Trials and Tribulations

[Strudelheim]

Welcome everyone. As the titles points out, growing for me has been mostly challenging times, and 3 years, the problems continue on almost every grow. I stopped looking for help online for the last year and tried to make progress on my own. Im back! Anyone can comment or post here, as the point of this thread is to have the community help, and instead of making hundreds of posts in the plants problems forum, this journal should help get a better overall picture of the entire grow and methods. Im growing mostly with LEDS so anyone that is experienced with them please chime in. But of course all comments welcome. Also I don't know a lot, but anything I try I will be doing side by sides to see the real proof. I find thats the best way for me to learn, is to actually see a side by side with all other variables the same. Side by side, or its bro science and not for this thread, so over the course of this thread we should have some very cool side by sides like different ppms, different ph, run off versus no run off, flush versus non, recycled soil mixes versus new, using ewc versus not. You get the idea!

I want to dedicate this thread to Prawn Connery, as he encouraged me to post this thread, as he was already helping me and agreed to mentor me. But the more mentors the better, as I need them clearly, if after 3 years Im still clueless.

VEG SETUP/EQUIPMENT

4'x6' TENT
480W HLG 550V2 4K LED
Vortex S-Line 6" 346CFM Exhaust
16" Hurricane Oscillating Fan
REMO NUTRIENTS (GROW/MICRO)
TAP WATER = 220PPM/ PH 7.4 - 7.8
Blue Labs Combo Meter
I try to grow perpetual and have a 2-3 Light BLOOM space

CURRENT RUN IN VEG

MEDIA - Recycled Pro Mix. Now before everyone gangs up on recycled pro mix, yes its a variable compared to new everytime, but I have tested this, and on the last run I did Recycled, versus new, versus ones with organics and EWC, and noticed no difference! I will continue to do side by sides with new pro mix as I have some left. But this run is just recycled - used once or twice - and was water fed for last 3 weeks of bloom, so run off is around 500ppm, which is less than what new pro mix is which comes loaded with nutrients which give a run off of 1300ppm. so you could say re used has less nutrients built up.

LIGHTS - Dialed down to 40% = 190W @ 18/6 Schedule from 8AM-2AM, 18" distance from canopy. This gives me 50K LUX. Recommended distance running at 100% power is 32", so if you times that by my power strength of 40% = 32"x .40 = 13". So my 18" is on the lower end. Again I had great results at 18" on the last grow during VEG.

PLANTS/STRAINS - 3 of each STRAIN

Mandarin Kush (Karma Genetics)
Scott's OG ( Rare Dankness)
Dream Lotus ( Bodhi)
Pink Bazooka x Strawberry Cough (DoubleTripleOG)

NUTRIENTS/PH

For the 3 clones per strain I have them ea running at 600ppm,700ppm,800ppm. Trying to learn about the different nutrient levels. PH 6.0.

TEMP/RH
Exhaust Fan is turned down with a Speed Controller. This gives me 65RH. These LEDs don't put any heat, so the temps are 70-74 DAY, 65/NIGHT. Daytime temps really depend on what the weather is like outside. So warm days peaks of 75, cooler days peaks of 72. Spring just started so in a few weeks I will hit over 75 everyday, and once were into summer I should be able to hit 80F peaks, but for now its low 70s. I had good veg results on the last run with these lower temps, getting lush vigorous growth. According to VDP charts, 60-70RH @70-75F is perfect VDP! 16" Oscillating fan is blowing a gentle breeze across all plants.

RUNOFF/WATERING
I hand water when they are moist, but not dry, I would say when at 30% water capacity. I shoot for 10% run off, so I water half a gallon and get a cup of runoff, which I measure and record in my notes. Ea plant has a tag #, which I use in my notes to record this run off, what the ppm feed is, and transplant dates. I would say Im above average organized. Hence the frustration of far below average results.

POTS
I try to VEG for 8 Weeks total, doing roughly 2 weeks in each pot size - 4" pot, 1 Gallon, 2 Gallon, 3 Gallon.


So im getting slow growth - its been about a month and im not happy with the results. Im starting to see deficiencies. I thought things were going great after last transplant to 2G based on seeing lots of new roots coming to drainage holes. I only have 4 weeks left before I need to flip these (have my bloom room clearing up in 4 weeks.



Dream lotus - this one seems the most finicky. Very dense bushy growth - too much. New leave sets small.



Scotts OG - Seeing this deficiency in the last few days.



