I GOTTA LOSE THE AIR PUMPS! HOW?! Plus my awesome mini DWC :)

Keesje

Well-Known Member
Adding an air stone in an E&F set up is unnecessary. (If this is what you did)
There is already so much oxygen available with E&F.
For 2 reasons:
1. The pump agitates the water (the stream and the water rising in the tray) thus a maximum DO.
2. After the water has drained away, the roots stay wet. Wet roots surrounded by oxygen in gaseous state. Perfect. In my opinion one of the main benefits of E&F.
Also, think about this: If you give water in soil or cocos, do you have an air stone in your res? No, because there is no need for it.
Oxygen will reach the wet roots slipping through the small holes/spaces/channels between the grains. Only if you overwater you will block these holes; you fill them up with water.
What we call 'overwatering' is actually blocking oxygen to reach the roots. Impossible with E&F. (another benefit of E&F)

There are probably 2 reasons why your DWC performed better:
1. In your DWC set up the roots could grow more, larger, wide spread. More roots mean more uptake of water, oxygen, nutrients
2. In DWC the plants have water, oxygen, nutrients available 24/7.

You could do 2 things (but you already did)
1. Make sure the roots have the same space as in DWC. In open light all roots that will stick out the netpot, will die.
By covering the tray you not only made the algae go away, you also gave roots space to grow. There will also be a high humidity under the cover. Perfect for the roots.
2. Get a higher interval of wet/dry in E&F. Scientific research has been conducted and it has been found that a higher watering interval resulted in better plant growth. So why not every hour for 15 minutes? You can't drown them or something like that, as there is plenty of DO once you fill the tray.

Nice, these '1' & '2' points :D
 

Sdh777

Well-Known Member
Thanks Keesje. I’ll implement that new watering schedule today. And won’t the pump in the lower reservoir at least help with stagnation & related issues. I guess if I’ll be flooding & draining hourly, that won’t be a problem...
 

Aqua Man

Well-Known Member
Every systems has downsides and upsides.
I read an article from Wageningen University and their these researchers thought that the tiny bubbles in DWC cause too much movement for the roots, which might be the reason for the plants becoming more vulnerable for diseases. It was not a claim, but they thought that that might be a reason the plants got sick and thus got root rot. I don't know, and they also did not know for sure.
A risk with both waterfall and DWC is that when you have a huge, really dense rootball, that the water inside the rootball stagnates. It is not in contact with fresh oxygenated water. Only the roots on the outside of the ball get enough DO. No risk for this with E&F. But with pump failure, roots in E&F will be dry. If you don't notice within 48 hours or so, it at least gives the plant a shock. Not always dead as some think. Pump failure in DWC will at least not make your roots dry out. Lack of oxygen could be a bigger problem.
So when people say: My system is better, they always forget about the not so good sides of their system.
In the end it is all about: Does your plant get enough Water+DO+Nutrients? If the answer is yes, then the system is good from a biological point of view. Maximum DO is easy to reach. A waterfall, bubbles, a pump on the bottom pushing water up and make a bulge, E&F, sprayers.
I have seen all kinds of systems, and a lot of people claim their system is best. But I never saw a hydro-system that had a significant higher yield then 600 grams per 1 square meter within a shorter period then 10 weeks under 600 HPS. Sure with CO2, but that is not hydro :)
Sometimes people have a higher yield occasionally, but they would have had the same yield with other systems as well. But a system that continuously and with several growers performs better... did not see it.

