Setting up a new grow in an Industrial Warehouse, NEED HELP!
- Thread starter sehnsee
- Start date
Bump up the 3 phase XD.I am also working on setting up a grow for a 1500 sq ft building.
Flower area is 30'x30'.Veg is 20'x20'.
400 amps should suffice,but iam trying to get 800 amps service installed for a future addition.
The dilemma is whether to install a 3 phase or not.If so the costs will go up because i'd have to add a step down transformer and other circuit breakers ,wiring etc.
The way we have it planned we have enough juice to cover,46x1k lights,4x 5 ton ac units.3 dehuyies ,and the rest of fans,scrubbers etc.
I plan on using the Gavita proline DE ,but iam not sure if i need the 277-347 ballasts to operate 400 v properly.Gavita says the 240 v ballast will fire up the 400 v bulb.But iam unsure of the performance between the 2. Saving amperage is nice ,i just don't think the cost associated with getting the 3 phase setup is worth it ,since Gavita says both ballasts fire up the bulb,but the difference is the voltage they run on.
I guess my question is would the bulb give me the same yield on the same ballasts?.
Flower area is 30'x30'.Veg is 20'x20'.
400 amps should suffice,but iam trying to get 800 amps service installed for a future addition.
The dilemma is whether to install a 3 phase or not.If so the costs will go up because i'd have to add a step down transformer and other circuit breakers ,wiring etc.
The way we have it planned we have enough juice to cover,46x1k lights,4x 5 ton ac units.3 dehuyies ,and the rest of fans,scrubbers etc.
I plan on using the Gavita proline DE ,but iam not sure if i need the 277-347 ballasts to operate 400 v properly.Gavita says the 240 v ballast will fire up the 400 v bulb.But iam unsure of the performance between the 2. Saving amperage is nice ,i just don't think the cost associated with getting the 3 phase setup is worth it ,since Gavita says both ballasts fire up the bulb,but the difference is the voltage they run on.
I guess my question is would the bulb give me the same yield on the same ballasts?.
Renfro
Well-Known Member
400v bulb = output voltage of the ballast, that has nothing to do with input voltage.
Lockedin
Well-Known Member
We run 3 phase for lights & AC in the studios - MASSIVE loads
I was in component engineering; meaning that my depth of knowledge on their side is a bit shallow - broscience really, since I have no real backing (well, 35 years in the studios is some backing I guess).
However - the three things that always stuck out about most lighting dept. were:
They use a TON of power and hoard it mercilessly! Need a stinger (extension cord)? Get a "juicer", want a surge strip? He'll get that for you too.
Danger - 3 phase requires a greater knowledge base to avoid killing yourself.
3 phase can be run cleaner - waves aligned through a power conditioner; translating to less ground noise in the studio and longer globe life - important with lights like a 25k xenon spot.
The transition to LED and other more efficient fixtures has caused 3 phase to begin to phase out (pun intended) of smaller studios, but larger studios with legacy equipment (tungsten, HMI, etc) still lean on 3 phase since they already have the equipment - building sized equipment - so there's no reason to change for now.
For our applications, 3 phase power seems a bit like hanging a picture with a sledgehammer - although this size grow space might be where the line blurs.
But again, I'm new and will be re-reading this thread for a WHILE
I was in component engineering; meaning that my depth of knowledge on their side is a bit shallow - broscience really, since I have no real backing (well, 35 years in the studios is some backing I guess).
However - the three things that always stuck out about most lighting dept. were:
They use a TON of power and hoard it mercilessly! Need a stinger (extension cord)? Get a "juicer", want a surge strip? He'll get that for you too.
Danger - 3 phase requires a greater knowledge base to avoid killing yourself.
3 phase can be run cleaner - waves aligned through a power conditioner; translating to less ground noise in the studio and longer globe life - important with lights like a 25k xenon spot.
