Top 5 Breeders & strain

[JoeBlow5823]

Yep, but it goes to show that its not that airy buds are something one can not escape with autos, its just that most autos are bred like shit. Often when you got one good thing, you got another very bad..

But a good breeder could make an auto that is potent, dense, relatively large and not hermie.

Maybe. The thing with photos is that the genetics are already so good that even a shitty breeder still puts out pretty damn good genetics where it takes a hell of a lot more work to make a good auto. And being able to clone makes everything that much more consistent. For instance when Archive does a re-release, he can just pull a bunch of clones and pollinate them so he knows exactly what sort of seeds will be produced. There are a crazy number of feminized moonbow 75 crosses out there- no single auto could produce enough pollen to make that many seeds. You cant have autoflower mothers and fathers that come from well proven clones that people have been growing for years. Anyone can cross say a cut of pre98 bubba or GG4 with just about anything and it will be pretty damn good. Its a simple matter of obtaining two clones and reversing one of them to pollinate the other. Creating a good autoflower cross is a whole different ball game.

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

well shit, send some links if you don't mind.

Quantum Boards from https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/

 

[JoeBlow5823]

Quantum Boards from https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/


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Wow shes a real beauty. How much $ do you have into lights and how many total watts are you running?

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

Wow shes a real beauty. How much $ do you have into lights and how many total watts are you running?

A lot...lol. They are not cheap but they are amazing and the flexibility to move them around and orient them anyway you want is a big deal for me.
I'm in the process of building a new room and it will have 38 quantum boards. I only have 27 of them purchased - inventories are low at HLG.

 

[CannaOnerStar]

Maybe. The thing with photos is that the genetics are already so good that even a shitty breeder still puts out pretty damn good genetics where it takes a hell of a lot more work to make a good auto. And being able to clone makes everything that much more consistent. For instance when Archive does a re-release, he can just pull a bunch of clones and pollinate them so he knows exactly what sort of seeds will be produced. There are a crazy number of feminized moonbow 75 crosses out there- no single auto could produce enough pollen to make that many seeds. You cant have autoflower mothers and fathers that come from well proven clones that people have been growing for years. Anyone can cross say a cut of pre98 bubba or GG4 with just about anything and it will be pretty damn good. Its a simple matter of obtaining two clones and reversing one of them to pollinate the other. Creating a good autoflower cross is a whole different ball game.

Im sure you could take a tissue culture from an auto and clone them that way and you can take cuttings and store them in fridge, but ofc not indefinitely. Its just that most dont care to breed th emproperly. They have some or maybe couple breeder autos they cross with new hot photo strains and then slab a same name, but with added auto on it. Doing this ofc leads no where in long term.

But if you breed autos like mephisto does for example, you can take things further and further and continue development. Sure its not as fast with autos than with photos, but it can be done.

Runtz auto bred shitty in shortest amount time possible sells better than some actually good auto strain with a unique name.. And it takes more work to make that good strain, so most opt for making shitty autos that sell because of their name and dont even try to properly take things further

 

[JoeBlow5823]

Im sure you could take a tissue culture from an auto and clone them that way and you can take cuttings and store them in fridge, but ofc not indefinitely. Its just that most dont care to breed th emproperly. They have some or maybe couple breeder autos they cross with new hot photo strains and then slab a same name, but with added auto on it. Doing this ofc leads no where in long term.

But if you breed autos like mephisto does for example, you can take things further and further and continue development. Sure its not as fast with autos than with photos, but it can be done.

Runtz auto bred shitty in shortest amount time possible sells better than some actually good auto strain with a unique name.. And it takes more work to make that good strain, so most opt for making shitty autos that sell because of their name and dont even try to properly take things further

Cloning autos is basically impossible. If you do it, the clone will start flowering almost immediately.... With photos you can leave a clone in veg for a year or two easily while you figure out if its mother made good seeds or not. And when you find out which combination made the best seeds, you can pull those clones and make a bunch more of those seeds.

