Leaves Sucked Dry (All Plant Stages)

[Titikshu]

So, I've had this issue for well over 4-6 months.

Leaves seem to be being sucked of nutrients by the plant, especially older leaves. Leaves on top are great, but lower leaves seem to be having issues.

Some plants are in plastic containers, some are fabric. Some are in pro-mix, some are in soil. Some are under HPS, some MH, some CMH. Check photos for symptoms. My watering schedule has been 3 times weekly with 1/2 strength feed then water (or water with Recharge) then another 1/2 strength feed. I've tried full strength feeds and the top leaves get darker, but the issues still remain on the bottom.

At first, I figured it was a nutrient issue (even though its happening to younger mother plants, older mother plants, and flowering plants) so I tested run-off. pH was within range, with a few plants showing high PPM (above 800, a couple above 1,000). I went ahead and flushed all plants until runoff was 400 PPM or less (my tap water was under 100 PPM) and resumed feeding. Things improved for a week, then back to issues.

Then I switched nutrients from general hydroponics to Hydrodynamics Mother Plant then to Advanced Nutrients. If I use Veg based nutes, growth tends to be a little too lanky so I've been alternating bloom and veg every other feeding keeping doses at half strength (2mL/L) which has been about 800-1,000 ppm.

I also thought VPD was off as the humidity was often too low (for veg) being around 55% so I got enclosed the grow in a large 10x10 tent and put in controls keeping humidity 50-60% in the flower tent and 60-70% in veg. That didn't help.

I also figured it was the tap water, so I switched to an RO system.

No bugs (except fungus gnats which have come and gone multiple times throughout the last 4 months); I use Marrone Bio Venerage & Regalia, Dr. Zymes, and Plant Therapy with occasional uses of neem and diatomaceous earth. I spray something every 5 -7 days.

All plants are considerably large for their container size...maybe root pruning and repotting? I've tried that with 3 of the plants last week and haven't noticed any difference yet.

Any ideas? Any more problem solving I can do?

 

[smokinrav]

It's definitely a nutrient uptake issue. Plants consume their oldest leaves by robbing the sugars in them and converting them to the missing elements.
Could be as simple as a magnesium and/or calcium deficiency.
Don't pull off partially damaged leaves, the plant will just move on to the next set up and increase the speed of defloration. Let them be consumed until a fix is in place

 

[Titikshu]

It's definitely a nutrient uptake issue. Plants consume their oldest leaves by robbing the sugars in them and converting them to the missing elements.
Could be as simple as a magnesium and/or calcium deficiency.
Don't pull off partially damaged leaves, the plant will just move on to the next set up and increase the speed of defloration. Let them be consumed until a fix is in place

Yeah, I usually leave the leaves on. The plant is sucking them of nutrients pretty readily so no worries there. I'll up nutrients to 3/4 strength every other time and alternate veg & bloom and see what happens. Root zone pH is fine. I'm seriously at a loss as I've increased nutes before only to see nutrient toxicity.

 

[smokinrav]

Make sure your pH is good as well

 

[mistergrafik]

issa PH

 

[Titikshu]

Make sure your pH is good as well

last I checked was 6.0 in and averaged 6.0-6.5 out. I've been balancing nutrients around 5.6-6.0 and my Recharge or compost tea is usually 6.0-6.5.

 

[mistergrafik]

So, I've had this issue for well over 4-6 months.

My watering schedule has been 3 times weekly

I went ahead and flushed all plants until runoff was 400 PPM or less

Then I switched nutrients from general hydroponics to Hydrodynamics Mother Plant then to Advanced Nutrients. If I use Veg based nutes, growth tends to be a little too lanky so I've been alternating bloom and veg every other feeding keeping doses at half strength


I also figured it was the tap water, so I switched to an RO system.

No bugs (except fungus gnats which have come and gone multiple times throughout the last 4 months); I use Marrone Bio Venerage & Regalia, Dr. Zymes, and Plant Therapy with occasional uses of neem and diatomaceous earth. I spray something every 5 -7 days.

Any ideas? Any more problem solving I can do?

All ur issues are bolded

 

[Hollatchaboy]

So, I've had this issue for well over 4-6 months.