The transition to LED and other more efficient fixtures has caused 3 phase to begin to phase out (pun intended) of smaller studios, but larger studios with legacy equipment (tungsten, HMI, etc) still lean on 3 phase since they already have the equipment - building sized equipment - so there's no reason to change for now.
For our applications, 3 phase power seems a bit like hanging a picture with a sledgehammer - although this size grow space might be where the line blurs.
But again, I'm new and will be re-reading this thread for a WHILE
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
Way I figure it for using a 1000w Hortilux HPS bulb is this.
A 1000w Hortilux HPS bulb is made to blast a 4 x 4 area. 16 square feet.
If you have 6700 sq/ft and 1 bulb covers 16 sq/ft?
6700 divided by 16 is 418.75... Rounded up is 419 1000w Hortilux HPS Bulbs.
A 1000w Hortilux HPS bulb is made to blast a 4 x 4 area. 16 square feet.
If you have 6700 sq/ft and 1 bulb covers 16 sq/ft?
6700 divided by 16 is 418.75... Rounded up is 419 1000w Hortilux HPS Bulbs.
Sade
Well-Known Member
Wait OP you got this whole warehouse with nothing installed and you dont even have a commercial grow license? Shit man I would find a financial adviser before moving forward. Then because government is enforcing strict cannabis laws you may want to have a lawyer in your pocket for any legal action.
So that we can better understand your intentions is there a set budget you have to cover the cost of build out, and expenses til making profit. 6700 sq ft would be quite expensive to build out and it would also require extensive knowledge and research of licensing, compliance, how to structure the business, taxes, ect.
The investment it would take to build out and maintain the entire 6700 Sq ft. facility until profitable would be an unwise investment without hiring a consultant and some other professionals (lawyer, accountant, ect.) Tax issues, business structuring, pay roll, and licensing are all issues that are different than most traditional businesses.
Now if you wanna build out a smaller area and see how it goes and scale up, the kind of money it takes to do that could be worth the gamble.
There is one more obstacle to overcome. Its if you can find someone to run the garden since you don't seem to have experience. To get a good grower motivated to go work for someone else it's gonna take a considerable salary. I guess if you hire the right consultant he could train your staff and set standard operating procedures and maybe be on call for issues.
The investment it would take to build out and maintain the entire 6700 Sq ft. facility until profitable would be an unwise investment without hiring a consultant and some other professionals (lawyer, accountant, ect.) Tax issues, business structuring, pay roll, and licensing are all issues that are different than most traditional businesses.
Now if you wanna build out a smaller area and see how it goes and scale up, the kind of money it takes to do that could be worth the gamble.
There is one more obstacle to overcome. Its if you can find someone to run the garden since you don't seem to have experience. To get a good grower motivated to go work for someone else it's gonna take a considerable salary. I guess if you hire the right consultant he could train your staff and set standard operating procedures and maybe be on call for issues.
Sade
Well-Known Member
Shit I would be fine making just 60k and doing that as my job. Then again I live in Humboldt county and grow as a hobby with a main job. People say when you depend on it for a living you can get pretty tired of them at times.
BIGBALLSJOE
Member
you just need to take one hot wire and a neutral
voltage between 2 hot wires= 400volts
voltage between 1 hot wire and neutral = 240v
thats what you need
like renfro said 400v is meant to run machine with synchrone motors, in this case you dont need no neutral wire
im no electrician but i think its pretty basic
ideally you want to balance the amp loads between the 3 phase
exemple = take 15 amp on the first hot wire, another 15 on the 2 nd and 13amp on the 3 rd ..
not 50amp on 1 hot and nothing on the others
voltage between 2 hot wires= 400volts
voltage between 1 hot wire and neutral = 240v
thats what you need
like renfro said 400v is meant to run machine with synchrone motors, in this case you dont need no neutral wire
im no electrician but i think its pretty basic
ideally you want to balance the amp loads between the 3 phase
exemple = take 15 amp on the first hot wire, another 15 on the 2 nd and 13amp on the 3 rd ..
not 50amp on 1 hot and nothing on the others
Renfro
Well-Known Member
You are incorrect with your math.
