I'm voting for McCain....

Leilani Garden

Well-Known Member
Those Norwegian communist bastards with there horrible society!!!





Heavy sarcasm:wall::wall::wall:
No kidding! What a bunch of pinkos they are, eh?

And they laugh their asses off at us every day, for our parochial and puritanical ways.

Enough already. Time to join the rest of the western civilized world.

What a great post. Too bad I can't sum things up as succinctly as you do.

Tips? I can't shut up. Where are you.

Awesome post, thanks for the back up!
 

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
Are you speaking here of just the business by itself, or the people who run it?

Vi
Ethics is a major branch of philosophy, encompassing right conduct and good life. It is significantly broader than the common conception of analyzing right and wrong. A central aspect of ethics is "the good life", the life worth living or life that is simply satisfying, which is held by many philosophers to be more important than moral conduct.[1]

A business (also called firm or an enterprise) is a legally recognized organizational entity designed to provide goods and/or services to consumers. A business needs a market. A consumer is an essential part of a business. Businesses are predominant in capitalist economies, most being privately owned and formed to earn profit to increase the wealth of owners

Ethics is open to interpretation, my point is that the MAIN goal of and business is PROFIT. Above all else . . . how is that ethical? I would better describe all business as un-ethical.

I think that a lot of people who keep pushing this "Obama equals socialism" issue are getting their talking points from Faux News and other right-wing "news" outlets. That's where this is coming from, imo. It's a last ditch issue to keep using buzz words designed the scare the heck out of still-undecided voters.

And for the record, communism and socialism are not the same thing. They're not, but you'd never think so if you're watching Faux News or listening to right-wing folks on AM talk radio.

There is a big, big difference between a capitalist society with ELEMENTS OF SOCIALISM and outright communist societies, such as was the USSR.

No, I am not defending Stalin. He killed way more than the Nazis and fascists of WW2 did. I'm talking about a capitalist society with ELEMENTS OF SOCIALISM, not communism.

ANY kind of totalitarianism is wrong and is destined to self-destruct. Yet whenever I visit this thread, I keep seeing people equating Obama with communism. There's not a chance in hell that is going to happen, no way. If anything, he'd be voted right back out in four years: remember when Carter tried taxing at 70%? Keep that in mind. Just how well did that go over?

So you truly believe that the Government is effective at providing for the welfare of people? That is laughable . . .:roll: Who the hell is the government to take MY money that I worked for and give it to someone else? I know for a fact that I use some of the money I EARN for charitable contributions. I know where that money goes to and often see first hand who it helps. Most non-profits only give a small percentage of your money to people in need . . . and lets not even discuss how much money helps after it has been processed through bureaucracy.

I just want to know what happened to community, charity, and compassion.

Here the Preamble:

We the people of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

So in a simple paragraph the founding fathers summarize the role of Government and refers to Government as "We the People". Government for the people BY the people. Notice also the word use "promote" the general welfare not provide or insure . . . .

Obama is very much socialist so don't tell me that I got that from Fox news because I don't watch TV. It is very clear when someone talks about re-distribution of wealth they are referring to a Socialist agenda.

So faith needs to shift from institutions and money to PEOPLE. People are our most precious asset. I have faith in people like the founding fathers, I have faith that people can govern themselves. I also strongly believe like the founding fathers that POWER corrupts, therefore power should be reserved for the people. In a nutshell government should be small and limited because freedom means I choose for me, not you.:peace:

So go ahead continue to support expansion of government and socialist agenda because it has some "feel good" idealism. The end result will be the same as any institutional power (Fascism, Communism, Socialism, ect.) corruption and eventual destruction.
Democracy is not perfect but that is the point, it's meant for the real world.8-)
Oh I also thought I would post how many people Stalin killed to "provide for the general welfare". Here is the link: CNN Cold War - Profile: Joseph Stalin
 

mister420green

Active Member
Here's my 2 cents:

If the Fed supplies all the money to the nation and I mean 'all the money' but then they attach interest to that money, how do the american people pay that back? Where does the money for the interest come from? Exactly. So.... until we get a politician (such as Ron Paul) that wants to get rid of the Fed, we're slaves. Plain and simple. No matter who gets into the puppet house, a plan has to be carried out, and not by the president. But by the private interests that really run this country. The fucks that Jackson, Lincoln and our founding forefathers didn't want to even step foot in this country. When you control a nations money, you control the nation.

