Elemental PPM feed schedule per growth phase

S

spek9

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

I've just switched from GH Flora to Jack's 5-12-26, Calcium Nitrate and Mono Potassium Phosphate. I've been doing deep research on nutrients in general and detail, and I'm finding very conflicting information on people's elemental PPM schedules all over the Internet.

I'm wanting to design a base schedule for all phases of growth that I can apply to my perpetual grow (and adjust as I go) and would like to know if others who keep track of each nutrient's PPM per phase could post their charts here for review.

It goes without saying that not everyone will agree as we all do certain things our own way for varying reasons, but I thought it would be nice to have a single place on this site to share and discuss.
 
kingromano

kingromano

Well-Known Member
spek9 said:
Hi all,

I've just switched from GH Flora to Jack's 5-12-26, Calcium Nitrate and Mono Potassium Phosphate. I've been doing deep research on nutrients in general and detail, and I'm finding very conflicting information on people's elemental PPM schedules all over the Internet.

I'm wanting to design a base schedule for all phases of growth that I can apply to my perpetual grow (and adjust as I go) and would like to know if others who keep track of each nutrient's PPM per phase could post their charts here for review.

It goes without saying that not everyone will agree as we all do certain things our own way for varying reasons, but I thought it would be nice to have a single place on this site to share and discuss.
Click to expand...
5-12-26 is perfect for budding phase. but you dont have enugh N for stretch, you will need a veg part to use in conjonction with the bloom phase during stretch (week 1-3).
i dont think you need a pk booster with this kind of formulation. but remember its a mid flower ratio. i wouldnt use it straight until week 4, or you will have senescence ( N deficiency)
and please dont look for N deficiency in end flowering its will kill your yields and your aromas
green and healthy until the end
 
S

spek9

Well-Known Member
kingromano said:
5-12-26 is perfect for budding phase. but you dont have enugh N for stretch, you will need a veg part to use in conjonction with the bloom phase during stretch (week 1-3).
i dont think you need a pk booster with this kind of formulation. but remember its a mid flower ratio. i wouldnt use it straight until week 4, or you will have senescence ( N deficiency)
and please dont look for N deficiency in end flowering its will kill your yields and your aromas
green and healthy until the end
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback!

I'm thinking that the Calnit will cover the N. I planned on using it throughout the veg period and into about week 2.5-3 of flower, then significantly reducing or eliminating it, and adding in some of the PK for weeks 3.5-6 or so of flower.

Interestingly, through my research the last couple of weeks, I've learned about senescence and its life cycle purpose. I've always been one to keep healthy until the very end, and that has been re-enforced throughout my research. I don't stop until I chop.

I'm scouring all manner of charts and analysis and people's opinions, but I think what this is really going to boil down to is use my own common sense that I've gained thus far through my investigation, combined with the experience here, and come up with my own formulation that works for my plants in their current environments.

I'm putting together some concise but loose reference tables and such that I'll put in this thread (and my personal grow journal) when I compile the data.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
not sure if you seen this but in the middle is 2 feed charts from mel frank and pH imbalance (not sure who he is)

also explains the Lucas formula. and a neat nute calc.

CannaStats - Nutrient Profiles for Cannabis

This page provides a common language spoken by all fertilizer solutions and a way to mix them for growing cannabis hydroponically. Sometimes referred to as the Lucas formula, this page explains the true origin of this well known proven formula and the project that led to its discovery. Emphasis...
www.angelfire.com
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
spek9 said:
Thanks for the feedback!

I'm thinking that the Calnit will cover the N. I planned on using it throughout the veg period and into about week 2.5-3 of flower, then significantly reducing or eliminating it, and adding in some of the PK for weeks 3.5-6 or so of flower.

Interestingly, through my research the last couple of weeks, I've learned about senescence and its life cycle purpose. I've always been one to keep healthy until the very end, and that has been re-enforced throughout my research. I don't stop until I chop.

