Plants in different stages keep developing fully red stems, leaves turn yellow and droop. Water experts get in here!

[deimos phobos]

Hey all! New grower here who keeps running into problems at different stages of attempts, but always with the exact same problems: my plants end up getting BRIGHT RED stems, main stem and everything included. Quite a shocking sight. And the leaves will turn yellow, and droop.

It really sucks because I've been studying the forum posts and literature like a madman and it's very disheartening to keep running into this problem over and over. I need to get this corrected in my "baby's first steps" because I want to commit to a 150 gallon geopot no-till grow. But am not going to put all the money into a huge bed of soil and worms and insects just to kill them all...

At this point I'm worried it's something with my water supply. Quick background on it - I'm in the city with basically the hardest water in Canada. On the graph of a list of cities we are right at the very tippity top because it's almost entirely sourced from rock laden groundwater. To make things worse, it's also treated heavily with Chloramines. Pulling up the townships 2019 water reports show Chloramines from 1.2-1.8 on monthly tests. So I got an RO system installed when I first began. It's a good unit that only wastes 1:1 water and the PPM comes out ultra low now. BUT, apparently, I just assumed it would take care of chlorine and chloramine and it does NOT. Apparently requires a special filter.

What happens? I'm fine at germination it seems as I have a 100% success rate. I wait for roots to develop and I transplant up, often multiple times, with zero problems. However, shortly into things, sometimes in veg, or in my current case also now even at W5 flower, the red stems and wilting leaves start happening. The lower leaves start brightening and turning a pale yellow, and then eventually seem to start going almost white. I'll attach pictures tonight, they're currently in the dark. But thought maybe with a super detailed description we could get the ball rolling..

DETAILS:
Medium: Supersoil (Destiny Organics) https://www.destinyorganics.ca/ 5gal pots
Light: https://www.ledgrowlightsdepot.com/products/equinox-1000 (samsung lm301b 3000k)
Monitor: Pulse One https://getpulse.co/
Water: RO that comes out of the faucet at a low pH of only 5.0. I've been using a tiny pinch of https://www.amazon.ca/TNB-Naturals-Dry-pH-1lb/dp/B0797PWY56 to bring it up to 7.0
Feedings: Well, I follow the Destiny program which calls for weekly doses of Fish Hydrosylate, Compost Teas, and Kelp feedings in varying amounts at varying times. Also there are a couple top dressings in bloom.
Tent: Gorilla Tent 4x4, HyperFan, tons of air flow. I aim for VPD 1.2 during veg and 1.5 during flower, not always successful due to the lower temps at night. But it's not too far off usually.
Temps: High of 78 with lights maxed, lowest recorded temp ever during night this winter has been 64.8. So pretty cold. I thought maybe the cause of the stems at first.


So after all of this, I'm basically mega confused.

Coldness problems? I thought maybe the cold was causing the red stems but it seems like they would turn purplish and not literally bright red. Also the fact even the major main stems all turned red is not normal I'm going to assume. Plus that wouldn't account for the yellowing/whitening of the lower leaves

pH problems? Well it definitely comes out of the RO tap way too low at 5.0 but I'm always testing multiple times and it easily jumps up to 7 with a tiny application of TNB pH up

Ca or Mg problems? I have not been supplementing the RO water with any Ca Mg additives as it mostly seems like they weren't organic. Also assumed this Destiny soil and all of its top dressings and teas would have enough of all of that

Underfeeding problems? (N or P or K?) Very possibly, I cut the feedings way down at one point when I was worried it was nutrient related. But which, and how do I begin to tackle it?

Water problems? This is the one I'm leaning towards because I think I've been drowning my plants in pure RO water loaded with chloramines? What do I need to be doing to this RO water to make sure it's correctly ready for use? After doing a ton of research it sounds like I need a product called Seachem Prime to destroy the high chlorine, ammonia, and chloramine counts.


If you made it this far: THANKS for reading. And sorry for killing you guys with the long post but I need some expert help here

Cheers from Southwest Ontario!

 

[MustangStudFarm]

It really sucks because I've been studying the forum posts and literature like a madman and it's very disheartening to keep running into this problem over and over. I need to get this corrected in my "baby's first steps" because I want to commit to a 150 gallon geopot no-till grow. But am not going to put all the money into a huge bed of soil and worms and insects just to kill them all...

There is a $30 soil test called Soil Savvy and it's a solubility test showing lock-out, unlike the Mehlich 3 test. Anyways, it's easy to read(bar graph) and everything is prepaid like postage and lab fees. Plus, it comes with a container for the soil and scooper so you will use the right amount of soil. I started buying them in bulk for $25 each. I'm pretty sure that it will show high phosphorus and low micronutrients, but you really don't know until you have it tested. If you are tired of guessing, you will do it. $30 now can save you $$$ down the road

 

[youraveragehorticulturist]

Have you tried just using your water without filtering it and adding pH up?