When we can rid ourselves of this ridiculous monetarily controlled system and base a system on human decency, respect and dignity, only then we'll be a free people. Our government needs to stop killing innocent people for profit. This goes not only in war but also in the healthcare system, farming, and educational. We think it's cool to support a surge, or to stay the course. But it's not cool to focus on the problems that exist in our own country. Republican democrat, it's all the same bunch of lies. Until two parties can realize that their differences don't even hold relevance to the people at the top, they'll always be doomed. Divide people and you always stay in control. One of our main fighting techniques was to divide an opposition force. If you divide you win. If they stay together you're in a world of shit. This is a proven tactic and why the specops are so efficient with small numbers.

I would love to create a new world, but keeping a 1200 sq ft grow room is about all I can manage right now. :-)
 

anotherchance

New Member
Here's my 2 cents:

If the Fed supplies all the money to the nation and I mean 'all the money' but then they attach interest to that money, how do the american people pay that back? Where does the money for the interest come from? Exactly. So.... until we get a politician (such as Ron Paul) that wants to get rid of the Fed, we're slaves. Plain and simple. No matter who gets into the puppet house, a plan has to be carried out, and not by the president. But by the private interests that really run this country. The fucks that Jackson, Lincoln and our founding forefathers didn't want to even step foot in this country. When you control a nations money, you control the nation.

When we can rid ourselves of this ridiculous monetarily controlled system and base a system on human decency, respect and dignity, only then we'll be a free people. Our government needs to stop killing innocent people for profit. This goes not only in war but also in the healthcare system, farming, and educational. We think it's cool to support a surge, or to stay the course. But it's not cool to focus on the problems that exist in our own country. Republican democrat, it's all the same bunch of lies. Until two parties can realize that their differences don't even hold relevance to the people at the top, they'll always be doomed. Divide people and you always stay in control. One of our main fighting techniques was to divide an opposition force. If you divide you win. If they stay together you're in a world of shit. This is a proven tactic and why the specops are so efficient with small numbers.

I would love to create a new world, but keeping a 1200 sq ft grow room is about all I can manage right now. :-)
the two running should both be turfed out and ron paul should be the next prz, after all he is the only one that has not lied to the people
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
There is no difference between Socialism and Communism

Oh yeah? Then how come we have nations on this globe that have socialist policies and such, and then we have outright communists?

You don't get it because you do not want to get it. You are so god awful up in arms about the taxes that you pay, that you jump on any bandwagon that will paint any sort of socialist ELEMENTS with a broad brush stroke, trying to make it all look like communisim. Does the UK look like a bunch of pinko commies to you? Seriously?

Please. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO. IF YOU DON" T GET IT, GO LOOK IT UP. I'm done looking things up for people tonight.

Oh and one more thing. You are in your early/mid-twenties, correct? How old are your parents? What do you think your thoughts might be on things like universal health care if one or both of your parents were diagnosed with a terminal illness, and there was no way to treat that illness until and unless their assets were liquidated? Are you willing to tell your own parents NO on something like this? Think hard, my friend. It's happening to a lot of middle class people right now--how to get their loved ones treated without losing everything.

And how about if you lost your job. In this economy, you know, you could see that happen. Suppose you had a child. You ran out of money (and it's happening right now to a lot of people). Suppose your child was diagnosed with leukemia. That does happen, you know. What do you think your thoughts on all of your socialist rants would be if your child was denied treatment all because you lost your job and there were no socialist ELEMENTS available? Ponder that one: watching your child die because you were out of money.

It's so easy to gripe and complain about your own taxes until such a time comes that you have to see things for yourself, ie, become a victim of your own rhetoric.

And this:

The argument that we ought to have elements of socialism is flawed to the core, because it fails to adequately address the fact that a healthy community must be built from with in, and can not be built from with ou

Oh yeah? Flawed to the core? Well, let me tell you who taught me that little tidbit: my own father, a highly educated ECONOMICS major from a nationally renowned university, who was a lifelong republican and dedicated to the free market. That's who showed me that one. And he and I could go round and round, debating each other. This man, a very reasonable person, concluded that what we need is a mainly a capitalist society--because COMMUNISM destroys incentive, while capitalism encourages it--with ELEMENTS of socialism, because to leave out those elements would make us no better than those in Calcutta, watching people starve to death on the streets and just accepting that as common place, everyday life.