Run off is between 1000-1500 across the board.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Hi mate, so looking at the photos above the first thing that jumped out at me is calcium deficiency in nearly all of them. It starts out as random yellow spots, usually on the middle leaves and tips and usually in-between the leaf veins, that dry out and turn to rust spots. This is your plant breaking down calcium in the cell structure of the leaves so that it can move it to the new growth. This is why calcium is often referred to as a "semi-mobile" nutrient, as it can be moved inside the plant, but only in limited quantities and short distances. That's why it usually begins with leaves that are in the middle or top half of the plant. Some websites claim calcium is immobile, but that's not the case.

I did explain a bit about calcium deficiency in your other thread and the causes behind it. Calcium relies on transpiration (evaporation at the leaf surface) for uptake, so when temperatures fall, transpiration slows and so does calcium uptake. Also, certain media such as coco and peat moss, and to a lesser extend clay soils, can bind calcium and magnesium and release potassium and sodium – also known as cation exchange. This can also lead to calmag deficiencies.

Calcium deficiency will stunt plant growth, while magnesium deficiency will first show as overall liming or yellowing of leaves, often with purple or red petioles and stems, which will eventually progress until you see the distinctive interveinal chlorosis, or yellow "striping" in-between the veins.

High pH can lock out calcium and magnesium – peat moss can be quite acidic. High levels of potassium and sodium can lock out calcium and magnesium. Overwatering affects mostly magnesium and phosphorous uptake, although it will have an overall impact on your plants.

I don't grow in soil or soilless, so I can't really give any advice on your medium other than to say that it is hard to know what's in it, and just because the runoff has a low EC doesn't mean there isn't – for example – excess sodium or potassium in your medium. The runoff might be only 500ppm, but if most of that is sodium, then that's quite high. PPM doesn't tell you the ratio of salts.

I'd also say if you are having trouble with your current medium, then perhaps it's time to think about changing it instead of recycling it. As you recycle soilless media, it breaks down and becomes denser and slowly loses its aeration properties.


^ This is a sign of an overwatered plant. Thicker leaves curling and drooping, yellowing with red stems. It is showing signs of early magnesium deficiency which may be due to overwatering or simply not enough Mg or possibly a combination of both. You may be overwatering, or you may be leaving your runnoff in the trays too long before you empty them. I have a drainage system that catches runoff in another pot which drains out of a hose into a collection bucket. You don't have any drainage system that I can see apart from trays under each pot. You can't treat soilless the same as soil because it does not buffer as well and salt build-up happens faster.


^ These are calcium rust spots. The lower leaves in this photo (the light green ones) are magnesium deficient. Nitrogen helps with magnesium uptake, so it may also be a little N deficient.

Using a good Cal-Mag supplement should clear this up, as it will contain calcium and magnesium at a ratio of around 3:1, as well as nitrogen and iron.

Anyway, the reasons for your deficiency were also covered in the posts I wrote in your last thread, including the fact you are only using two parts of a nutrient that also recommends using a Cal-Mag supplement, so I would suggest the simplest problems are usually the most common, which is that you need to follow the nutrient manufacturer's recommendations. Either that or swap to a decent soilless nutrient, like Canna, that contains sufficient calcium and magnesium to begin with. The deficiencies are not too bad, so it may just be a matter of tweaking it.

 

[Strudelheim]

Hi mate, so looking at the photos above the first thing that jumped out at me is calcium deficiency in nearly all of them. It starts out as random yellow spots, usually on the middle leaves and tips and usually in-between the leaf veins, that dry out and turn to rust spots. This is your plant breaking down calcium in the cell structure of the leaves so that it can move it to the new growth. This is why calcium is often referred to as a "semi-mobile" nutrient, as it can be moved inside the plant, but only in limited quantities and short distances. That's why it usually begins with leaves that are in the middle or top half of the plant. Some websites claim calcium is immobile, but that's not the case.

I did explain a bit about calcium deficiency in your other thread and the causes behind it. Calcium relies on transpiration (evaporation at the leaf surface) for uptake, so when temperatures fall, transpiration slows and so does calcium uptake. Also, certain media such as coco and peat moss, and to a lesser extend clay soils, can bind calcium and magnesium and release potassium and sodium – also known as cation exchange. This can also lead to calmag deficiencies.