With split phase or single phase power, when we use both hot legs we multiply x 2 the leg voltage because they are 180 degrees apart. So two 120v legs make for 240 volts.
With three phase power where phases are 120 degrees apart, we multiply the leg voltage by the sqrt of 3 (1.72). So using 277 volt legs means we get 480 volts and not 554 volts.
I don't really get tired of growing, sometimes I get tired of a particular run and wish could just move on to the next.
I'd want over 200k a year to manage a grow that size. The hours it would take to manage a grow that size you might as well bring a camper and stay on site lol.
If you would work for 60k a year why go work for someone else. What are top shelf pounds going for there? At 2k each you only need to grow like 40 lbs a year to cover cost and pay yourself 60k.
You can get 40 lbs a year easy out of a bedroom sized grow. 5 de lights covering 150 sq ft would more than cover it once dialed. You would spend on average a couple hours a day in the garden. Running an operation the size the OP is talking about would take 60+ hour work weeks and a small team of laborers.
Now that I think about it 200k doesn't even seem like enough lol. Especially for something like this, I know my worth and what I can make at home. And also how much the owner will profit off my work.
If it was any other job I'm barely worth the 60k.
coreywebster
Well-Known Member
Threads old, guy joined 2013 and vanished 6 days after making this thread.
Wonder how he's getting on. It was a nice space.
Wonder how he's getting on. It was a nice space.
Lockedin
Well-Known Member
Old thread - but it got me wondering why lights would be run on 3 phase - even a 1000w HID seems like it would be more efficient on 110v house power. --- again, I have only a rudimentary understanding of the diff between the two.
But for larger room design, I could see where 3 phase has a place --- if the facility already has 3 phase to run A LOT of AC as well as other industrial equipment - auto-trimmers, presses, etc. --- then it makes sense to use 3 phase since you would already have that power grid in the facility.
This morning I pinged a friend growing a couple steel buildings in a HOT location - 100f+ summer days.
He's not on 3 phase. I asked why -
"The building didn't come with it, and the expense permitting and installation was f***king ridiculous, so I never looked into it."
So, it might be a case of working with what ya got --- I can't see a clear benefit to 3 phase power in a non-warehouse setting.
But for larger room design, I could see where 3 phase has a place --- if the facility already has 3 phase to run A LOT of AC as well as other industrial equipment - auto-trimmers, presses, etc. --- then it makes sense to use 3 phase since you would already have that power grid in the facility.
This morning I pinged a friend growing a couple steel buildings in a HOT location - 100f+ summer days.
He's not on 3 phase. I asked why -
"The building didn't come with it, and the expense permitting and installation was f***king ridiculous, so I never looked into it."
So, it might be a case of working with what ya got --- I can't see a clear benefit to 3 phase power in a non-warehouse setting.
Ya i bumped the thread up since they were discussing 3 phase power.
So what i've gathered is there's no point of doing it since the DE Gavitas 240v ballasts will run the 400v bulb the same. And also no point even if expanding from 1500 to 4000 sq ft,since the electrician is saying 800 amps is plenty.
So what i've gathered is there's no point of doing it since the DE Gavitas 240v ballasts will run the 400v bulb the same. And also no point even if expanding from 1500 to 4000 sq ft,since the electrician is saying 800 amps is plenty.
You save on amperage though.
Cutting Amps and upping volts doesn't 'save' anything. Here's an example:
120V x 10A = 1200W
240V x 5A = 1200W
No matter how you slice the amperage, you're still burning the same amount of electricity. The benefit to less current is smaller diameter wire.
spliffendz
Well-Known Member
Open a whorehouse, why does everyone see weed as a cash crop?
spliffendz
Well-Known Member
Get some poles and some gurls and give us all some v.i.p tickets