Don't tell me that this argument is flawed. It's NOT. YOu want to live in a society that lets children die because their parents don't earn enough or, worse, are dead? How about that scenario?

You're dead wrong, and I think I've finally figured out that your only agenda is your own. And yet? You're too young to have parents aging and/or dying on you, a spouse who develops a brain tumor for which the most innovative treatments are unavailable to you because you do not have the right insurance, or a child who could fall victim to a deadly disease (or even an accident), leaving you to watch the horror.

It's not a flawed argument. It's one heck of a lot more reasonable than unleashing social darwinism. And don't forget, you yourself could need some help one day. If so, and you've gotten your way and all social programs are kaput, I hope you remember my face ;)
Actually, I suspect that my parents would expect me to liquidate their estate, and use it to pay for their health care.

Of course, there is the small fact that with out the federal government and federal income taxes, estate taxes, and so on and so forth, if worse came to worse, I'd be able to support my parents out of my own pocket, just like a good dutiful child should. So fluff off, and leave my family out of it.

And yes, I think Britain is a bunch of pinko-communists who haven't a damn brain cell in their body, because they keep on electing people who want to dictate everything to them.

What color to paint their houses...
What they can have in their yards...
Numerous Cameras of a Entrenched Bureaucracy afraid to lose its power...
Wanna Be Teachers that can't pass the basic exam...

They also elect people who think

Canes are a dangerous and deadly weapon...
and that Guns need to be banned (and their gun crime rate, and overall crime rate has slowly been going up since)

So, yes, they are a bunch of Pinko-Communists that want a nanny-government to take care fo them from Cradle to Grave, either that or imbeciles...

Personally, I'd be more comfortable if it was the latter.
 

naturalhigh

Well-Known Member
if your all for socialism and neo-natiz black politics controlling your government go right ahead and vote for the black man...you saw his preacher...for 17 years he sat being drilled to that black panther wanna bee... Obama has soo many enemies in the Palestinian states and Israel...
if he is sooo our " one " tell LA times to play the tape of him at the dinner table with them... instead of just hiding it from the public..im sure that will play over well..any time something bad about him comes up he just pushes it under the table...like all the last interviews with is good for nothing running mate...WTW has he done ... just a lame old Sennetter ... nothing different then Palin..and obama... ..ha...john McCain has spent more time in a POW camp then Obama in congress..and just to give everyone the 411 this country is still raciest if you like it or not..in stead of being worried about terrorism from over seas he better fear for his life..cus some wacked up kkk member or skin head is goona try and put a 50. sniper round in his face...just like they have done before to the past people figures .. soo for all you democrats out there.Fire up your Vans and go buy your Churches Chicken to lure your good for nothing voters that don't know the fuck whats going on except that a vote for obama is a vote for a free hand out.....
 

tipsgnob

New Member
if your all for socialism and neo-natiz black politics controlling your government go right ahead and vote for the black man...you saw his preacher...for 17 years he sat being drilled to that black panther wanna bee... Obama has soo many enimies in the Palestinian states and israil...
if he is sooo our " one " tell LA times to play the tape of him at the dinner table with them... instead of just hiding it from the public..im sure that will play over well..any time something bad about him comes up he just pushes it under the table...like all the last interviews with is good for nothing running mate...WTW has he done ... just a lame old Sennetter ... nothing different then Palin..and obama... ..ha...john McCain has spent more time in a POW camp then Obama in congress..and just to give everyone the 411 this country is still raciest if you like it or not..in stead of being worried about terrorism from over seas he better fear for his life..cus come kkk member or skin head is goona put a 50. sniper round in his face...just like we have done before... soo for all you desecrates out there.Fire up your Vans and go buy your Churches Chicken to lure your good for nothing voters that dont know the fuck whats going on...
are you really a KKK member?
 