Another thing: Does it suit you? If I sometimes see the systems that people build with fence posts and tubes, and sprayers, and God knows what, I want to give up this hobby. But other people think 'easy peasy'. That for me is important. What I like, others may dislike. Does not mean my system is better. It is better for my situation and my 'fears'.
I for example drowned plants in soil in past. A lot. The reason I switched to hydro. My friends who are still on soil and coco think I am an idiot. They think hydro is too much work. I also love how clean hydro is. They don't care. I am afraid of leakings. That is why a system with all those connected buckets would be a nightmare for me. I would get up every morning and think 'hope it all stayed put last night'.
So everybody has his angels & demons.

sorry for the long post.
Very well said
 

Jrmy_1

Active Member
Interested in this thread, lots of info for RDWC which I'm planning on setting up and transitioning from Coco Loco soil. I was watching some vids on YouTube for diy Venturi aerators, basically using regular pvc fittings and some tubing - seems easy, cheap and interesting. I was thinking that there isn't a lot of air flow in a bucket so a Venturi would add fresh O2 which I would think would push out stagnant air keep DO up. Thinking of doing RDWC with waterfall and diy Venturi into totes. Any thoughts, here's a vid I was watching:

Also, want to so same for veg tent but since roots will be underdeveloped, was thinking of adding a top feed, think tube feeding top of Hydroton/clay pebbles for early on and then once roots get long use waterfall with aerator Venturi.

Other option is sprayers but sounds like they have plugging issues so not really interested in additional maintenance.
 

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
can i use 3/4" tubing for the waterfall ? like this

To create equal pressure at each bucket, you'll need to use 3/4" for the whole length of from the res and the manifold spanning the length to each bucket. Then you reduce to 1/2" to concentrate bucket to the manifold. Water takes the path of least resistance, so you need to make sure it's even pressure up to each bucket.
 

groweraua

Member
To create equal pressure at each bucket, you'll need to use 3/4" for the whole length of from the res and the manifold spanning the length to each bucket. Then you reduce to 1/2" to concentrate bucket to the manifold. Water takes the path of least resistance, so you need to make sure it's even pressure up to each bucket.
damn and i ordered everything 3/4" even 3/4 fittings for the buckets
 

groweraua

Member
but i am using 3/4 tubing not pipe same as video...

i am building a 4 bucket system with outside tent rez.... reason here for is that my tent is 4x4
 

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
but i am using 3/4 tubing not pipe same as video...

i am building a 4 bucket system with outside tent rez.... reason here for is that my tent is 4x4
Again, path of least resistance. If you don't build a manifold that spans the lengths needed to reach each bucket, and then reduce to a smaller size at the connection from the manifold to the bucket, your pressure will just blow out the first waterfall it reaches and the other back 2, won't be the same pressure. Does that make sense to you?
 

SnidleyBluntash

Well-Known Member
i think the highest upgrade I would do is to get a large air compressor and tank to store huge amounts of air, and have some regulators to limit the flow just perfectly. Since this air compressor will be LOUD it would have to turn on only during the day to not bother anyone. Maybe once or twice. I wonder how big one would have to go to have this set up?
 

groweraua

Member
Again, path of least resistance. If you don't build a manifold that spans the lengths needed to reach each bucket, and then reduce to a smaller size at the connection from the manifold to the bucket, your pressure will just blow out the first waterfall it reaches and the other back 2, won't be the same pressure. Does that make sense to you?
yes got it
 

groweraua

Member
i think the highest upgrade I would do is to get a large air compressor and tank to store huge amounts of air, and have some regulators to limit the flow just perfectly. Since this air compressor will be LOUD it would have to turn on only during the day to not bother anyone. Maybe once or twice. I wonder how big one would have to go to have this set up?
waterfall system does not need an airpump, building one as we speak
 

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
i think the highest upgrade I would do is to get a large air compressor and tank to store huge amounts of air, and have some regulators to limit the flow just perfectly. Since this air compressor will be LOUD it would have to turn on only during the day to not bother anyone. Maybe once or twice. I wonder how big one would have to go to have this set up?
interesting idea, not very practical though. The point is to lose the concept of pushing air, PERIOD. This is why the builds use waterfalls instead.
 

Jrmy_1

Active Member
You don't need to add venturis. It's not necessary. If you go PVC for your entire manifold, spray heads are as simple as threaded end caps with 3-4 holes in them.
@fragileassassin
But how do you get fresh O2 into the pot if you don't have something to move air in and out as well? E&F naturally replenishes O2 during drain. How does DWC get fresh air when liquid level doesn't change?
 
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