Calcium deficiency will stunt plant growth, while magnesium deficiency will first show as overall liming or yellowing of leaves, often with purple or red petioles and stems, which will eventually progress until you see the distinctive interveinal chlorosis, or yellow "striping" in-between the veins.

High pH can lock out calcium and magnesium – peat moss can be quite acidic. High levels of potassium and sodium can lock out calcium and magnesium. Overwatering affects mostly magnesium and phosphorous uptake, although it will have an overall impact on your plants.

I don't grow in soil or soilless, so I can't really give any advice on your medium other than to say that it is hard to know what's in it, and just because the runoff has a low EC doesn't mean there isn't – for example – excess sodium or potassium in your medium. The runoff might be only 500ppm, but if most of that is sodium, then that's quite high. PPM doesn't tell you the ratio of salts.

I'd also say if you are having trouble with your current medium, then perhaps it's time to think about changing it instead of recycling it. As you recycle soilless media, it breaks down and becomes denser and slowly loses its aeration properties.

View attachment 4553382
^ This is a sign of an overwatered plant. Thicker leaves curling and drooping, yellowing with red stems. It is showing signs of early magnesium deficiency which may be due to overwatering or simply not enough Mg or possibly a combination of both. You may be overwatering, or you may be leaving your runnoff in the trays too long before you empty them. I have a drainage system that catches runoff in another pot which drains out of a hose into a collection bucket. You don't have any drainage system that I can see apart from trays under each pot. You can't treat soilless the same as soil because it does not buffer as well and salt build-up happens faster.

View attachment 4553383
^ These are calcium rust spots. The lower leaves in this photo (the light green ones) are magnesium deficient. Nitrogen helps with magnesium uptake, so it may also be a little N deficient.

Using a good Cal-Mag supplement should clear this up, as it will contain calcium and magnesium at a ratio of around 3:1, as well as nitrogen and iron.

Anyway, the reasons for your deficiency were also covered in the posts I wrote in your last thread, including the fact you are only using two parts of a nutrient that also recommends using a Cal-Mag supplement, so I would suggest the simplest problems are usually the most common, which is that you need to follow the nutrient manufacturer's recommendations. Either that or swap to a decent soilless nutrient, like Canna, that contains sufficient calcium and magnesium to begin with. The deficiencies are not too bad, so it may just be a matter of tweaking it.

Hi Prawn, good to see you here!

Calcium/RH/TEMPS

I actually do have cal-mag, by botanicare, so might end up using that. Since calcium is directly correlated to transpiration, could this be a reason I am seeing it? I have high humidity - 65%RH, and low temps - 70F. Which both lower transpiration correct? I was trying to achieve VPD with the high RH (Im used to being around 50%), and I was trying to avoid supplemental heating by trying to grow at 68-74F range.

REMO Nutrients
The GROW/BLOOM/MICRO line is considered a stand alone product. Im quite sure of this because I did a bit of research before buying a years worth supply. Nothing else is required, but ofcourse like all other companies they have there various additives and boosters. Maybe because those are shown on the nutrient calculator you had assumed that they must be part of the basic formula? I was under the impression that calmag is usually used with RO water/COCO, my tap water is 220ppm with 180ppm of that being calcium carbonate.

Here is a quick youtube clip from the owner.

I will keep an eye on the 3 nutrient levels 600-700-800. That should give some clue to what is happening. For example the plant we have been discussing is the Dream lotus @ 700ppm. The 800ppm plant is not displaying these deficiencies but is having same bushy slower growth so not perfect either.

MEDIA
I definitely would consider switching media, but on the last run of 12 plants, I noticed no difference between NEW promix, Recycled Pro mix, and Soil (recycled pro mix with small amount of organic amendments and EWC/Compost). These groups should all have drastically different level of built up nutrients/salts...

As far as pro mix breaking down, I have extra perlite on hand if it gets dense, but it comes standard with 30% perlite. The perlite itself probably lasts, but the roots breaking down add some organic matter over time. But maybe you can answer this, if I keep on re using pro mix, and the peat moss slowly breaks down, and the roots as well into organic matter, at what point am I growing in Soil, and not soilless? Because for soil you should have a PH of 6.5-6.8, but soilless pro mix 5.8-6.2. I bring my nutrients to PH6.0. Run off in new pro mix comes out as 6.0-6.2. This in my experience does not change too much when re using, coming out at 6.4. And I find that it really doesn't matter what you ph your solution to, the media will dictate what it comes out as. The only thing in the solution that affects media PH is the calcium carbonate over time making it alkaline. But that is buffered down when ph ing it to 6.