Leaves seem to be being sucked of nutrients by the plant, especially older leaves. Leaves on top are great, but lower leaves seem to be having issues.

Some plants are in plastic containers, some are fabric. Some are in pro-mix, some are in soil. Some are under HPS, some MH, some CMH. Check photos for symptoms. My watering schedule has been 3 times weekly with 1/2 strength feed then water (or water with Recharge) then another 1/2 strength feed. I've tried full strength feeds and the top leaves get darker, but the issues still remain on the bottom.

At first, I figured it was a nutrient issue (even though its happening to younger mother plants, older mother plants, and flowering plants) so I tested run-off. pH was within range, with a few plants showing high PPM (above 800, a couple above 1,000). I went ahead and flushed all plants until runoff was 400 PPM or less (my tap water was under 100 PPM) and resumed feeding. Things improved for a week, then back to issues.

Then I switched nutrients from general hydroponics to Hydrodynamics Mother Plant then to Advanced Nutrients. If I use Veg based nutes, growth tends to be a little too lanky so I've been alternating bloom and veg every other feeding keeping doses at half strength (2mL/L) which has been about 800-1,000 ppm.

I also thought VPD was off as the humidity was often too low (for veg) being around 55% so I got enclosed the grow in a large 10x10 tent and put in controls keeping humidity 50-60% in the flower tent and 60-70% in veg. That didn't help.

I also figured it was the tap water, so I switched to an RO system.

No bugs (except fungus gnats which have come and gone multiple times throughout the last 4 months); I use Marrone Bio Venerage & Regalia, Dr. Zymes, and Plant Therapy with occasional uses of neem and diatomaceous earth. I spray something every 5 -7 days.

All plants are considerably large for their container size...maybe root pruning and repotting? I've tried that with 3 of the plants last week and haven't noticed any difference yet.

Any ideas? Any more problem solving I can do?

View attachment 4753402View attachment 4753399View attachment 4753400View attachment 4753401View attachment 4753402View attachment 4753403View attachment 4753404

Could be root rot.

 

[mistergrafik]

Could be root rot.

What I said before I edited my post. Promix with 3x a week sounds like a lot but idk

 

[Hollatchaboy]

What I said before I edited my post. Promix with 3x a week sounds like a lot but idk

If he mixed it with perlite... maybe. Depends on how heavy he feeds also.

 

[Titikshu]

All ur issues are bolded

Thanks for the feedback. A bit more info: My 6 month old mother plants are in 3 gallon fabric pots. I only water when needed, but the average is 3x weekly. I know they need it because on the schedule at least 1 plant is screaming for water and the others are dry within the top 2 inches of soil. The other plants are similar scenario, just smaller pots. My flowering plants are not so root-restricted, but I've got 6 of them under 1 light, all in 3 gallon fabric containers.

Could you elaborate a bit more on other points bolded?

I understand it's generally not desirable to switch nutrients, but I used Advanced Nutrients while I was growing mainly for flowering production, but since switching to being more of a nursery, have been trying to find other nutrients that work better. This is one of the reasons I've been switching from veg to bloom. most the literature I've read says that mother plants should be given less nitrogen (or at least a more even Nitrogen to Potassium ratio) to help keep growth a bit slower, but tighter and healthy and to help with rooting. With the General Hydroponics, I would just use the Micro and Bloom and everything was a 1:1, but with the issues that came up started trying to address variables one at a time.

For spraying, I had to spray that often to keep a clean stock of mother plants and clones. Other "nurseries" I know spray 1x week, but they're in closed rooms. My room is finally closed so I'm just doing something 1x week now.

Why would using RO water instead of my city water be a problem?

Thanks for your time and experience! It's very much appreciated.

 

[Hollatchaboy]

Thanks for the feedback. A bit more info: My 6 month old mother plants are in 3 gallon fabric pots. I only water when needed, but the average is 3x weekly. I know they need it because on the schedule at least 1 plant is screaming for water and the others are dry within the top 2 inches of soil. The other plants are similar scenario, just smaller pots. My flowering plants are not so root-restricted, but I've got 6 of them under 1 light, all in 3 gallon fabric containers.

