Anyone using dry potassium silicate? (AgSil)

[jonnynobody]

I'm close to depleting my bottle of Armor SI which is general hydroponic's overpriced water mixture of potassium silicate. I prefer dry fertilizer because you always get more for your money. I'm looking at: AgSil 16H, 4 pounds in a re-closable plastic container.
http://customhydronutrients.com/potassium-silicate-fertilizer-c-1_60_68/potassium-silicate-32-k2o-528-sio2-dry-powder-4-pounds-p-131.html
4# is about $60 which should last years - I think. The product description reads: 0.7 grams in one gallon of water yeilds 98ppm SiO2 or 46ppm Si, and 49ppm K
The problem is I don't know what elemental PPM of SI or K the Armor SI is adding at the 1.25ML/gallon strength I presently use it at. I'm firing away an email to GH hoping they can answer that question. I couldn't find any documentation on GH's website about what elemental PPM of each element is actually being added at any given strength. It likes like a "Just trust us" theme. God forbid they should inform their customers what's actually in their product. Yet another reason to gravitate away from GH altogether. I'll let y'all know if I get a response from GH.

My goal is to find a viable replacement for Armor SI which is just an overpriced mixture of water, potassium, and silicate. If I can figure out the application rate with the AgSil to get nearly the same elemental PPM's that I'm presently adding with Armor SI then I should be able to seemlesly integrate the AgSil and eliminate the GH bottle. A very overpriced GH bottle I might add. If you're using AgSil what application rate are you applying it at?

 

[jonnynobody]

I'm close to depleting my bottle of Armor SI which is general hydroponic's overpriced water mixture of potassium silicate. I prefer dry fertilizer because you always get more for your money. I'm looking at: AgSil 16H, 4 pounds in a re-closable plastic container.
http://customhydronutrients.com/potassium-silicate-fertilizer-c-1_60_68/potassium-silicate-32-k2o-528-sio2-dry-powder-4-pounds-p-131.html
4# is about $60 which should last years - I think. The product description reads: 0.7 grams in one gallon of water yeilds 98ppm SiO2 or 46ppm Si, and 49ppm K
The problem is I don't know what elemental PPM of SI or K the Armor SI is adding at the 1.25ML/gallon strength I presently use it at. I'm firing away an email to GH hoping they can answer that question. I couldn't find any documentation on GH's website about what elemental PPM of each element is actually being added at any given strength. It likes like a "Just trust us" theme. God forbid they should inform their customers what's actually in their product. Yet another reason to gravitate away from GH altogether. I'll let y'all know if I get a response from GH.

My goal is to find a viable replacement for Armor SI which is just an overpriced mixture of water, potassium, and silicate. If I can figure out the application rate with the AgSil to get nearly the same elemental PPM's that I'm presently adding with Armor SI then I should be able to seemlesly integrate the AgSil and eliminate the GH bottle. A very overpriced GH bottle I might add. If you're using AgSil what application rate are you applying it at?

I did some searching through the forums here and some people are using AgSil @1g/gallon which would equal about 60 30 gallon reservoir fills versus about 100 reservoir fills with GH Armor SI. The caveat here is I have no idea what elemental PPM's my 1.25ML of Armor SI is actually adding. Is it half the elemental PPM's of what AgSil is adding? In that case I could half the application rate from 1 gram per gallon of AgSil to .5g/gallon which increases the longevity of the product to about 120 reservoir fills. Either way it doesn't seem like there is any significant savings of any kind to be had here. I think I just figured out I'm chasing my tail. It's a good thing I had nothing better to do this morning. In a nutshell I think it's possible the AgSil could be a slightly better deal, but it's marginal at best. A better use of my time would be sourcing an alternative to Maxi Grow and Bloom. $212 for 50# is pretty steep when you can buy the same quantity of Jack's or Mega Crop for almost half the price. The only problem is I tried Jack's and had mixed results. That was before I switched to RO water though. I might experiment with Jack's again on a few plants. If they do just as well as the others on the maxi feed I would have no reservations switching after I depleted my stock of maxi grow and bloom.

 

[Cabrone]

I found these charts in another thread

Custom Hydro, Water Wise Hydroponic and Organic Fertilizers

Commercial hydroponic and organic cannabis fertilizer supplier.

customhydronutrients.com

 

[Cabrone]

I missed the important

 

[jonnynobody]

View attachment 4728330
I missed the important

The missing piece of the puzzle here is how many ppm of Si and K are in GH's product I'm currently using. Awaiting their response.

 

[jonnynobody]

Got a response from GH:

In response to your question, see the elemental content at 1.25 ml / gal for Armor Si.

All numbers are in PPM

Sum of K

12.4

Sum of Si

17.564

Sum of K2O	15.0
Sum of SiO2	37.6
Sum of TDS	70.0

 

[xtsho]

The Agsil is going to be much stronger and make much more. Looks like the Armour is diluted significantly like most other bottled additives. The Agsil is going to be much more cost effective.