What's in your soil? If it's "Super" and full of amendments you shouldn't need fish hydro or kelp feedings during the veg stage.

Also, drowning small plants with water in big pots can cause problems.

It sounds like you're trying to do too much and overfeeding, maybe causing lock out issues with messed up pH, and drowning your roots.

 

[TheSadVeryBadMadGrower]

It sounds like you're trying to do too much and overfeeding, maybe causing lock out issues with messed up pH, and drowning your roots.

This right here...

 

[hillbill]

Small young plants in big pots almost guarantee over watering.

 

[deimos phobos]

Sigh

Ok, I won’t even bother

 

[Wastei]

I think you're overdoing it like everybody's suggesting.

But you probably have to low temperaturen in the the containers. 78F is pretty low for organics especially if you're running LED's. This and overwatering like other people suggested.

 

[youraveragehorticulturist]

Sigh

Ok, I won’t even bother

I think you should try not using the ROed, pH water. Chloramines in your water are not a big deal. They won't sterilize your soil. If you're super anxious about them bubble your water for a day or two or something to ease your mind.

The plants you showed in your other thread look deficient in Magnesium (light areas between the dark veins in your leaves). You also mentioned red stems, another sign low low magnesium. You're actively filtering magnesium out of your water, on purpose. Stop doing that and see if it helps.

I don't think using pHed water is helping much either. Cannabis like a slightly acidic rootzone, below 7.0. going higher can limit uptake of some nutrients, not to mention what the chemicals may be doing to your soil microbes which help your plant take up nutrietns. So stop adjusting and see what happens.

Also dude, you should cultivate a more positive mindset.

 

[Vulcanofilo]

Hey all! New grower here who keeps running into problems at different stages of attempts, but always with the exact same problems: my plants end up getting BRIGHT RED stems, main stem and everything included. Quite a shocking sight. And the leaves will turn yellow, and droop.

It really sucks because I've been studying the forum posts and literature like a madman and it's very disheartening to keep running into this problem over and over. I need to get this corrected in my "baby's first steps" because I want to commit to a 150 gallon geopot no-till grow. But am not going to put all the money into a huge bed of soil and worms and insects just to kill them all...

At this point I'm worried it's something with my water supply. Quick background on it - I'm in the city with basically the hardest water in Canada. On the graph of a list of cities we are right at the very tippity top because it's almost entirely sourced from rock laden groundwater. To make things worse, it's also treated heavily with Chloramines. Pulling up the townships 2019 water reports show Chloramines from 1.2-1.8 on monthly tests. So I got an RO system installed when I first began. It's a good unit that only wastes 1:1 water and the PPM comes out ultra low now. BUT, apparently, I just assumed it would take care of chlorine and chloramine and it does NOT. Apparently requires a special filter.

What happens? I'm fine at germination it seems as I have a 100% success rate. I wait for roots to develop and I transplant up, often multiple times, with zero problems. However, shortly into things, sometimes in veg, or in my current case also now even at W5 flower, the red stems and wilting leaves start happening. The lower leaves start brightening and turning a pale yellow, and then eventually seem to start going almost white. I'll attach pictures tonight, they're currently in the dark. But thought maybe with a super detailed description we could get the ball rolling..

DETAILS:
Medium: Supersoil (Destiny Organics) https://www.destinyorganics.ca/ 5gal pots
Light: https://www.ledgrowlightsdepot.com/products/equinox-1000 (samsung lm301b 3000k)
Monitor: Pulse One https://getpulse.co/
Water: RO that comes out of the faucet at a low pH of only 5.0. I've been using a tiny pinch of https://www.amazon.ca/TNB-Naturals-Dry-pH-1lb/dp/B0797PWY56 to bring it up to 7.0
Feedings: Well, I follow the Destiny program which calls for weekly doses of Fish Hydrosylate, Compost Teas, and Kelp feedings in varying amounts at varying times. Also there are a couple top dressings in bloom.
Tent: Gorilla Tent 4x4, HyperFan, tons of air flow. I aim for VPD 1.2 during veg and 1.5 during flower, not always successful due to the lower temps at night. But it's not too far off usually.
Temps: High of 78 with lights maxed, lowest recorded temp ever during night this winter has been 64.8. So pretty cold. I thought maybe the cause of the stems at first.


So after all of this, I'm basically mega confused.