I'm scouring all manner of charts and analysis and people's opinions, but I think what this is really going to boil down to is use my own common sense that I've gained thus far through my investigation, combined with the experience here, and come up with my own formulation that works for my plants in their current environments.

I'm putting together some concise but loose reference tables and such that I'll put in this thread (and my personal grow journal) when I compile the data.
Click to expand...
The calcium nitrate will cover both the N and the Ca requirements. I run a similar formula to Jacks and calcium nitrate.
 
S

spek9

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
The calcium nitrate will cover both the N and the Ca requirements. I run a similar formula to Jacks and calcium nitrate.
Click to expand...
I figured that, but thank you for confirming.

Don't know if it's appropriate, but being high which I'm often not, reason goes out the window, so I'd like to point out here that it was yourself that got me thinking alternatively about various nutrients, and you made me realize that spending so much on water filled bottles was ridiculous.

You were right, and I am appreciative. Not just for the cost savings, but for the depth of knowledge I'm learning in plant microbiology and how nutrients really work. All by just a simple quick discussion.
 
2

2com

Well-Known Member
I was trying to find the thread where we very briefly discussed Ca and S (sulfates in general) antagonism (which I remembered hearing) versus Ca and P antagonism which you mentioned, because of how companies separate calcium nitrate from the rest of the inputs - including sulfates and phosphates. And I can't message you.
I recently came across something stating that both are true. In fact there were so many antagonisms it made me wonder how anything can be uptaken by the plant, hah.


I'll definitely be watching this thread @spek9 (your name won't pop up in list). I've also been cruising around looking for some type of recommended elemental ppm ranges information for each element and coming up with very little. Specifically I was interested in Phosphorus.
I've heard 5-15ppm, and 12-24ppm - 24ppm being the "saturation point" and they recommended 20ppm as a good level.

I'd be very interested to hear what you, and others here are doing/feeding (in elemental ppm).

I can see why the metric of ppfd isn't completely widespread yet, even though it's better than "watts" or hanging height alone (without a reference of specific lighting tech, etc.), but I don't quite get how elemental ppm or a nutrient profile hasn't caught on, it doesn't cost anything and gives you a much better picture of what's going on, doesn't it?
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
2com said:
Phosphorus.
I've heard 5-15ppm, and 12-24ppm - 24ppm being the "saturation point" and they recommended 20ppm as a good level.
Click to expand...
i can't remember where i read it but they said over 60ppm was bad for P. i have to look to see if i can find the link for you.
 
Merlin1147

Merlin1147

Well-Known Member
I’m doing the same thing. Having fun getting creative using up what is in the cabinet first. I’m just not sure how to get a 3:1:2 NPK for veg using those three fertilizers. If you do using the CaNO3 then the Ca is sky high. Jacks Professional line has a 24-8-16 with micros that looks perfect. As for PPMs I use a simple spread sheet With a line for each fertilizer that gives me PPMs And ratios. Unfortunately it’s for liquids in mLs per gallon. when I make the change to water solubles I’ll have to make some changes to it.
 
R

RonnieB2

Well-Known Member
spek9 said:
Hi all,

I've just switched from GH Flora to Jack's 5-12-26, Calcium Nitrate and Mono Potassium Phosphate. I've been doing deep research on nutrients in general and detail, and I'm finding very conflicting information on people's elemental PPM schedules all over the Internet.

I'm wanting to design a base schedule for all phases of growth that I can apply to my perpetual grow (and adjust as I go) and would like to know if others who keep track of each nutrient's PPM per phase could post their charts here for review.

It goes without saying that not everyone will agree as we all do certain things our own way for varying reasons, but I thought it would be nice to have a single place on this site to share and discuss.
Click to expand...
I switched to jacks too, and was pleased. Then added humic acid fulvic acid aminos growers recharge, and a few other goodies and it got better. I actually need less fertilizer now, lower ppm, and better results a guy from UGA who works for Jacks came up and printed it out for me. Heres the cliff notes.
 