The Armour SI is 0-0-4 and the Agsil is 0-0-32.

.5 grams of Agsil in a gallon will provide 35ppm K and 33ppm Si. So .25 grams would be 17.5ppm K and 16.5ppm SI

There is a link to composition under Description.

SI-GROW | Powder SILICATE ADDITIVE | Agsil 16H | MBFerts Bulk Wholesale Hydroponic Equipment Dealer

MBFERTS SI-GROW | Powder SILICATE ADDITIVE | Agsil 16H Silica Booster | Agsil 16H Potassium Silicate, Soluble Silica Powder Agsil 16H Potassium Silicate, Soluble Silica Powder also aids in resistance to drought by reducing water loss, and in some cases, it may increase growth and yield...

www.mbferts.com

 

[jonnynobody]

Now let's compare:
Armor Si @ my current rate of 1.25ML =
12.4 PPM K
17.564 PPM Si

AgSil @ 1g/gallon:
49 PPM K
46 PPM Si

To achieve a similar elemental profile using AgSil I would need to reduce the 1 g/gallon accordingly to:
12.4/49=.25% (roughly)
I can reduce 1g/gallon by 75% to .25g/gallon to achieve a nearly identical elemental profile.
.25 x 49 = 12.4
.25 x 46 = 11.5

AgSil has a slightly different elemental profile than GH, so an exact replica of the PPM profile is not possible. AgSil has nearly = amounts of K and Si providing slightly more K than Si whereas GH has 41% more Si than K.

.5g/gallon would provide the following profile with AgSil:
24.5 ppm K
23 ppm Si

Again, AgSil is about $60 for 4# delivered from customhydronutrients.com which gets me 120 reservoir fills at the above listed elemental PPM.

Much stronger than GH's product. @ 1 g/gallon I calculated 60 30 gallon reservoir fills which is far too strong. If I do .5g/gallon I achieve a higher elemental ppm than GH's product and I get 120 reservoir fills for about $60.

GH is selling Armor Si on Amazon for about $32/gallon. I could purchase 2 gallons for the price of 4# AgSil. Those 2 gallons contain 7,570.82 ML. @ 1.25 ML/gallon in a 30 gallon reservoir I am using 37.5ML with each reservoir fill. 7570.82ML/37.5=201.88 reservoir fills.

While AgSil provides double the amount of K and about 75% of the amount of Si I generally don't have a need or desire to increase the rate of elemental PPM's I've been using if I were to switch to AgSil making GH's Armor Si a significantly better value.

201.88 res fills with 2 gallons of Armor Si @ 1.25ML/gallon I've been using.
120 res fills with AgSil @ .5g/gallon with a higher elemental profile than Armor Si by 50% on K and about 25% more Si.

 

[xtsho]

I'm assuming you're more interested in the Si than the K and in that case the Agsil is going to be extremely more cost effective. Actually it isn't even close cost wise. The Agsil wins hands down. But that's the case for anything you get and mix yourself instead of buying it already mixed in a bottle.

 

[Wastei]

Not Agsil but I order "water glass" locally. One gallon at 33% Potassium Silicate cost about 15 bucks.

You have pure potassium silicate, sodium silicate and combination of both. In "water glass" that is. Look for just 100% Potassium Silicate and water.

 

[jonnynobody]

The Agsil is going to be much stronger and make much more. Looks like the Armour is diluted significantly like most other bottled additives. The Agsil is going to be much more cost effective.

The Armour SI is 0-0-4 and the Agsil is 0-0-32.

.5 grams of Agsil in a gallon will provide 35ppm K and 33ppm Si. So .25 grams would be 17.5ppm K and 16.5ppm SI

There is a link to composition under Description.

SI-GROW | Powder SILICATE ADDITIVE | Agsil 16H | MBFerts Bulk Wholesale Hydroponic Equipment Dealer

MBFERTS SI-GROW | Powder SILICATE ADDITIVE | Agsil 16H Silica Booster | Agsil 16H Potassium Silicate, Soluble Silica Powder Agsil 16H Potassium Silicate, Soluble Silica Powder also aids in resistance to drought by reducing water loss, and in some cases, it may increase growth and yield...

www.mbferts.com

Your elemental numbers on AgSil are incorrect.

Edited: Checking the AgSil numbers again. I may be incorrect.

 

[jonnynobody]

I'm assuming you're more interested in the Si than the K and in that case the Agsil is going to be extremely more cost effective. Actually it isn't even close cost wise. The Agsil wins hands down. But that's the case for anything you get and mix yourself instead of buying it already mixed in a bottle.

What data are you basing your statement on? I have no doubt or concerns that AgSil is a fine product. However, I don't see any data that indicates AgSil is a better value. Am I missing something?

