Help for new grower - whats wrong with her?

[MidwestTentGrowerDude]

New grower with new setup trying to dial in environment for 5 plants to learn how to legally grow.

5x8' tent - 4 LED lights(600w and 1000w), 5 plants, intake fan, reciprocating fan, ventilation fans, carbon filter with 6" exhaust fan, heater



Growing in fox farms soil mixed with perlite and worm casings. Germinated feminized northern lights and white widow seeds and planted in 5gal pots. Alternating feeding fox farms trio with plain distilled water ph to 6.5.

Lights and exhaust are set to 18/6 schedule. I was using heater, exhaust, and lights all together but it was getting too hot so I stopped using heater for a while. Now I considering putting heater back in tent and scheduling on/off every hour throughout the night to cut the chill and keep it warm.

Past 2 weeks tent was running 77f & 35rh during the day, and at night temps drop 10 degrees. Every morning Iook in the tent she looks sad (maybe cold?) and then she perks up throughout the day. Seems to be getting gradually worse every day.

MORNING:

LATE AFTERNOON


Any advice or insight you would care to share with this new grower is appreciated. Thanks friends!

 

[PadawanWarrior]

I think I can see some signs of bugs. Mites maybe. But I don't think that has anything to do with what's causing them to go from sad to happy once the lights are on. My guess is they're getting too cold at night, but I'm kinda a nube still.

And when do you water them?

 

[BluntMoniker]

For the most part, this is normal.

Leaves reach towards the light.. when there is no light, they have nothing to reach towards, so they sort of "relax". When lights come back on, they begin to reach upwards again to gain as much light as they can. This is actually a sign of a healthy/happy plant.

Drooping can also be caused by extreme over/under watering, but looking at the color/structure of your plant, I highly doubt either of those

 

[MidwestTentGrowerDude]

This is my first 3-4 weeks of growing so I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing. Did a lot of reading past few months and figured I would just jump in and give it a shot

@PadawanWarrior I've been watering with fox farm trio schedule mixed to half strength once weekly and then watering 3-4 days later with distilled water. Pretty much twice a week. I also mist the leaves with distilled whenever I'm in the tent checking on things. What makes you think there are bugs?

 

[PadawanWarrior]

This is my first 3-4 weeks of growing so I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing. Did a lot of reading past few months and figured I would just jump in and give it a shot

@PadawanWarrior I've been watering with fox farm trio schedule mixed to half strength once weekly and then watering 3-4 days later with distilled water. Pretty much twice a week. I also mist the leaves with distilled whenever I'm in the tent checking on things. What makes you think there are bugs?

The white dots I see on the leaves.

 

[BluntMoniker]

This is my first 3-4 weeks of growing so I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing. Did a lot of reading past few months and figured I would just jump in and give it a shot

@PadawanWarrior I've been watering with fox farm trio schedule mixed to half strength once weekly and then watering 3-4 days later with distilled water. Pretty much twice a week. I also mist the leaves with distilled whenever I'm in the tent checking on things. What makes you think there are bugs?

Tiny webs under leaves, tiny discolored spots on leaves, irregular yellowing, tiny black dots under leaves are all signs of mites.

I see what padawan sees, but it kinda looks like perlite pieces to me lol. But it's hard to tell what they are, and they are all over. If you can, get some close ups of the leaves at various places so we can better see.

If it is mites, you caught it perfect time... can work on eradication before you have buds on the plant (nobody likes pesticides on their smoke )

 

[BluntMoniker]

Also, now that I'm zoomed all the way in looking around...

You might can ease up on your nutes a bit. If I read correctly your in fox farm soil (I'm guessing ocean forrest) and using fox farm nutes? Fox farm soil is pretty hot to begin with, and their recommended doses are high.

Your leaf serrations are all JUST starting to raise up, which is usually a sign of too much N. Maybe drop down to 1/3 or 1/4 dosing once a week and see how she does.

Your not killing her by any means, she looks pretty good... I'm just a proponent of less is more. Nutes and soil are too expensive to overdo where you dont have to xD

 

[MidwestTentGrowerDude]

If you can, get some close ups of the leaves at various places so we can better see.