Could you elaborate a bit more on other points bolded?

I understand it's generally not desirable to switch nutrients, but I used Advanced Nutrients while I was growing mainly for flowering production, but since switching to being more of a nursery, have been trying to find other nutrients that work better. This is one of the reasons I've been switching from veg to bloom. most the literature I've read says that mother plants should be given less nitrogen (or at least a more even Nitrogen to Potassium ratio) to help keep growth a bit slower, but tighter and healthy and to help with rooting. With the General Hydroponics, I would just use the Micro and Bloom and everything was a 1:1, but with the issues that came up started trying to address variables one at a time.

For spraying, I had to spray that often to keep a clean stock of mother plants and clones. Other "nurseries" I know spray 1x week, but they're in closed rooms. My room is finally closed so I'm just doing something 1x week now.

Why would using RO water instead of my city water be a problem?

Thanks for your time and experience! It's very much appreciated.

You want a 1:2 with genhydro micro and bloom.

 

[mistergrafik]

Thanks for the feedback. A bit more info: My 6 month old mother plants are in 3 gallon fabric pots. I only water when needed, but the average is 3x weekly. I know they need it because on the schedule at least 1 plant is screaming for water and the others are dry within the top 2 inches of soil. The other plants are similar scenario, just smaller pots. My flowering plants are not so root-restricted, but I've got 6 of them under 1 light, all in 3 gallon fabric containers.

Could you elaborate a bit more on other points bolded?

I understand it's generally not desirable to switch nutrients, but I used Advanced Nutrients while I was growing mainly for flowering production, but since switching to being more of a nursery, have been trying to find other nutrients that work better. This is one of the reasons I've been switching from veg to bloom. most the literature I've read says that mother plants should be given less nitrogen (or at least a more even Nitrogen to Potassium ratio) to help keep growth a bit slower, but tighter and healthy and to help with rooting. With the General Hydroponics, I would just use the Micro and Bloom and everything was a 1:1, but with the issues that came up started trying to address variables one at a time.

For spraying, I had to spray that often to keep a clean stock of mother plants and clones. Other "nurseries" I know spray 1x week, but they're in closed rooms. My room is finally closed so I'm just doing something 1x week now.

Why would using RO water instead of my city water be a problem?

Thanks for your time and experience! It's very much appreciated.

Switching nutrients isn't too bad - I think you said u flushed too.

I personally have never followed the route of alternating G&B like u are saying. I would rather adjust my veg formula to be less aggressive. Micro +G+B at a diluted rate. Depending on your lighting and temps you can manage stretch pretty well. I used to just run my veg nute mix for my mothers at 1/2 strength but have since switched to Peat and Dry amendment so I can feed hose water. It's like a lazy boy living soil I suppose. No where near as dynamic.

What are you spraying? Leaves look burned to me. It could be an extreme CA lockout too.

Switching from hard tap water to RO water you are going to swing the root zone. What is the PPM of ur tap? Tap can be treated water such as shit like Calcium Chloride, Sodium Bicarbonate, Magnesium sulfate etc. It could have stripped your medium of CA and MG.

These are all speculation. You switched a lot of things around on urself so bound to run into an adjustment period. Dial it back in

 

[mistergrafik]

You want a 1:2 with genhydro micro and bloom.

simple enough

 

[Titikshu]

Switching nutrients isn't too bad - I think you said u flushed too.

I personally have never followed the route of alternating G&B like u are saying. I would rather adjust my veg formula to be less aggressive. Micro +G+B at a diluted rate. Depending on your lighting and temps you can manage stretch pretty well. I used to just run my veg nute mix for my mothers at 1/2 strength but have since switched to Peat and Dry amendment so I can feed hose water. It's like a lazy boy living soil I suppose. No where near as dynamic.

What are you spraying? Leaves look burned to me. It could be an extreme CA lockout too.

Switching from hard tap water to RO water you are going to swing the root zone. What is the PPM of ur tap? Tap can be treated water such as shit like Calcium Chloride, Sodium Bicarbonate, Magnesium sulfate etc. It could have stripped your medium of CA and MG.