WATERING METHOD

Heres my process, do a visual check on the media to see how dry it is. Verify with a finger scratch, triple verify by lifting it up and seeing weight. I then decide if it could last another day, or if by this one extra day it would be too dry. If I water it I take it out of the tent, put it on a bench with a saucer underneath (a big 2" high one). I water it little bit at a time - I usually water 3-4 plants at a time. I shoot for 250ml run off. I actually transfer the plant to another empty saucer and have it rest tilted to get 100% run off coming out. I measure and record the ppms of the run off, and put plant back in tent, and in a saucer that stays empty. I have had some very good success over the 3 years doing it like this and feel like I have perfected the hand watering method. I really can't improve it. My data for each plant shows how often I water, usually, after a transplant it lasts for 4-6 days, then I water it 2 more times before the next transplant. so thats 3 waterings per 10-14 days.

SUMMARY

The mandarin kush are actually doing ok, I am satisfied with their progress, and will probably flip those first.

I will raise exhaust fan to increase air flow/exchange. I did this yesterday already, by going from 30% power to 50%, it has gone from 65RH to 55RH. I will try this for one week to see how they progress.

After that, I will put in a space heater and bring temps to 80F for a week and see how they respond to that.

This should address the transpiration factors, which again are an even bigger issue since running LED and having low Leaf surface temps!

 

[Prawn Connery]

The first stage of grief is denial.

We are all guilty of this. We see something wrong and try to rationalise that it isn't actually happening because we've done everything we can to prevent it. All growers go through the same process, so that little anecdote isn't aimed at you, personally, but to point out a universal truth.

That truth is, if your plants are telling you they need something, then they need something. You can try to rationalise it away all you like, but if your plants are telling you they need calcium and magnesium, then they need calcium and magnesium

There is more than one way to skin a cat, and so there are several things you can do to help. Using a VPD chart is a good start. But it's not gospel. Cannabis has evolved in different parts of the world – from the hot, wet equatorial tropics, to the hot, dry (and cold at night) highlands of Central Asia – so what works for one strain (satvia dominant) may not work as well for the next.

Indica doms certainly seem to respond better to drier climates than sativa doms.

The next step is to ignore the video you posted and actually look at what the company has written on its website:

Frequently Asked Questions - Remo Nutrients | Premium Plant Nutrients and Supplements

www.remonutrients.com

The base nutrients are Micro, Grow, and Bloom – these have all of the essential ingredients that your plants need to grow through the full cycle. We highly recommend using the Magnifical, our calcium/magnesium/nitrogen supplement, as it can assist in preventing deficiencies (every strain is different). The remaining additives (Velokelp, Nature’s Candy, and AstroFlower) can be omitted if you want to save money, and you will still be able to grow happy plants. However, you will notice a significant difference in both quantity and quality, likely enough to justify the extra expense, if you use the complete line of products.
Do you have any more questions?

So much for the "two-part" nutrient. Growing under LED needs higher levels of nutrient, and higher levels of calcium and more often than not, magnesium.

If you are satisfied you are not overwatering – or underwatering for that matter – then that should rule out overwatering as your source of root stress. So what else can cause root stress, root stunting or root end rot/death? What is one of the most important minerals for healthy root growth – a mineral that is responsible for cell division and cell wall strength?

That would calcium.

So let's look at what your plants are telling you. Random rust spots in the middle leaves = calcium deficiency. Stunted growth = calcium deficiency. Stunted roots = calcium deficiency. Root stress that looks a bit like overwatering? Well, when you overwater your plants you drown (kill) the roots, starting at the tips, and when you have a calcium deficiency your roots start to die back from the tips.

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.

It doesn't matter what's on the nutrient label. It doesn't matter what's in your water. It doesn't even matter what the temperature or humidity or even pH is – your plants will tell you what they need and it is your job to give it to them!

 

[Prawn Connery]

Sorry, I get a bit carried away when I'm stoned

So, kush plants tend to be light feeders, so I'm not surprised that they are suffering less than the other strains. In fact, one of the best plant symptom solvers you can start with is: which plants are affected most – big or small? If the largest plants are having problems and the smallest ones aren't, then in many cases this indicates a nutrient deficiency. If it is the other way around, then in many cases this indicates nutrient toxicity. It's common sense that big plants have bigger appetites than small plants. Big plants also drink faster than small plants, so are less likely to suffer from moisture stress at the root zone. Of course pots size can also make a difference.

pH in a healthy system always rises. This is due to healthy levels of oxygen and microbial life – anaerobic or "bad" bacteria are associated with low levels of oxygen/high levels of carbon dioxide that acidify the root zone – as well as the uptake of anions, such as nitrates, that release hydroxyl ions that also raise pH.