I know with good breeders like Mephisto things can be refined over time. But thats where any old joe blow can get two top notch photoperiod clones, reverse one of them, have them do sexy sexy time, and end up with a billion feminized seeds that are basically guaranteed to have pretty decent genetics. It only takes that joe blow a few months and a small grow setup to make a massive batch of good fem photoperiod seeds where it takes Mephisto a decade of hard work and very large grow setup to start getting good stable genetics.

 

[JoeBlow5823]

A lot...lol. They are not cheap but they are amazing and the flexibility to move them around and orient them anyway you want is a big deal for me.
I'm in the process of building a new room and it will have 38 quantum boards. I only have 27 of them purchased - inventories are low at HLG.

Yeah what you are doing is clearly working well. I just couldnt see making an investment like that. What kind of yield are you looking at as far as grams/watt?

 

[CannaOnerStar]

Cloning autos is basically impossible. If you do it, the clone will start flowering almost immediately.... With photos you can leave a clone in veg for a year or two easily while you figure out if its mother made good seeds or not. And when you find out which combination made the best seeds, you can pull those clones and make a bunch more of those seeds.

I know with good breeders like Mephisto things can be refined over time. But thats where any old joe blow can get two top notch photoperiod clones, reverse one of them, have them do sexy sexy time, and end up with a billion feminized seeds that are basically guaranteed to have pretty decent genetics. It only takes that joe blow a few months and a small grow setup to make a massive batch of good fem photoperiod seeds where it takes Mephisto a decade of hard work and very large grow setup to start getting good stable genetics.

Yes but the question is whether some have already been able to breed good autos that fit all the criteria or dense strong etc and phenos arent all over the place. If some have managed to get reliably to similar levels to average good photo with autos and most still breed some autos that are way lower quality. Wouldnt that then mean that its that most breeders suck with autos, not that autos themselves suck?

And yes you wont be getting the similar quality from autos that you get from top photos, not in a while at least and by the time you do, photos have likely gone also better and autos are still a bit behind.

If you take a cutting from an auto, it will take a while to root, storing it in fridge would keep it alive, but not make it grow. You could wait it out until you know which one of the plants gave the best smoke and then pollinate that, or reverse it to pollinate others. Yes there are limits to this with autos much more than with photos, but it can be utilised. Also like i mentioned with cloning using tissue cultures, well it should work just fine with autos and you could do same stuff with it than with photos. But it would be more expensive.

The point is that most auto breeders dont do what mephisto does. What mephisto does takes the genes further and it shows in their quality compared to most. And when we are talking about whether autos are good or not or what autos are like, we should talk about whats the best autos can do in good hands with good genes, not what newbies do with autos from shitty breeders. With photos we always talk about whats top notch, like you here mentioning crossing two top notch photos. Why let the top notch photos define whats photos are like, but still use average/shitty auto breeders define what autos are like? Makes no sense, this is my point

 

[JoeBlow5823]

Yes but the question is whether some have already been able to breed good autos that fit all the criteria or dense strong etc and phenos arent all over the place. If some have managed to get reliably to similar levels to average good photo with autos and most still breed some autos that are way lower quality. Wouldnt that then mean that its that most breeders suck with autos, not that autos themselves suck?

And yes you wont be getting the similar quality from autos that you get from top photos, not in a while at least and by the time you do, photos have likely gone also better and autos are still a bit behind.

If you take a cutting from an auto, it will take a while to root, storing it in fridge would keep it alive, but not make it grow. You could wait it out until you know which one of the plants gave the best smoke and then pollinate that, or reverse it to pollinate others. Yes there are limits to this with autos much more than with photos, but it can be utilised. Also like i mentioned with cloning using tissue cultures, well it should work just fine with autos and you could do same stuff with it than with photos. But it would be more expensive.