Attachments

TintEastwood

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
Merlin1147 said:
I’m doing the same thing. Having fun getting creative using up what is in the cabinet first. I’m just not sure how to get a 3:1:2 NPK for veg using those three fertilizers. If you do using the CaNO3 then the Ca is sky high. Jacks Professional line has a 24-8-16 with micros that looks perfect. As for PPMs I use a simple spread sheet With a line for each fertilizer that gives me PPMs And ratios. Unfortunately it’s for liquids in mLs per gallon. when I make the change to water solubles I’ll have to make some changes to it.
Click to expand...
FYI Related. I was just playing with numbers for Jacks bagged 12-4-16. (3-1-4)

Per gram.
Per gallon.
Jacks-12-4-16-calc.png

Jacks-12-4-16-PPM.png
 
TintEastwood

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
i can't remember where i read it but they said over 60ppm was bad for P. i have to look to see if i can find the link for you.
Click to expand...
Some P info here, what say yall'?


"While the target level of P required by greenhouse-grown cannabis is not currently known, we would speculate based on the scientific data from other species that levels of 15 ppm to 20 ppm P supplied on a constant basis should be all that is required."
 
2

2com

Well-Known Member
RonnieB2 said:
I switched to jacks too, and was pleased. Then added humic acid fulvic acid aminos growers recharge, and a few other goodies and it got better. I actually need less fertilizer now, lower ppm, and better results a guy from UGA who works for Jacks came up and printed it out for me. Heres the cliff notes.
Click to expand...
Same experience when fulvic/humic and aminos (alone or in combo) were added.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
TintEastwood said:
Some P info here, what say yall'?


"While the target level of P required by greenhouse-grown cannabis is not currently known, we would speculate based on the scientific data from other species that levels of 15 ppm to 20 ppm P supplied on a constant basis should be all that is required."
Click to expand...
Lucas is a proven formula and it's P is 100ppm. that's strange that only 20ppm is all that's needed.
 
2

2com

Well-Known Member
TintEastwood said:
Some P info here, what say yall'?


"While the target level of P required by greenhouse-grown cannabis is not currently known, we would speculate based on the scientific data from other species that levels of 15 ppm to 20 ppm P supplied on a constant basis should be all that is required."
Click to expand...
I read that here somewhere the other day too, was it you who posted it?
I've heard that range cited or suggested (from studies/experiments) three or four times since trying to find information on it. 5-15, 12-24ppm.
 
2

2com

Well-Known Member
Cannabis Cultivation and Science Podcast:
Link to Tad Hussey's YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvzklytMGuvSOa4hx0QxhUA/videos

He has great guests on, and great conversation about cannabis related research. (He's had Jeff Lowenfels [author of the "Teaming With" books on several times and there's some interesting discussion in those as well).

Ep. 30, Travis Higginbotham, @46:30 (51:01 mentions 'P' specifically. 12-24ppm.)
Ep. 43, Alison Justice (mentions 'P' specifically. 5-15ppm, references old cannabis study.)
Ep. 59, Paul Cockson (discusses various toxicities, deficiencies, and some published papers they've done. mentions they're currently running, what sounds like, experiments to investigate ranges of specific elements for cannabis.)

All worth listening in full (you can speed up the video/audio by 1.25 or whatever).

Paul Cockson refers to something called the Hoagland Solution, I'd definitely listen to this podcast, and look more into that solution/profile. It might be an interesting starting point for experimenting with nutrient profiles. Note the 'P' in this fertilizer mix, especially compare to everything else (it's 31ppm).:

The Hoaglands Solution for Hydroponic Cultivation – Science in Hydroponics

scienceinhydroponics.com scienceinhydroponics.com
Britanica and wiki, etc have more information as well.

(edit: added hoagland profile):
N 210 ppm
K 235 ppm
Ca 200 ppm
P 31 ppm
S 64 ppm
Mg 48 ppm
B 0.5 ppm
Fe 1 to 5 ppm
Mn 0.5 ppm
Zn 0.05 ppm
Cu 0.02 ppm
Mo 0.01 ppm
 
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