So high pH can be a sign of higher calcium levels in a medium, but it is no guarantee. Indeed, high pH can help Ca uptake, but too high pH can cause Ca to form insoluble compounds such as calcium phosphate (which also locks out your phosphorous).

One good technique is to set your pH at the lower end – 5.6 or 5.7 – and let it drift up naturally. As the pH increases, more (or less) minerals become more (or less) available to the plant. In nature, pH changes all the time and plants take advantage of this.

Anyway, that should be enough to get your started. I would continue to add the same amount of nutrient you are currently feeding but add some cal-mag. This will increase your ppm, but I am almost certain it is what your plants need.

Just remember to only change one thing at a time so that you can see if it is working or not. A lot of growers throw everything they have at a plant and if it works, then they're really none the wiser.

 

[Strudelheim]

Sorry, I get a bit carried away when I'm stoned

So, kush plants tend to be light feeders, so I'm not surprised that they are suffering less than the other strains. In fact, one of the best plant symptom solvers you can start with is: which plants are affected most – big or small? If the largest plants are having problems and the smallest ones aren't, then in many cases this indicates a nutrient deficiency. If it is the other way around, then in many cases this indicates nutrient toxicity. It's common sense that big plants have bigger appetites than small plants. Big plants also drink faster than small plants, so are less likely to suffer from moisture stress at the root zone. Of course pots size can also make a difference.

pH in a healthy system always rises. This is due to healthy levels of oxygen and microbial life – anaerobic or "bad" bacteria are associated with low levels of oxygen/high levels of carbon dioxide that acidify the root zone – as well as the uptake of anions, such as nitrates, that release hydroxyl ions that also raise pH.

So high pH can be a sign of higher calcium levels in a medium, but it is no guarantee. Indeed, high pH can help Ca uptake, but too high pH can cause Ca to form insoluble compounds such as calcium phosphate (which also locks out your phosphorous).

One good technique is to set your pH at the lower end – 5.6 or 5.7 – and let it drift up naturally. As the pH increases, more (or less) minerals become more (or less) available to the plant. In nature, pH changes all the time and plants take advantage of this.

Anyway, that should be enough to get your started. I would continue to add the same amount of nutrient you are currently feeding but add some cal-mag. This will increase your ppm, but I am almost certain it is what your plants need.

Just remember to only change one thing at a time so that you can see if it is working or not. A lot of growers throw everything they have at a plant and if it works, then they're really none the wiser.

Ok I will dig out my cal mag, and apply it to the 700ppm dream lotus plant. I will add 100ppm of it with every feeding, so this will be 800ppm total.

Here is the run data sheet for that plant btw.

Dream Lotus #2
700

TRANSPLANT 1G MAR 24
VEG700
1770
1440
1340
1420
1060
TRANSPLANT 2G APR 19
1230
1420
1170
1420

 

[Prawn Connery]

That should help, but I can't help but think your PPM is also a bit low. 800ppm is EC1.6 and I run EC2.0-2.2 during flower, but I'm in coco. Are those numbers your runoff PPM?

Also, do you use PPM 500 (TDS) or 700 as a measure?

 

[Strudelheim]

Yes those are the run off numbers I track with every watering. I do this for like 50 plants

500 tds.

So I have 3 feeding levels, 600,700,800. Each clone gets a different level, again I currently have 3 clones per strain. So this way I can read and dial in each strain. Now the way I mix my nutrients is have a 600 RES, and 800 RES, and then mix the 2 as I need it to make 700ppm. I have actually upped my 800ppm res to 900, so this will give me these 3 levels - 600,750,900. This should better help me see the differences in each group. with only 100ppm it is harder to see the difference, especially if the plant is a heavy feeder and all 3 groups are on the underfed side. The idea is that the 900ppm level will lead to overfed real quick, and then I can at least see what that looks like visually, and by run of ppms.