The point is that most auto breeders dont do what mephisto does. What mephisto does takes the genes further and it shows in their quality compared to most. And when we are talking about whether autos are good or not or what autos are like, we should talk about whats the best autos can do in good hands with good genes, not what newbies do with autos from shitty breeders. With photos we always talk about whats top notch, like you here mentioning crossing two top notch photos. Why let the top notch photos define whats photos are like, but still use average/shitty auto breeders define what autos are like? Makes no sense, this is my point

I totally get what you are saying. We let top notch photos define what photos are like because even a shitty breeder can put out top notch quality or at least close to it. To find shitty photo genetics I would have to..... i dont even know, go to the slums of detroit and try to find some brick weed with seeds in it? Is brick weed even a thing anymore? But finding shitty auto genetics..... well they are everywhere.

You have to look at them as a whole.... Most photo breeders are putting out really good quality genetics with very little effort. On average, most auto breeders are putting out mediocre genetics at best. Also due to the ability to clone photos, you can buy clones of plants that have been pheno hunted out of batches of over a hundred plants. When you are growing clones of "the best plant out of a hundred" compared to a bunch of seeds even from a top breeder like Mephisto, the clone run will always win because the seed run will never be 100% top notch phenos.

 

[CannaOnerStar]

I totally get what you are saying. We let top notch photos define what photos are like because even a shitty breeder can put out top notch quality or at least close to it. To find shitty photo genetics I would have to..... i dont even know, go to the slums of detroit and try to find some brick weed with seeds in it? Is brick weed even a thing anymore? But finding shitty auto genetics..... well they are everywhere.

You have to look at them as a whole.... Most photo breeders are putting out really good quality genetics with very little effort. On average, most auto breeders are putting out mediocre genetics at best. Also due to the ability to clone photos, you can buy clones of plants that have been pheno hunted out of batches of over a hundred plants. When you are growing clones of "the best plant out of a hundred" compared to a bunch of seeds even from a top breeder like Mephisto, the clone run will always win because the seed run will never be 100% top notch phenos.

I used to grow a bit and knew pretty much all strains and what they were like over 12 years ago then i took a break. It seems to me that strains were less prone to hermying, did not have as drastic pheno variation etc than strains today. These are things that are due to bad breeding. Sure the THC levels have gone up in top strains and overall strains make better bud and average strains have gotten better, but at the same time more of these issues due to bad breeding are popping up.

So no i dont fully agree that everyone can effortlessly make good genes today with photos. Sure they can make genes easily that produce fire buds and good yields, but to have good genes, its more than that. But ofc when your top photos are better than top autos, and you mix the top photos, you get better than when mixing top autos.

Also mephisto does use photos in breeding autos, its just that they dont use them like most use them. So yea there are some top photo genes in mephistos autoflowers as well. The thing is that they can then make 10 generations selecting the best ones from that combo and then mix with some other photo and do it all over again. Yes its slower like this than when breeding photos, but it can be done and has been done to pretty good degree by few, even tho majority just makes a mix with their breeding auto and one photo, then makes few generations to make it autoflower and release the strain. Then again the same thing with new photo. Sure their breeding autos develop a bit over time, at least for some(i wouldnt wonder if some just had tons of old pollen stored they use on all), well you know the difference between good autos and what people often breed.


For example, i had some low ryder #1 x matanuska tundra F3 seeds made by some random guy like almost 15 years ago and some low ryder #1 x northern lights F3 also made by some different random guy. Then i mixed these without selecting anything and end result seemed to be slightly above average of what many auto breeders do today.

I also had some other low ryder #1 pollen tossed around by random people strains from back in the days and quality has been pretty similar to average autos today made by "professional breeders".


Either most auto breeders dont care and are just money hungry assholes who just want to sell easy crap to newbies and you should not support that sort of people or they are crappy breeders and you should look for another.

 

[JoeBlow5823]

most auto breeders dont care and are just money hungry assholes who just want to sell easy crap to newbies

Exactly. Im just saying the same lazy money hungry assholes are able to make much higher quality photos if that makes sense.

