Plants sick under hlg 600s

sourdieselyumyum

Well-Known Member
I recently switched from 600 watt mh to the hlg 600h rspec fixtures and have been having problems with the plants. Nothing has changed other than the light swap I’ve been feeding jacks 321 formula. The plants look sick and have purple stalks/ leaf veins. They are in cyco coco seamix/wormix which is a combo of coco earthworm castings and kelp with perlite. I’ve had this problem before with knockoff quantum boards and thought it was cause they weren’t correct spectrum but am now have same problems with the name brand ones. Any ideas?
 

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sourdieselyumyum

Well-Known Member
whats a safe rate to bump it up to. I was giving them just a straight 3 grams of part a 2 grams of part b and 1 gram of epsom salt then I bumped up to 3.6 2.4 1.2
 

rob333

Well-Known Member
I recently switched from 600 watt mh to the hlg 600h rspec fixtures and have been having problems with the plants. Nothing has changed other than the light swap I’ve been feeding jacks 321 formula. The plants look sick and have purple stalks/ leaf veins. They are in cyco coco seamix/wormix which is a combo of coco earthworm castings and kelp with perlite. I’ve had this problem before with knockoff quantum boards and thought it was cause they weren’t correct spectrum but am now have same problems with the name brand ones. Any ideas?
leds dont give off no were the same heat as a hps there for u would drop how much u water as in your case u are doing the same as u would with hps
 

NeWcS

Well-Known Member
In case you're wondering why everyone is suggesting you raise your temps, its because LEDs don't have the UV power a gas bulb does, if at all. The UV helps to heat the surface of the leaves. This is why you wanna run your tent/room higher to compensate for that.
 

sourdieselyumyum

Well-Known Member
I didn’t get them with dimmers but they are about 4 feet above the tops. 3500k I just adjusted my temps the other day to around mid 80s to see if that would help. When I talked to support guy at jacks he said it seemed more like a phosphorus def than a mag
 

Mullalulla

Well-Known Member
I have a hlg600 for my veg area, need to feed heavy on the cal/mag .. mostly the mag. Will bounce right back.
 

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
I didn’t get them with dimmers but they are about 4 feet above the tops. 3500k I just adjusted my temps the other day to around mid 80s to see if that would help. When I talked to support guy at jacks he said it seemed more like a phosphorus def than a mag
What drivers are on it? Cant you solder a pot to dim with.
Essentially you have swapped a 600mh and doubled your light intensity.
They are suffering from light stress.

You can raise your light, raise your air temps to 80s, reduce your hours of light (if not on minimum veg hours) and they should go back to been green.
Get your vpd and dli sorted and you should be good.

MH is low lm/w, you have at least doubled your lm/w maybe even trebled, it also warms your plants and causes more transpiration which directly increases nutrient uptake, the closer the bulb is the higher the light intensity and the more radiant heat which work together, with LED the relationship is different so you must raise air temps to increase transpiration
 

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
I didn’t get them with dimmers but they are about 4 feet above the tops. 3500k I just adjusted my temps the other day to around mid 80s to see if that would help. When I talked to support guy at jacks he said it seemed more like a phosphorus def than a mag
@sourdieselyumyum

Thanks for that info friend.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to explain my own experience that I have had with LED, earlier this year, I had an electrical issue at my home, and had to get an electrician over to do a few hours of work, which forced me to have to move my plants from the closet setup I had running at the time because that closet was right where the electric box in the house was located (electrician needed in there), and I had to use a generator for a bit, to keep the "fridge" cold.......n the lights running....