Leilani Garden

Well-Known Member
So you truly believe that the Government is effective at providing for the welfare of people? That is laughable . . . Who the hell is the government to take MY money that I worked for and give it to someone else? I know for a fact that I use some of the money I EARN for charitable contributions. I know where that money goes to and often see first hand who it helps. Most non-profits only give a small percentage of your money to people in need . . . and lets not even discuss how much money helps after it has been processed through bureaucracy.


So New Growth, you have never, ever, not once in your life, ever once been the recipient of anyone else's tax money? Do you ever watch weather forecasts? Who paid for those satellites?

Sorry, your uber libertarian argument has been debunked over and over again.

Also, I am a bit confused. Maybe you can clarify this for me:


You've written above that you give to charity and you know for a fact where the money goes, etc, correct? That seems to contradict your next sentence:

"Most nonprofits only give a small percentage of your money to people in need."

So, who are you donating to that does not fall into nonprofits? Are you, what? Donating to profit-seeking enterprises? I don't get it.

Personally, I like Doctors Without Borders just because they have such stones, going into war-tone regions to provide medical care; and I love Mercy Corps because they go into war-torn and disaster areas and not only help out with food and shelter, but they also help care for the mental health of people traumatized.



Mercy Corps - Be the Change

Makes a nice wedding gift for the couple who seems to have everything. :peace:

Thanks in advance for your answer.
 

Leilani Garden

Well-Known Member
Hey Northwest, it was not always the case that the GOP was so horribly corrupt. But? Absolute power coupled with vengeance that began back in the Goldwater days has led to what we are now dealing with.

Personally? Although I am admittedly a flaming liberal, I also realize that moderation is the best way for the most people to get what they need/deserve/want. I'd take a Dem president right now, along with a good sprinkling of some good, principled republicans in the Senate and House, kinda like what we had with the Clinton/Gore years.

Those were some golden years, weren't they?

Mercy Corps is awesome, literally. They do such good work.
 

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
[
So New Growth, you have never, ever, not once in your life, ever once been the recipient of anyone else's tax money? Do you ever watch weather forecasts? Who paid for those satellites?
Sorry, your uber libertarian argument has been debunked over and over again.
What the hell does NASA have to do with your socialist agenda? I'm sorry but I have little faith in social programs sponsored by our federal government. NASA is not a social program its scientific research that I'm glad to support with my tax dollars(I really like my tempurpedic pillow ;) ). I'm not against taxes but big government is too beurucratic to ever work as efficentley or with as much compassion as local organizations. I'm sure you are supportive of great programs such as Social Security however . . . . .

Also, I am a bit confused. Maybe you can clarify this for me:
You've written above that you give to charity and you know for a fact where the money goes, etc, correct? That seems to contradict your next sentence:
"Most nonprofits only give a small percentage of your money to people in need."

So, who are you donating to that does not fall into nonprofits? Are you, what? Donating to profit-seeking enterprises? I don't get it.
Personally, I like Doctors Without Borders just because they have such stones, going into war-tone regions to provide medical care; and I love Mercy Corps because they go into war-torn and disaster areas and not only help out with food and shelter, but they also help care for the mental health of people traumatized.
There are some non-profit organizations that provide well for charity, I'm glad you have found some. Try to find out how much of your money United Way gives to people (I'll give you a hint its much less than 10%).
I am all for charity if the money helps people. I use my money locally; I like to volunteer in the local VA hospital, I have also given money to a local non-profit that supports children without parents and has an all volunteer staff. Truly charitable organizations arise where they are needed.
Act locally think Globally. You see I truly believe in people, but have little faith in Government. Is that so strange?
It really blows me away that you want to give MORE money to the people who just voted to give BILLIONS of dollars to some of the richest institutions on Earth . . . . AND you think they will use that money to HELP people:wall:
 

tipsgnob

New Member
What the hell does NASA have to do with your socialist agenda? I'm sorry but I have little faith in social programs sponsored by our federal government. NASA is not a social program its scientific research that I'm glad to support with my tax dollars(I really like my tempurpedic pillow ;) ). I'm not against taxes but big government is too beurucratic to ever work as efficentley or with as much compassion as local organizations. I'm sure you are supportive of great programs such as Social Security however . . . . .