Edited: My numbers were indeed incorrect. The rates provided for AgSil were at the .7g/gallon rate. I completely excluded .3g from the equation which produced an inaccurate number for the number of reservoir fills the product provides. I think a simple .3x120+120 should correct the numbers. I arrive at 156 reservoir fills with that calculation using AgSil. GH still comes out on top as far as value it seems.

 

[xtsho]

What data are you basing your statement on? I have no doubt or concerns that AgSil is a fine product. However, I don't see any data that indicates AgSil is a better value. Am I missing something?

From the link to MBFerts I posted.

Agsil 16H Potassium Silicate, Soluble Silica Powder nutrient composition is approximately:

Potassium:

K = 26.56%

K2O = 32%


Silica:

SiO2 = 52.8%

Si = 24.6%

O2 = 28.2%​

If you take (1) gallon of R.O. water and add (.50) gram of Agsil 16H you would have 35ppm (K) Potassium and 33ppm (Si) Silica in solution.

 

[TintEastwood]

EDIT - Based on this calculator...

Per 1ml. Gh is around...
26ppm Si
9ppm K


As a cocoholic I like the low K.


Mixing matters.

 

[xtsho]

453 grams in a pound. .25 grams to make a gallon at the numbers I posted = 1800 gallons.

I also have a jar of the Agsil and the label states 0.7 grams per gallon = 49ppm K and 98 ppm Si02 or 46ppm Si. It is possible my math is incorrect but I don't think so as it's not my math but the math from Agsil and MBferts.

 

[jonnynobody]

From the link to MBFerts I posted.

Agsil 16H Potassium Silicate, Soluble Silica Powder nutrient composition is approximately:

Potassium:

K = 26.56%

K2O = 32%


Silica:

SiO2 = 52.8%

Si = 24.6%

O2 = 28.2%​

If you take (1) gallon of R.O. water and add (.50) gram of Agsil 16H you would have 35ppm (K) Potassium and 33ppm (Si) Silica in solution.

Thank you for clarifying. I screwed the pooch on the numbers assuming those elemental PPM's were at the rate of 1g/gallon when it was clearly .7g/gallon. It appears that .25g/gallon of AgSil would provide nearly the same elemental profile as Armor Si.

 

[jonnynobody]

.7g AgSil provides 46 PPM Si and 49 PPM K
How much per gram?
Multiply 46 x .3 + 46 = 59.8 PPM Si per g/gallon
Multiply 49 x.3 + 49 = 63.7 PPM K per g/gallon

@ .25g/gallon of AgSil I calculated 241.6 reservoir fills with 4# AgSil with the following elemental PPM:
.25 x 59.8 = 14.95 PPM Si
.25 x 63.7 = 15.92 PPM K

Now we can compare the elemental PPM's versus Armor Si as provided by GH @ 1.25ML/gallon I've been using:

Sum of K

12.4

Sum of Si

17.564

AgSil is a little short in Si, but provides more K. How many reservoir fills would I get at the .25g/gallon rate with a 30 gallon reservoir?

How many grams in a pound? 453.592
How many grams is applied in a 30 gallon reservoir? .25 x 30 = 7.5 grams.
How many grams of AgSil in a 4# container? 453.592 x4 = 1,814.368 grams.
1814.368 / 7.5 = 241 reservoir fills.

At .25g/gallon AgSil is slightly under the elemental profile of Armor Si @1.25ML/gallon.
Let's adjust to .3g/gallon and see what happens:
.3 x 59.8 = 17.94 PPM Si/gallon
.3 x 63.7 = 19.11 PPM K/gallon

Now let's compare against Armor Si:

Sum of K

12.4

Sum of Si

17.564

AgSil @ .3g/gallon provides more of each element. Now how many reservoirs @ .3g/gallon in a 4# container?

1814.368g in 4#
How many grams will go into a 30 gallon reservoir? .3 x 30 = 9grams
1814.368/9 = 201 reservoir fills @ the following elemental PPM's for about $60 delivered:
At .25g/gallon AgSil is slightly under the elemental profile of Armor Si @1.25ML/gallon.
.3 x 59.8 = 17.94 PPM Si/gallon
.3 x 63.7 = 19.11 PPM K/gallon

I'm not seeing any huge savings going with AgSil. Is it a great product? Sure. Does it provide a better value? Damn near equal.

 

[jonnynobody]

Not Agsil but I order "water glass" locally. One gallon at 33% Potassium Silicate cost about 15 bucks.

You have pure potassium silicate, sodium silicate and combination of both. In "water glass" that is. Look for just 100% Potassium Silicate and water.

That's cheap my friend. Super cheap

 

[xtsho]

Not a huge savings. On e pound of Agsil is $17 but the price drops considerably with more volume. 4 pounds is $44. 20 pounds is $156. So 964 reservoir fills for $44. A couple hundred dollars if buying 4 pounds at a time. Not all that much but if you're cheap like me and try and save as much as possible it's not a bad savings.

 

[rkymtnman]

i've used Armor Si for a few years off and on and to be honest I can't tell a difference.