Coldness problems? I thought maybe the cold was causing the red stems but it seems like they would turn purplish and not literally bright red. Also the fact even the major main stems all turned red is not normal I'm going to assume. Plus that wouldn't account for the yellowing/whitening of the lower leaves

pH problems? Well it definitely comes out of the RO tap way too low at 5.0 but I'm always testing multiple times and it easily jumps up to 7 with a tiny application of TNB pH up

Ca or Mg problems? I have not been supplementing the RO water with any Ca Mg additives as it mostly seems like they weren't organic. Also assumed this Destiny soil and all of its top dressings and teas would have enough of all of that

¿Problemas de alimentación insuficiente? (¿N, P o K?) Muy posiblemente, reduje la alimentación en un momento dado cuando me preocupaba que estuviera relacionado con los nutrientes. ¿Pero cuál y cómo empiezo a abordarlo?

Problemas de agua? ¿Hacia dónde me inclino porque creo que he estado ahogando mis plantas en agua pura de RO cargada con cloraminas? ¿Qué necesito hacer con esta agua RO para asegurarme de que esté correctamente lista para usar? Después de investigar mucho, parece que necesito un producto llamado Seachem Prime para destruir los altos recuentos de cloro, amoníaco y cloramina.


Si llegaste hasta aquí: GRACIAS por leer. Y perdón por matarlos con la publicación larga pero necesito ayuda experta aquí

¡Saludos desde el suroeste de Ontario!
[/CITAR]
Haz una prueba sobre virus

 

[4ftRoots]

You are way overthinking it. Just make a great soil with plenty of life then water. Don't pH, don't add calmag, don't filter with RO system.

If anything, buy more worms and mix the soil yourself following coots mix or similar. You need to understand why your adding amendments.

Then your off to the races.

 

[dwood8165]

lets start with genetics. if it is a good OG, they will show the signs of purple all through the plant. Combat it with more P, they love the P. warmth can play a role. hell if you are lacking P in any strain you will get the purple in branches and stems. sometimes we forget about the P and K in veg but the plant does absorb its fair share for root growth during veg. then introduce calmag. with a really good bacteria feed. but before doing any of this. Give the plants at least 2 good watering of nothing but water. this will help clean the roots and wash away anything that not good

 

[LawnXweeds]

Chloramines in your water are not a big deal. They won't sterilize your soil.

Are the microorganisms found in cannabis soil immune to chloramine or something? I don't see how using water that has an antimicrobial agent won't have a negative impact.

 

[LawnXweeds]

Don't pH, don't add calmag, don't filter with RO system.

What if your tap water is hard and has a pH of >8?

 

[hillbill]

Incredibly hard water here from dolomite dolorock, eats coffee makers and water heaters and toilet valves, ph 7.

 

[youraveragehorticulturist]

Are the microorganisms found in cannabis soil immune to chloramine or something? I don't see how using water that has an antimicrobial agent won't have a negative impact.

Well, yes, there may be a negative impact, but a it's a minor, short term, small negative impact on some microbes in the soil. They repopulate before it's a problem for your plants(citation needed).

Using reverse osmosis water seems to cause lots of more serious problems, more often, directly for plants. In my opinion it has a greater negative impact than the chloramines.

I used to obsess over removing chloramines by bubbling or adding kelp or compost to water, or whatever. Then I gradually stopped worrying about it and haven't had any worse results. I think with compost top dress I can stay ahead of the chloramines.

 

[loco41]

Well, yes, there may be a negative impact, but a it's a minor, short term, small negative impact on some microbes in the soil. They repopulate before it's a problem for your plants(citation needed).

Using reverse osmosis water seems to cause lots of more serious problems, more often, directly for plants. In my opinion it has a greater negative impact than the chloramines.

I used to obsess over removing chloramines by bubbling or adding kelp or compost to water, or whatever. Then I gradually stopped worrying about it and haven't had any worse results. I think with compost top dress I can stay ahead of the chloramines.

I agree 100%. I used water in two different states, both having a ph of 8+ and chloramine. I never had a problem with the water itself, just my watering habits. Sometimes I add things to water, but majority of water is straight from the tap and onto the plants within an hour or so. I recently switched over to using a chapin sprayer with the nozzle off so its a slow constant stream. I think it's making a huge difference in properly wetting the soil and my plants are all doing great.

To the OP, I would suggest building your own soil from here on out. I have read up a bunch on others experience and don't have a lot myself, but have had very minimal issues after starting a worm bin and making my own compost. After that, it's some peat/aeration and whatever amendments you choose to go with and your set. Even with store bought compost or castings, I think you'll be able to get a better result by having more control of what's in there. I follow some recipes loosely, but no real exact thing I follow, just try to follow some basic guidelines of additions.