 

[DrHill]

A lot...lol. They are not cheap but they are amazing and the flexibility to move them around and orient them anyway you want is a big deal for me.
I'm in the process of building a new room and it will have 38 quantum boards. I only have 27 of them purchased - inventories are low at HLG.

yeah i think you got me sold on HLG if you’re willing to make such an investment in them. Thanks. You too JoeBlow. you guys are super knowledgeable. I feel like a first grader compared to you all. Basically have Cannabis Doctorates with a Masters in Lighting haha

 

[DrHill]

What are some new strains you all are running right now that you really like? and what breeders? (feel free to show off some buds)

 

[JoeBlow5823]

What are some new strains you all are running right now that you really like? and what breeders? (feel free to show off some buds)

Archive seeds Rose Gold. So dense you will break the teeth off your grinder if your not careful.

 

[DrHill]

Archive seeds Rose Gold. So dense you will break the teeth off your grinder if your not careful.
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Ahh this is the one you were talking about the other day lol

 

[Dividedsky]

1.Baneys Farm
2.Greenhouse seed co
3.Dutch Passion
4. TH Seeds
5. Nirvana
^ this list is a joke, wouldn't order from these Dutch breeders/ Spanish seed co, it's not 2001, we have better options stateside now.
Real list-

1. {Thug Pug Genetics}- one of the best breeders we have in the game right now, grew some of my most stunning strains in years with gromers gear. You want top- shelf elite flower, go with thugpug. My favs are puta breath and sherb breath. You could literally not go wrong throwing a dart at their menu and getting something good.

2. {Dungeon Vault Genetics}- DVG is easily tied with thugpug for my favorite breeder. I always get the most colorful, frosted the fuck out- purp'd bud. Love theyre flagship strain grandpas breath. Also for cookie type strains, they are, without a doubt- the most stable. Dvg, also like thugpug only offer regs seeds but my last run with dungeon vault, I popped a full pack of Purple Jellato and got something like 8 females out of one pack of 11 reg seeds! That's great ratios. Lastly have to mention dvg and the terps/smells you get with their flower- which is the absolute best. I ran a pack of Brandywine not to long ago and the flower literally smelled and tasted like grape big league chew gum, it was insane. Love DVG!

3. {In-House Genetics} Alright good ole in-house....love or hate em. They tend to get a lot of both on this board. So here it is- I've had 1 issue with one of there strains herming on me but I believe it was due to my friend that mislabeled cuts. Alright got that out of the way, now on to the good stuff- so in house has been good to me, I have ran decent amount of their genetics and have gotten killer results. In-house bag appeal is always top-notch. You'll hear complaints of some of their strains having weak potency and I think that can be true for some phenos you get when popping a pack. What gets people scratching their heads is- once in a while they will grow one of the most stunning, trich'd out plants they've done in a while and then the smoke is just meh, not memorable . . Think it has something to do with the purple punch and sometimes platinum they use. That being said I recently grew some do•lato from ihg that got you stoned to the bone. Shit got my friends and I rocked, and it absolutely reeked of gas/fuel, was a great strain. I have multiple cuts of good phenos of in-house in my garden and will keep em for a while. Another great strain from ihg is slurricane. Slurricane>when you find the right pheno-you know. The pheno I have is some of the best smelling bud around and really dazzles people. Absolutely beautiful purple to neon green buds with trich'd out colas. So for me in-house is legit, but proceed with caution and when popping packs of new strains keep and eye out for nanners or any signs of herms. Also with new strains- feed lightly, don't over feed, see what they like and slowly build up till you get them dialed in.

4. {Dynasty Genetics} Hailing from the Pacific Northwest, prop P and Dynasty are the real deal. They are the sleeper hit in the seed game. Don't hear much hype, don't think they really want to play into that game, but trust me and other growers> Dynasty puts out the dank heat! Anytype of high end blueberry/fruit type crosses, he's your man. His plants grow beautifully and terps are insanely mouth watering. I have run his Carmel Candy Kush, Blue Magoo, Huckleberry Kush and Pineapple Fields and all were stunning. You can't go wrong with Dynasty.