Ya - white dot was just a piece of perlite. Blew right off. Here is a close up (sorry, didn't turn LED off)

I think your right. After looking at close up I think probably too much nutes between fox farm soil and fox farm trio schedule (looks like leaves are curling)

I also started using Calmag 4ml per gallon of distilled water, first time yesterday. I read that because distilled h20 has no minerals, adding calcium and magnesium to the water is really important for the plant.

 

[MidwestTentGrowerDude]

Here are pics without LED.

 

[jonnynobody]

For fuck's sake why are you putting your seedlings in such large containers? Start in dixie cups and then move into a larger pot once you've established a nice root system. It's going to take forever for those babies to establish roots in those monster pots.

I don't see anything wrong with your seedling really. Scope the under side of the leaves with a microscope. Do you see mite eggs? If not then you're over thinking it. By the way, you are over feeding fertilizer. If you have fox farm mixed with worm castings you don't need to add fertilizer for the first 3-4 weeks easily. Especially if you used ocean forest or happy frog. Too hot baby. Cool it down. And if you don't have a scope get one ordered today. You should always be able to inspect your leaves for a mite invasion. Mites suck.

Clean and efficient setup you have there. You're doing great! Keep up the good work man. Start in smaller cups though. It will serve you and your plants well.

 

[BluntMoniker]

For fuck's sake why are you putting your seedlings in such large containers? Start in dixie cups and then move into a larger pot once you've established a nice root system. It's going to take forever for those babies to establish roots in those monster pots.

Start in smaller cups though. It will serve you and your plants well

Why would it take longer to establish a root system in a larger environment than it does in a smaller one? Plants grown outdoors or in hydro essentially have no boundaries at all, and suffer no issues.

The plants focus while growing, is on its taproot that goes straight down, with fibrous roots growing laterally out from it. In a smaller cup, your taproot hits the bottom, and the plant focuses more heavily on fibrous and capillary root growth. That's why when you change pots, you see many small roots circling the outside of the soil.

When you pot up, the lateral roots are able to decompress from being bound together, and the taproot again begins to take focus, until again hitting the bottom, and so on and so on. Not only that, but every time your changing pots, your introducing stress to your plant.

If anything, starting small and going big is more work for you, and more stress on the plants root system. The only reason people do it usually is for space requirements in their grow areas. Cant have seedlings in 5gal pots taking up ur entire veg chamber on a perpetual grow.

 

[Gentlemencorpse]

Why would it take longer to establish a root system in a larger environment than it does in a smaller one? Plants grown outdoors or in hydro essentially have no boundaries at all, and suffer no issues.

The plants focus while growing, is on its taproot that goes straight down, with fibrous roots growing laterally out from it. In a smaller cup, your taproot hits the bottom, and the plant focuses more heavily on fibrous and capillary root growth. That's why when you change pots, you see many small roots circling the outside of the soil.

When you pot up, the lateral roots are able to decompress from being bound together, and the taproot again begins to take focus, until again hitting the bottom, and so on and so on. Not only that, but every time your changing pots, your introducing stress to your plant.

If anything, starting small and going big is more work for you, and more stress on the plants root system. The only reason people do it usually is for space requirements in their grow areas. Cant have seedlings in 5gal pots taking up ur entire veg chamber on a perpetual grow.

Also because people tend to overwater in large pots and drown their plants. Starting small makes it easier to manage. Also, based off research on tomato growing there is some evidence that plants that prefer wet/dry soil cycles (including cannabis) grow stronger root systems when they are in smaller containers early on, but I've never seen a reason why that would be. I will say my plants have always seemed to grow faster when I up-pot then when I go straight into their final pot, but obviously that's purely anecdotal.

 

[Gentlemencorpse]

Oh, and OP, stop misting your plants. Unless your treating something or using a nutrient solution that's specifically designed for foliar application it's more likely to cause harm than do any good. It invites powdery mildew and gnats, plus the water droplets on the leaves can magnify the light and cause burns. It basically doesn't help the plants at all.

 

[MidwestTentGrowerDude]

For fuck's sake why are you putting your seedlings in such large containers? Start in dixie cups and then move into a larger pot once you've established a nice root system. It's going to take forever for those babies to establish roots in those monster pots.