Hope your plants are doing better whatever way youwent though sir, best of luck.

 

[4ftRoots]

What if your tap water is hard and has a pH of >8?

If we are talking strictly organic... Your soil soil have the buffering capability for years to come. If you start to see if effects that means your soil is lacking organic matter. Add more organic matter and your good to go.

For funsies, take some high/low ph water and throw in some EWC. It should stabilize to the EWC PH fairly quickly with some agitation.

 

[cannabineer]

Hey all! New grower here who keeps running into problems at different stages of attempts, but always with the exact same problems: my plants end up getting BRIGHT RED stems, main stem and everything included. Quite a shocking sight. And the leaves will turn yellow, and droop.

It really sucks because I've been studying the forum posts and literature like a madman and it's very disheartening to keep running into this problem over and over. I need to get this corrected in my "baby's first steps" because I want to commit to a 150 gallon geopot no-till grow. But am not going to put all the money into a huge bed of soil and worms and insects just to kill them all...

At this point I'm worried it's something with my water supply. Quick background on it - I'm in the city with basically the hardest water in Canada. On the graph of a list of cities we are right at the very tippity top because it's almost entirely sourced from rock laden groundwater. To make things worse, it's also treated heavily with Chloramines. Pulling up the townships 2019 water reports show Chloramines from 1.2-1.8 on monthly tests. So I got an RO system installed when I first began. It's a good unit that only wastes 1:1 water and the PPM comes out ultra low now. BUT, apparently, I just assumed it would take care of chlorine and chloramine and it does NOT. Apparently requires a special filter.

What happens? I'm fine at germination it seems as I have a 100% success rate. I wait for roots to develop and I transplant up, often multiple times, with zero problems. However, shortly into things, sometimes in veg, or in my current case also now even at W5 flower, the red stems and wilting leaves start happening. The lower leaves start brightening and turning a pale yellow, and then eventually seem to start going almost white. I'll attach pictures tonight, they're currently in the dark. But thought maybe with a super detailed description we could get the ball rolling..

DETAILS:
Medium: Supersoil (Destiny Organics) https://www.destinyorganics.ca/ 5gal pots
Light: https://www.ledgrowlightsdepot.com/products/equinox-1000 (samsung lm301b 3000k)
Monitor: Pulse One https://getpulse.co/
Water: RO that comes out of the faucet at a low pH of only 5.0. I've been using a tiny pinch of https://www.amazon.ca/TNB-Naturals-Dry-pH-1lb/dp/B0797PWY56 to bring it up to 7.0
Feedings: Well, I follow the Destiny program which calls for weekly doses of Fish Hydrosylate, Compost Teas, and Kelp feedings in varying amounts at varying times. Also there are a couple top dressings in bloom.
Tent: Gorilla Tent 4x4, HyperFan, tons of air flow. I aim for VPD 1.2 during veg and 1.5 during flower, not always successful due to the lower temps at night. But it's not too far off usually.
Temps: High of 78 with lights maxed, lowest recorded temp ever during night this winter has been 64.8. So pretty cold. I thought maybe the cause of the stems at first.


So after all of this, I'm basically mega confused.

Coldness problems? I thought maybe the cold was causing the red stems but it seems like they would turn purplish and not literally bright red. Also the fact even the major main stems all turned red is not normal I'm going to assume. Plus that wouldn't account for the yellowing/whitening of the lower leaves

pH problems? Well it definitely comes out of the RO tap way too low at 5.0 but I'm always testing multiple times and it easily jumps up to 7 with a tiny application of TNB pH up

Ca or Mg problems? I have not been supplementing the RO water with any Ca Mg additives as it mostly seems like they weren't organic. Also assumed this Destiny soil and all of its top dressings and teas would have enough of all of that

Underfeeding problems? (N or P or K?) Very possibly, I cut the feedings way down at one point when I was worried it was nutrient related. But which, and how do I begin to tackle it?

Water problems? This is the one I'm leaning towards because I think I've been drowning my plants in pure RO water loaded with chloramines? What do I need to be doing to this RO water to make sure it's correctly ready for use? After doing a ton of research it sounds like I need a product called Seachem Prime to destroy the high chlorine, ammonia, and chloramine counts.


If you made it this far: THANKS for reading. And sorry for killing you guys with the long post but I need some expert help here

Cheers from Southwest Ontario!

RO membranes shouldn’t pass chloramine. However if they do, one 500mg vitamin C tab for every 10 liters ought to kill it and any chlorine. Regarding cal-mag, I’ve heard good things about admixing dolomite lime to the soil. If you’re willing to go to harder drugs, CaliMagic will up your cal and mag in your current grow.