5. {Clearwater Genetics}- so being honest I have not ran this breeders packs, will be in the next few weeks.. Going by what my close friends and friends from here on rollitup that I trust have told me, these guys are the real fucking deal. I have seen their grow pics and flower and these are new age -type, beyond top-shelf genetics to bring us in to a new decade of high-end Marijuana. I can tell by Clearwater's Instagram page that they've worked very hard selecting the perfect strains and crosses for there menu. I believe they offer only fems which is great for me at the moment because I don't want to halt up my production in any flower room sexing plants and having to pull males, etc. Someone from here(riu) I trust has told me he has ran multiple packs, think over 3+ and has had not a herm, always a very good sign.
They have now 4 main strains that they use for their crosses- they're {mai tai}~( sunset sherb x purple punch)
{apple fritter}~(animal cookies x sour apple)
{creamsicle}~{cookies n cream x ?)
{runtz}~( gelato x zkittlez)
Now basically their menu is basically the 4 strains I just listed above, crossed with a bunch of elites, for example-
Sugar rush- (pyxy stix x mai tai)
Bittersweet- (GMO x mai tai)
Cereal bars- (Fruity pebbles og x creamsicle)
Lemon freeze pop-( lemon tree x creamsicle)
Sunset Cider-( sunset sherbert x apple fritter)
Breath minz- kush mints x runtz
They also cross up their main strains like-
Apple Tartz- (Apple fritter x runtz)
Anyways got about 4 packs of them and are going to pop them right away. Clearwater is a somewhat newer breeder that I'm really excited about. Sorry about the length of this post, hope it helps!

 

[DrHill]

1.Baneys Farm
2.Greenhouse seed co
3.Dutch Passion
4. TH Seeds
5. Nirvana
^ this list is a joke, wouldn't order from these Dutch breeders/ Spanish seed co, it's not 2001, we have better options stateside now.
Real list-

1. {Thug Pug Genetics}- one of the best breeders we have in the game right now, grew some of my most stunning strains in years with gromers gear. You want top- shelf elite flower, go with thugpug. My favs are puta breath and sherb breath. You could literally not go wrong throwing a dart at their menu and getting something good.

2. {Dungeon Vault Genetics}- DVG is easily tied with thugpug for my favorite breeder. I always get the most colorful, frosted the fuck out- purp'd bud. Love theyre flagship strain grandpas breath. Also for cookie type strains, they are, without a doubt- the most stable. Dvg, also like thugpug only offer regs seeds but my last run with dungeon vault, I popped a full pack of Purple Jellato and got something like 8 females out of one pack of 11 reg seeds! That's great ratios. Lastly have to mention dvg and their terps/smells you get with their flower- which !)are the absolute best. I ran a pack of Brandywine not to long ago and the flower literally smelled and tasted like grape big league chew gum, it was insane. Love DVG!

3. {In-House Genetics} Alright good ole in-house....love or hate em. They tend to get a lot of both on this board. So here it is- I've had 1 issue with one of there strains herming on me but I believe it was due to my friend that mislabeled cuts. Alright got that out of the way, now on to the good stuff- so in house has been good to me, I have ran decent amount of their genetics and have gotten killer results. In-house bag appeal is always top-notch. You'll hear complaints of some of their strains having weak potency and I think that can be true for some phenos you get when popping a pack. What get people scratching their heads is- once in a while they will grow one of the most stunning, trich'd out plants they've done in a while and then the smoke is just meh, not memorable . . Think it has something to do with the purple punch and sometimes platinum they use. That being said I recently grew some do•lato from ihg that got you stoned to the bone. Shit got my friends and I rocked, and it absolutely reeked of gas/fuel, was a great strain. I have multiple cuts of good phenos of in-house in my garden and will keep em for a while. Another great strain from ihg is slurricane. Slurricane>when you find the right pheno-you know. The pheno I have is some of the best smelling bud around and really dazzles people. Absolutely beautiful purple to neon green buds with trich'd out colas. So for me in-house is legit, but proceed with caution and when popping packs of new strains keep and eye out for nanners or any signs of herms. Also with new strains- feed lightly, don't over feed, see what they like and slowly build up till you get them dialed in.