There are some non-profit organizations that provide well for charity, I'm glad you have found some. Try to find out how much of your money United Way gives to people (I'll give you a hint its much less than 10%).
I am all for charity if the money helps people. I use my money locally; I like to volunteer in the local VA hospital, I have also given money to a local non-profit that supports children without parents and has an all volunteer staff. Truly charitable organizations arise where they are needed.
Act locally think Globally. You see I truly believe in people, but have little faith in Government. Is that so strange?
It really blows me away that you want to give MORE money to the people who just voted to give BILLIONS of dollars to some of the richest institutions on Earth . . . . AND you think they will use that money to HELP people:wall:
dude..you might as well shut the fuck up...she kicked your ass.....:twisted:
 

Leilani Garden

Well-Known Member
Hey, you completely missed the context of what you quoted me on in the first part of your post. Here's my point: you're saying that no gov't should be taking your hard earned money, right? Well, are you claiming that you've never once been the recipient of gov't money? Come on. You completely went off base with your reply. Our tax dollars are, yeah, wasted on a lot of garbage. And I freely admit that I don't think we're going to see an end to that until and unless we are able to throw out the lobbyists; that's how we're going to solve this corruption.

Secondly, the libertarian argument that no government has the right to use our money has been debunked over and over again. If you drive on roads? You're using tax payer dollars. Public schools? Same. Libraries? Same. Rely on weather reports for anything, for your work, anything? Tax dollars.

Now, let's take it a step further. Are you aware that the US has a high rate of infant mortality compared to the other western industrialized nations? Well, if that's okay with you (and I'm not implying that--I like a lot of what I see in your posts), then keep on rooting for the team that keeps our medical care and insurace in the hands of profit seeking enterprises. Sorry, when it comes to this issue, I really take issue.

Don't know if you can relate, but I've seen it personally: people who've been good citizens, supporting their families, saving for their own pensions and retirements, only to find themselves left out in the cold when it came their turn to need. Yes, I'm talking about our elders who come down with diseases like Alzheimers, Parkinsons, cancer and so on. They lose it all, just to die destitute, their wishes to leave an estate for their heirs gone up in smoke in order to qualify for health care.

I hate that. I really do.

I have a neighbor who is a WW2 vet, whose wife is in a home and will never come home. He's been paying $6K a month for her care in this mediocre facility. He also goes to bed every night worrying himself sick that she's not being properly taken care of. Not only that, but this man, who worked his butt off his whole life and saved for their retirement, so as not to be burdens to his family OR to society, is watching his life savings evaporate all just because his wife had the misfortune of developing dementia.

Do you approve of a society that calls itself the greatest nation on earth allowing that to happen? To a vet? And a vet who worked on communications during WW2?

I do not. Hence, I believe our health care system needs revamping, big time. I think we are cheating our elders and our children.

Oh and Brutal? If you really think you would not mind watching your own parents' pensions and savings and assets go poof just because they got ill in their golden years, I think you have either not pondered this very deeply, or that you are speaking with a forked tongue. Just ponder it, and ponder hard.
 

Leilani Garden

Well-Known Member
dude..you might as well shut the fuck up...she kicked your ass.....:twisted:

Ooooh. ::::::snicker::::::: smugly, though.

Hey, New Growth? You're very generous to do volunteer work for the VA hospitals. Seriously.

Ever visited a low budget nursing home? Oh, you gotta see it.

You can tell a lot about a society by how they treat their elders and their children.

It's a sorry situation we've got going on here.

Tips? What time is bedtime? I'm so confused because of the time change tonight. But I'm really thrilled to be getting an extra hour. See? I am a socialist, so I will take anything for free. I'm a freeloader, in fact ;)
 

tipsgnob

New Member
Ooooh. ::::::snicker::::::: smugly, though.

Hey, New Growth? You're very generous to do volunteer work for the VA hospitals. Seriously.

Ever visited a low budget nursing home? Oh, you gotta see it.

You can tell a lot about a society by how they treat their elders and their children.

It's a sorry situation we've got going on here.

Tips? What time is bedtime? I'm so confused because of the time change tonight. But I'm really thrilled to be getting an extra hour. See? I am a socialist, so I will take anything for free. I'm a freeloader, in fact ;)
I'm already in bed.....:roll:
 
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