hard to determine yield prospectus when the 800 lb. gorilla in the room is the potency of the sample. A good return should be around 70g for a pound midgrade pot trim and as a rule; the better the bud the greater density of oil ergo: same volume/more weight. Regarding filtration: What use is a dewaxing column (cryogenically coagulating lipids) if you do not have the filters to remove them?
I hope this helps.
 
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