Ya, I tried germ seeds in rockwool in some with heated mat first. I messed that

For my 2nd trial I figured I would just 'keep it simple stupid' and germinated seeds using paper towel method. After I had a good size taproot/tail, went straight into its final 5gal cloth pot

Next time I will probably start in solo cups and then transplant to 5gal

I don't see anything wrong with your seedling really. Scope the under side of the leaves with a microscope. Do you see mite eggs? If not then you're over thinking it. By the way, you are over feeding fertilizer. If you have fox farm mixed with worm castings you don't need to add fertilizer for the first 3-4 weeks easily. Especially if you used ocean forest or happy frog. Too hot baby. Cool it down. And if you don't have a scope get one ordered today. You should always be able to inspect your leaves for a mite invasion. Mites suck.

Clean and efficient setup you have there. You're doing great! Keep up the good work man. Start in smaller cups though. It will serve you and your plants well.

Thanks for the feedback. I just ordered handheld microscope to help look for mites/eggs etc

 

[MidwestTentGrowerDude]

Oh, and OP, stop misting your plants. Unless your treating something or using a nutrient solution that's specifically designed for foliar application it's more likely to cause harm than do any good. It invites powdery mildew and gnats, plus the water droplets on the leaves can magnify the light and cause burns. It basically doesn't help the plants at all.

Ok - Thanks for saying that - I thought that was something they wanted. I'll stop misting them

 

[jonnynobody]

Why would it take longer to establish a root system in a larger environment than it does in a smaller one? Plants grown outdoors or in hydro essentially have no boundaries at all, and suffer no issues.

The plants focus while growing, is on its taproot that goes straight down, with fibrous roots growing laterally out from it. In a smaller cup, your taproot hits the bottom, and the plant focuses more heavily on fibrous and capillary root growth. That's why when you change pots, you see many small roots circling the outside of the soil.

When you pot up, the lateral roots are able to decompress from being bound together, and the taproot again begins to take focus, until again hitting the bottom, and so on and so on. Not only that, but every time your changing pots, your introducing stress to your plant.

If anything, starting small and going big is more work for you, and more stress on the plants root system. The only reason people do it usually is for space requirements in their grow areas. Cant have seedlings in 5gal pots taking up ur entire veg chamber on a perpetual grow.

You're thinking the wrong way. It's about increased rate of wet and dry cycles thereby stimulating root growth and the plants metabolism and rate of growth. I flower in 5 gallon drain to waste hydro buckets in 100% pure perlite. They all start in the clone bucket and then into a 44 oz. hempy cup with 100% perlite. If from seed they begin in a 16 oz. foam cup with holes punched and happy frog potting soil. Whether they are starting from seed or from clones in the clone bucket, they both begin their lives in a small cup. If I planted my clones directly into a 5 gallon bucket the root system and plant would grow much more slowly, because of the decreased frequency of a wet and dry cycle. There just aren't enough roots to suck that 5 gallon bucket dry fast enough to promote rapid growth in a seeding. Try it both ways and see for yourself.

Think of the wet and dry cycle like the plant's heartbeat. Give her some cardio

 

[MidwestTentGrowerDude]

You're thinking the wrong way. It's about increased rate of wet and dry cycles thereby stimulating root growth and the plants metabolism and rate of growth. I flower in 5 gallon drain to waste hydro buckets in 100% pure perlite. They all start in the clone bucket and then into a 44 oz. hempy cup with 100% perlite. If from seed they begin in a 16 oz. foam cup with holes punched and happy frog potting soil. Whether they are starting from seed or from clones in the clone bucket, they both begin their lives in a small cup. If I planted my clones directly into a 5 gallon bucket the root system and plant would grow much more slowly, because of the decreased frequency of a wet and dry cycle. There just aren't enough roots to suck that 5 gallon bucket dry fast enough to promote rapid growth in a seeding. Try it both ways and see for yourself.

Think of the wet and dry cycle like the plant's heartbeat. Give her some cardio

Wow, thank you for the perspective. I love the heart beat analogy for wet dry cycles. This newb is feeling enlighten