Having Trouble Diagnosing Under vs Over Watering

[satchmho]

My first time posting here, have used the site's info for years though.
I'm currently growing in 3 gallon fabric pots, which I haven't used before. I'm using a somewhat new-to-me mix of about 50% ocean forest, 25% perlite, and 25% coco coir (haven't used the coco before). For some reason I am having a lot of leaf droop, more specifically stem to leaf droop, almost whole plant droop. I cannot seem to dial in the right amount of water for them, having tested by finger and moisture meter both, and when seemingly very dry, watering didn't perk them up much if at all. Some are doing fine and some seem to go in and out of it, but others are more consistently affected.
I'm using an array of 5 led lights in a 4x8 tent. The led's are "rated 1000W" but only draw about 150w at the wall each, so take that with it's grain of salt. I have a nice exhaust fan pulling air out always and several smaller fans inside moving air around. I water by hand and typically give around maybe 12oz of water at a time, very rough estimate. I have been very light on nutrients, only giving two feedings of around 350ppm, otherwise just purified water with some cal mag and silica supplements. They are at 5 weeks exactly since the popped seeds were placed into the soil. I am spending tons of time reading up on differentiating signs of over and under watering and cannot figure this out for some reason. I am including some pictures that hopefully help inform what I've described. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[westcoast420]

When you water how much are you giving them? Ditch the moisture meter, you need to learn how dry they are by looking at the surface of the medium and how heavy the pot is. Its very hard to tell with those lights on but the medium looks dry from those pics. Can you take pics without the led on? Also how far away is your light and what temp and humidity do you have?

 

[satchmho]

When you water how much are you giving them? Ditch the moisture meter, you need to learn how dry they are by looking at the surface of the medium and how heavy the pot is. Its very hard to tell with those lights on but the medium looks dry from those pics. Can you take pics without the led on? Also how far away is your light and what temp and humidity do you have?

Yeah I agree, I've done it all from picking the pots up to gauging by sight and feeling the soil, the moisture meter is just for another reference point. Even when some were very light and felt dry, and then I watered, they still were drooping. Maybe it wasnt enough though? Some I tested w a good amount of water though.
To answer your question, probably around 12 oz of water at a time, maybe a little less. The lights are about 18 in. away. Temps are down to 65 at "night" and average just around 72 during their day. Humidity ranges from 45 to 70%.

 

[tiltswitch]

3 gallon pots needs about 2 litres of feed/water .They look fine to me just, if you've recently potted up then they might feel like they don't need water but the roots haven't grown enough to reach the moisture yet and you'll need to keep an eye out for that. Otherwise they look good mate

 

[westcoast420]

And how often are you giving them that amount? That is a pretty small amount in 3's like tiltswitch said, I would find the lightest one and give it a solid amount like 1.5 to 2 litres of feed.

 

[satchmho]

And how often are you giving them that amount? That is a pretty small amount in 3's like tiltswitch said, I would find the lightest one and give it a solid amount like 1.5 to 2 litres of feed.

I am leaning toward them being under now. So I just watered the lightest ones, noticeably lighter than the others, about 30 oz each. Will check in the morning to see how they reacted.
From seed to week 3 or so they grew great with zero issues, I've only recently lost the ability to gauge their water needs, apparently. I've over watered before so I think sometimes I lean toward under, possibly too far. And their needs would go up as they grow so maybe I wasnt keeping up with that accurately. I'll report what I see. Thanks for the input.

 

[coreywebster]

I would say its consistent underwatering combined with been low temp. If you can slow your extraction down and get temp up to 78+ they will perk up.
With cloth pots I would suggest watering each pot with 1ltr and then start at the first one again with another ltr . You want a little bit of run off but you have to slowly water them or you get water running down the sides and looking like run off even though the medium is not properly saturated.

 

[satchmho]

I would say its consistent underwatering combined with been low temp. If you can slow your extraction down and get temp up to 78+ they will perk up.
With cloth pots I would suggest watering each pot with 1ltr and then start at the first one again with another ltr . You want a little bit of run off but you have to slowly water them or you get water running down the sides and looking like run off even though the medium is not properly saturated.

I think you're probably right. And yeah, I've noticed the water running out, especially where the handles are stitched on. It will run right out, but then as the medium gets wetter and can pull the water in, I've seen it seep out then some immediately get pulled back in.

 

[turbobuzz]

They don't look so bad to me. Are those Spring Pots? If so, that's what I use as well in 5 gal. I really like them. I've not had any watering issues with mine. I water a half gallon at a time. About every third day. I get just a very little bit out the sides, and none out the bottom.

 

[Renfro]

Just FYI, I don't advise mixing coco with soil. Here is why.

Coco most often likes a lower pH than soil.

Coco does NOT like to dry out but soil has to or you get root rot.

Either should be watered heavy so you get about 20% runoff through the bottom to prevent salt buildups if feeding. When I say "if feeding" I mean bottle fed and not something like TLO, you generally don't want to wash the nutrients out of your organic soil with runoff.

With soil you wait until the soil dries such that the pot is light but the plant is not wilted, then you water again with the run off if feeding.

With coco you only want it to dry out halfway before the watering with run off.

Hope all that helps.

 

[satchmho]

It's good info. I've read about people blending them, however, to create a slightly different overall composition. I imagine the overall watering needs would change based on that overall composition more so than a severe clashing of the coco and soil?

 

[BigSco508]

Next time

 

[Kushash]

I would say its consistent underwatering combined with been low temp. If you can slow your extraction down and get temp up to 78+ they will perk up.
With cloth pots I would suggest watering each pot with 1ltr and then start at the first one again with another ltr . You want a little bit of run off but you have to slowly water them or you get water running down the sides and looking like run off even though the medium is not properly saturated.

Could be underwatering but I would think with consistent underwatering that the lowest fan leaves would dry up and die and I'm not seeing that with his plant.

 

[coreywebster]

Could be underwatering but I would think with consistent underwatering that the lowest fan leaves would dry up and die and I'm not seeing that with his plant.

Yeah man, that's a good point. Your right.
I think at the rate he was watering that would happen in due time.
If it were my room I would concentrate on getting temps up a bit, I think that would perk them up.

Not like they are in a shocking state, just a bit sad.

 

[satchmho]

Thanks for everyone chiming in. Appreciate the input.

 

[Rocket Soul]

I agree with cory, get temps up. Droopy cause theyre not drinking or transpiring, cause theyre not hot enough. knowing about how VPD affects your plant is important in a led grow.

 

[BigSco508]

Just gonna chime in with you might wanna move your light up a bit i had the same problem almost roasted my plants but mine are HLG QB 96 Elites so idk if that's is your problem and what is your humidity level at ?

 

[Kassiopeija]

It's good info. I've read about people blending them, however, to create a slightly different overall composition. I imagine the overall watering needs would change based on that overall composition more so than a severe clashing of the coco and soil?

well the added coco will make the substrate more airy, so it would be harder to overwater. Coco also can hold more water than soil so you'd still had to completely moisture everything that's in that pot.

 

[OzPacks]

its overwatering. you can tell because the leaf stems are pointing up, then the leafs are drooping down. if it was under watering, the stems and leafs would both be pointing straight down

 

[OzPacks]

well the added coco will make the substrate more airy, so it would be harder to overwater. Coco also can hold more water than soil so you'd still had to completely moisture everything that's in that pot.

use perlite, not coco