These are all speculation. You switched a lot of things around on urself so bound to run into an adjustment period. Dial it back in

Thanks again. Although I switched a lot of things, they were all done over a 4-7 month period in an attempt to dial everything in. In the summer, I was just in a completely open basement grow but as weather has changed, so has conditions that were once favorable. I'm hoping to get everything dialed in now. My tap water wasn't horrible by any means...PPM were under 100, but pH was 7.8-8.0! It was also just another variable that I wanted eliminated.
Extreme CA lockout does make sense. Nothing other than things like Plant Therapy and Dr. Zymes was sprayed with the occasional (1x 2-3 weeks of Marrone Bio Venerage or Regalia and probably 1 x 4-6 weeks with Neem oil). The open basement grow invited a lot of pests so I had to always be on top of it.

All in all I've been able to keep the mothers a while and have been taking cuts regularly (every 2 weeks or so). They are looking better, but the fact that the issue still remains is annoying after everything I've done to eliminate possibilities.

For nutrients, 1:2 general hydroponics micro:bloom is easy enough...What PPM ranges? When I was keeping it around 800 I was still having issues...although I was using a 1:1 ratio.

Happy Growing!

 

[Hollatchaboy]

Thanks again. Although I switched a lot of things, they were all done over a 4-7 month period in an attempt to dial everything in. In the summer, I was just in a completely open basement grow but as weather has changed, so has conditions that were once favorable. I'm hoping to get everything dialed in now. My tap water wasn't horrible by any means...PPM were under 100, but pH was 7.8-8.0! It was also just another variable that I wanted eliminated.
Extreme CA lockout does make sense. Nothing other than things like Plant Therapy and Dr. Zymes was sprayed with the occasional (1x 2-3 weeks of Marrone Bio Venerage or Regalia and probably 1 x 4-6 weeks with Neem oil). The open basement grow invited a lot of pests so I had to always be on top of it.

All in all I've been able to keep the mothers a while and have been taking cuts regularly (every 2 weeks or so). They are looking better, but the fact that the issue still remains is annoying after everything I've done to eliminate possibilities.

For nutrients, 1:2 general hydroponics micro:bloom is easy enough...What PPM ranges? When I was keeping it around 800 I was still having issues...although I was using a 1:1 ratio.

Happy Growing!

Mine usually comes out to 1300 or so on the 7 scale. Ph is usually 5.5.

 

[Titikshu]

So, just as an update to everyone after containing plants in tents, dialing in environmental control, changing to RO water, and removing as many variables as possible, my plant's health improved greatly, but was still having some issues, BUT I finally found the solution! The main problem was:

Chronic under-watering

Raising pH a bit did help, as did sticking with a regular (and simple) nutrient regimen. In the end, I installed a drip system to water all plants and instead of being watered every 2-3 days and regularly finding a couple wilted plants, they are watered a little everyday with a hand-watering once every 5-7 days. I'm using General Hydroponic Flora Series Bloom base nutrients at half strength (1tsp Micro & 1.5tsp Bloom per gallon), only applying "Grow" (.5 tsp/gal) every other reservoir fill.

Thanks for everyone's help problem-solving. It takes a community to raise a garden! )

 

[Hollatchaboy]

So, just as an update to everyone after containing plants in tents, dialing in environmental control, changing to RO water, and removing as many variables as possible, my plant's health improved greatly, but was still having some issues, BUT I finally found the solution! The main problem was:

Chronic under-watering

Raising pH a bit did help, as did sticking with a regular (and simple) nutrient regimen. In the end, I installed a drip system to water all plants and instead of being watered every 2-3 days and regularly finding a couple wilted plants, they are watered a little everyday with a hand-watering once every 5-7 days. I'm using General Hydroponic Flora Series Bloom base nutrients at half strength (1tsp Micro & 1.5tsp Bloom per gallon), only applying "Grow" (.5 tsp/gal) every other reservoir fill.

Thanks for everyone's help problem-solving. It takes a community to raise a garden! )

Good work man! You've gained some experience points! Lol... now you'll be able to identify that should it ever happen in the future. If you don't already, you should keep a journal with pictures for every strain. That way you can always refer back. It makes troubleshooting much easier. I hope for continued good luck in your grow!