Cal/Mag Deficiency Organic Soil

[getogrow]

Now that makes it make a lot more sense to me. I didn't even think of it that way.

ive done several dabs since reading all the good shit ....soil food web, em, ect.... But im pretty sure thats how it works. We crush egg shells to speed the process up but i think its because of the extra surface area for the microbes to feed vs making it water soluble. Im pretty sure thats how all organic matter is turned into plant food.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

i dont think "water soluble" and "available" are the same thing. Im pretty sure the microbes/soil still have to further break down the lime to make it available....i think.

Lime or oyster shell flour doesn't need microbes to lower pH. It's a chemical thing.

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[TreeFarmerCharlie]

Lime or oyster shell flour doesn't need microbes to lower pH. It's a chemical thing.

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He wasn't talking about how it affects the pH, he was talking about how the minerals become available to the plant.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

He wasn't talking about how it affects the pH, he was talking about how the minerals become available to the plant.

Ok, I was confused.

 

[Johiem]

lso, how were you able to determine the calcium concentration (388 ppm) of your final solution?
[/QUOTE]
The procedure is in the post. But my concentration calculation was :
Sterile stainless steel sauce pan add 2 cups of distilled water, initial ppm reading 26ppm of who knows what.
Add Approximately 1/2 cup dried, baked, and crushed eggshells to water in pot and boil stirring constantly. When 1/2 of the water has evaporated, remove from heat and cool. Strain slurry through gauze and final ppm reading was 414. Deductive reasoning says that the difference came from the egg shells i.e. calcium. Unless my logic center is corrupted.

 

[Harry Bonanza]

This has been an ongoing thing for years .....us organic guys assume everything chemical is bad for the soil and that is simply not true. Since we dont have the equipment to test , we just have to assume the ph up an down is bad for the microbes. (i agree with this assumption)
Im with you , i dont think it will kill the whole soil just by giving her a lil up an down here an there but i also see absolutely no reason to EVER use ph up or down for soil.

For now I’m on your side with this one. It’s pretty harsh. I just need to get the soil established

 

[Kassiopeija]

how can acid harm bacteria when said acid
(a) is only added in very miniscule amount?
(b) is there to shift the pH into a zone which bacteria like?
(c) said acid already engaged into a chemical reaction (with chalk, alkalines etc) and thus, is no more there... and it took some of the alkalines with it...

ive done several dabs since reading all the good shit ....soil food web, em, ect.... But im pretty sure thats how it works. We crush egg shells to speed the process up but i think its because of the extra surface area for the microbes to feed vs making it water soluble. Im pretty sure thats how all organic matter is turned into plant food.

yes the increased surface area is a huge factor.
the water solubility is derived also by other factors. For example, I have MagnesiaChalk here which 60% Ca 30% Mg came as pellets for fields. Ground that to fine powder - but still, nowhere near water soluble. As good as no EC, slowly rises but still after 30 mins not finished.
On the other hand, Epsom Salt water soluble after few seconds....

btw plants can also actively break out minerals from the soil by releasing substances.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

how can acid harm bacteria when said acid
(a) is only added in very miniscule amount?
(b) is there to shift the pH into a zone which bacteria like?
(c) said acid already engaged into a chemical reaction (with chalk, alkalines etc) and thus, is no more there... and it took some of the alkalines with it...


yes the increased surface area is a huge factor.
the water solubility is derived also by other factors. For example, I have MagnesiaChalk here which 60% Ca 30% Mg came as pellets for fields. Ground that to fine powder - but still, nowhere near water soluble. As good as no EC, slowly rises but still after 30 mins not finished.
On the other hand, Epsom Salt water soluble after few seconds....

btw plants can also actively break out minerals from the soil by releasing substances.

Epsom salt has no Ca in it. It's only Mg and S. Sulfur can help lower the pH. Ca can only raise it.

 

[Kassiopeija]

Epsom salt has no Ca in it. It's only Mg and S. Sulfur can help lower the pH. Ca can only raise it.

my mentioning if Epsom Salt was in response of water solubility, not pH.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

my mentioning if Epsom Salt was in response of water solubility, not pH.

Your post was confusing to me.

 

[getogrow]

how can acid harm bacteria when said acid
(a) is only added in very miniscule amount?
(b) is there to shift the pH into a zone which bacteria like?
(c) said acid already engaged into a chemical reaction (with chalk, alkalines etc) and thus, is no more there... and it took some of the alkalines with it...


yes the increased surface area is a huge factor.
the water solubility is derived also by other factors. For example, I have MagnesiaChalk here which 60% Ca 30% Mg came as pellets for fields. Ground that to fine powder - but still, nowhere near water soluble. As good as no EC, slowly rises but still after 30 mins not finished.
On the other hand, Epsom Salt water soluble after few seconds....

btw plants can also actively break out minerals from the soil by releasing substances.

This post shows why organics are so much more complicated vs chem grows. Without extensive and expensive testing equipment , we just have to assume whats in our mix. Just like mother nature. i love it!

 

[PoopyMcPooper]

They look hungry or locked out. I lean towards hungry because I dont have a reason to believe its overfed or your ph is off based on your posts.

I'm not sure your 4-4-4 is cutting it. You dont need more P.

Consider a ratio similar to this, feed 1.5ec and raise your lights a bit if you can for a couple days. measure your runoff ec for comparison, i bet it measures under .8ec

 

[Harry Bonanza]

They look hungry or locked out. I lean towards hungry because I dont have a reason to believe its overfed or your ph is off based on your posts.

I'm not sure your 4-4-4 is cutting it. You dont need more P.

Consider a ratio similar to this, feed 1.5ec and raise your lights a bit if you can for a couple days. measure your runoff ec for comparison, i bet it measures under .8ec

View attachment 4545024

Thanks everybody! I’m convinced they were hungry. The late up pot into brand new soil I believe was the problem. I’ve since mixed up a few totes of amended soil to get them going and raised the lights a bit. In the meantime the two really hard hit girls have recovered well. One very obviously stopped growing altogether is now showing some new growth. I also did the egg shell boiling thing so in the end I added lime, worm tea, egg shell tea and raised the lights. Thanks again everyone. Happy planting season!!

 

[Harry Bonanza]

Everybody seems to have recovered nicely. Lost two weeks on the calendar but should be worth it.