4. {Dynasty Genetics} Hailing from the Pacific Northwest, prop P and Dynasty are the real deal. They are the sleeper hit in the seed game. Don't hear much hype, don't think they really want to play into that game, but trust me and other growers> Dynasty puts out the dank heat! Anytype of high end blueberry/fruit type crosses, he's your man. His plants grow beautifully and terps are insanely mouth watering. I have run his Carmel Candy Kush, Vlue Magoo, Huckleberry Kush and Pineapple Fields and all were stunning. You can't go wrong with Dynasty.

5. {Clearwater Genetics}- so being honest I have not ran this breeders packs, will be in the next few weeks.. Going by what my close friends and friends from here on rollitup that I trust have told me, these guys are the real fucking deal. I have seen their grow pics and flower and these are new age -type, beyond top-shelf genetics to bring us in to a new decade of high-end Marijuana. I can tell by Clearwater's Instagram page that they've worked very hard selecting the perfects strains and crosses for there menu. I believe they offer only fems which is great for me at the moment because I don't want to halt up my production in any flower room seeing plants and having pull males, etc. Someone from here(riu) I trust has told me he has ran multiple packs, think over 3+ and has had not a herm, always a very good sign.
They have now 4 main strains that they use for their crosses- they're mai tai( sunset sherb x purple punch).....apple fritter( animal cookies x sour apple)...creamsicle.....and runtz( gelato x zkittlez)
Now basically their menu is basically the 4 strains I just listed above, crossed with a bunch of elites, for example-
Sugar rush- (pyxy stix x mai tai)
Bittersweet- (GMO x mai tai)
Cereal bars- (Fruity pebbles og x creamsicle)
Lemon freeze pop-( lemon tree x creamsicle)
Sunset Cider-( sunset sherbert x apple fritter)
Breath minz- kush mints x runtz
They also cross up their main strains like-
Apple Tartz- Apple fritter x runtz.
Anyways got about 4 packs of them and are going to pop them right away. Clearwater is a somewhat newer breeder that I'm really excited about. Sorry about the length of this post, hope it helps!

much respect!! No need to apologize, I appreciate the length of this post. Thanks for going in such detail. I love it here lol how long have you been growing?

 

[Dividedsky]

much respect!! No need to apologize, I appreciate the length of this post. Thanks for going in such detail. I love it here lol how long have you been growing?

Pretty long time- bought my first 1000watt in 2003 when I was 18. Took years off here and there so wasn't growing straight thru, especially when I was living and bartending in the city, I wasn't growing then.

 

[CannaOnerStar]

Exactly. Im just saying the same lazy money hungry assholes are able to make much higher quality photos if that makes sense.

Yeah, and im only saying that its not the fault of autoflowers themselves if most breeders breed crap and it doesent define how good an autoflower is. Instead if we want to compare auto vs photo, we should compare best of the best to each others and when you do that, well autos will lose ofc, but when you look at that auto, its nothing like most autos sold, but on another level.

These top autos have already gotten much better than what they used to be. If even if most cannot make this level autos, it doesent take away from the fact that there are now next level autoflowers. These are what we should all be looking at and forget all the trash breeders, which sadly stil lare most. But thats what allows them to do that shit, no one talking about for it as it truly is.

Im glad you are calling out this fact and giving respects to those breeders who deserve it! Most people just believe the hype and well

 

[JoeBlow5823]

Im glad you are calling out this fact and giving respects to those breeders who deserve it! Most people just believe the hype and well

Oh yeah ill gladly call out Fast Buds as trash. Never grown mephisto and never will because i like being able to fully control the size of a plant but everyone says they are top notch.