This weekend I will be transplanted the Dream Lotus and Mandarin Kush to 3G POTS, and I will put in a space heater into the tent set to 80F. Current temp range is 68-72F. I have increase the oscillating fan and turned up the ehaust to 100% for the last week, and it seems to have improved the deficiency issue in the dream lotus. But they still have weird extremely dense bushy growth, and small fan leaves. Will take pics of them during transplant, so you can see progress of the last week.

 

[Strudelheim]

Mandarin Kush Transplant, from right to left 600,700,800ppm, but moving forward that is 600,750,900ppm. The 600ppm one is smaller, but not all clones ere 100% same size initially so its too soon to tell. Root developement looks equal in all 3 groups.

These were transplanted from 1G>2G on April 19, so 20 days of growth in these 2G pots. I think under Ideal conditions I could have achieved that in half the time, so 10 days. But I am content with their current state of health at least that's the main thing. Nice sturdy stems, no major deficiencies, healthy roots, starting to get vigorous growth and about 10 main tops each at equal height. This was very important for me to achieve early by topping and pinching and removing smaller shoots, as this one stretches more than anything I have ever run. I had to literally cut the main top off in flowering on the first plant from seed I ran, because it was above the light on the edge of canopy.

The next update on these will be in 3 weeks when I flip them.

 

[Strudelheim]

Ok, so in the last week the plants have not been doing good. Ive been putting a lot of thought into it, as I was preparing to make another post. And I though, sure I can take pictures of these def's once again, and upload them, you may or may not see the def or the issue in the pictures, and one thing you cant see is growth rate. But when the issue occurs in all 3 nutrient level groups then whats next, sure we tried cal mag made no difference, sure I increased airflow and technically left the perfect VDP range, and yes I increased temps to 80F, and all those things helped some, but overall things are not good. And all you can do is suggest things that Ive tried over and over again already, PH, Transplanting, VDP, RH, TEMPS, Lights -LED/CMH/CM/HPS/FLURO, Nutrients - PBP/REMO @ many different levels , CALMAG, organics, EWC, 10 different soil mixes. IT boils down to one thing and one thing only, that I am in denial about and stubborn. WHEN YOU RE USE YOUR MEDIA YOU INTRODUCE A VARIABLE. You can not know 100% what is going on in there. If I am having problems, I need to remove any variables. Now I was stubbornly thinking plants can handle re using of media, and if it got water fed for 3 weeks and then a flush, and the ppm is coming out under 500, versus new promix at 1000!! then that should be fine. But if I have learned anything, this plant is finicky as hell. I literally feed my run off to my house plants with out giving them any run off for a whole year, and they thrive!, If I gave one feeding of run off to my cannabis, it would fade to yellow throw up 10 def's and wilt immediately and loose all leaves and most likely die. Thats why its so hard asking for help, people suggest the basics, and Ive got the basics down. Ive tried DWC 2 times and both times Iv had the quickest healthiest growth like that. I hate wasting media, and have a disability, its hard for me to be lugging soil around buying it and throwing it out every month. for 3 years Ive been having problems, that I don't see anyone else have over and over. Ive tried so many variables and tests and side by sides, but that is the issue at heart. THIS PLANT IS FUCKING STUPID. So this is my last season, and I will be packing it in , in the fall. Winter is a lot harder to grow in because of heating and humidity inside the home. Anyways I had a glimmer of hope with you, but Ive realised all the leave analysis and def identification in the world can't help, when Im re using soil over and over. When I start up in a few years I will do RDWC and built the perfect room and perfect setup, everything automated. It will be so efficient, and I will crush it. If I have learned anything in these 3 years its what not to do. I deserve better results, I pay attention to detail, and care, and have not been giving up for 3 years, but this shit is literally making me suicidal, like when I go in the grow room, its a very negative energy, this hobby is costing me my life, 3 years now. How many more will it take, its a joke. I need to shut down. Again you can't help me, you grow in new coco, dtw, I need to look for a re using pro mix sub forum, but I probably won't find one.

Ok thats all I got today, this is what my mindest has been for the past week.

The most frustrating thing is that the last run of LGB actually did good, and it did good across NEW PROMIX/RE USED PRO MIX, PARTIAL ORGANIC SOIL MIX.

So I though ok, its not the re used media, so on this next run, I did just recycled pro mix.

Ive had 3 clones of mandarin kush I did one in flushed re used pro mix, one in re used pro mix, and one in brand new pro mix.

Im also buying jacks nutrients 3-2-1 formula. 25LBS bags. This stuff I can use in my RDWC later in a few years.