So anyhow, I setup some extra LED lighting in a separate room along with a few cfls to keep the (vegging) plants happy while the electrical system was being worked on, the room was much larger and I didn't have enough light coverage at the time, so I ran some LED strip lights that I had l been given by a good friend to test & see if I could get any use out of them, these lights were 6500k integrated type strip lights that people use in garages and so forth, so I had hung these lights up about 3 1/2 feet above thinking it wouldn't be much of an issue (this was my first year with indoor LED, being outdoor/greenhouse grower beforehand) and because it wouldn't be for the whole day I didn't worry initially, however this experience changed the way I look at LED afterwards, because within 2 hours I had young seedlings falling over on their sides like cotyledons to the dirt with the stem arching over, these were Basil seedlings that I had next to my plants that first gave me a warning as to how far my LED light was running above my plants, and these showed the first signs of shock that caused me to raise the lights a bit higher, rearrange the plants a bit more, and place the shocked seedlings in a separate room by a windowsill for that remaining tine afterwards.

None of my Cannabis plants were greatly affected by the LED lighting luckily, but the largest plant closest to the LED did have some signs of damage on the leaves, signs of photon/light toxicity/burn and so forth.

Now I know I sound a bit inexperienced with the telling of this story, but I can't say that this did not trigger me to further my understanding of LED technology, because it did, and I immersed myself with the understanding of it, and my understanding of light spectrum frequencies as a whole, and now able to teach others what I've learned and share.

One thing I will say is that the value of having an adjustable dimmer switch is almost priceless when it comes to tighter quarters & confined spaces, especially for when new plants are just getting acquainted to their new light source and so on (Sorry I know hindsight is 20/20, I've been in those same shoes you're wearing, sucks).

With the 600h r spec, you've got some serious photon output coming out of that machine, and at 3500k you are kind of mid range on the overall light intensity wavelength scale of things, which indicates that the light fixture could be used in closer proximity to the tops of the plants, however some varieties of Cannabis can be more delicate in regards to light intensity than others, this could be part of what had occurred to the plants that you are currently growing, and even at 4ft height seems to have overwhelmed the plants a bit initially, and with the spread & coverage that the 600h puts out, it does seem without ability to dim them down on intensity, that it may be necessary in the future to raise the light as high as 6ft above for the first few days, we are talking about one of the largest single light fixtures being offered in current production, it is a serious machine, there is no doubt about it.

I've had people doubt why I advocate to proper distancing between plants and their light fixtures, up past 4-5ft even, this is why, and the example I provided above is why, and in saying this, real world testing is advisable to know for certain which lights can be used and at what distance, and the corresponding amount of time it takes for plants to adjust to any new spectrum and so forth. Not all LEDs are the same, so this rule doesn't apply to every single diode type out there, but this thought should be kept in mind when putting a new setup together, and or around new plants or seedlings that may need further assistance and care for optimal growing conditions to be manifested.

The last thing I would like to mention as a piece of advice is to add some UV lighting to this setup if you are able, the plants would be better able to harvest more light if UV was added, UV triggers the plant to synthesize light harvesting proteins, carotinoids, and other cellular molecules that assist the plant in its light harvesting endeavors, added UV also boosts overall terpene content and flavoniods such as quercetin for example.

Here's an article that you may find interesting.


Anyway friend, I'm sorry to see what has occurred to your plants, I hope this message can help us relate to each other in this issue together and that we can help avoid any further issues like this in the future, take care now and thank you for your time. :cool:
 

sourdieselyumyum

Well-Known Member
@sourdieselyumyum

Thanks for that info friend.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to explain my own experience that I have had with LED, earlier this year, I had an electrical issue at my home, and had to get an electrician over to do a few hours of work, which forced me to have to move my plants from the closet setup I had running at the time because that closet was right where the electric box in the house was located (electrician needed in there), and I had to use a generator for a bit, to keep the "fridge" cold.......n the lights running....

So anyhow, I setup some extra LED lighting in a separate room along with a few cfls to keep the (vegging) plants happy while the electrical system was being worked on, the room was much larger and I didn't have enough light coverage at the time, so I ran some LED strip lights that I had l been given by a good friend to test & see if I could get any use out of them, these lights were 6500k integrated type strip lights that people use in garages and so forth, so I had hung these lights up about 3 1/2 feet above thinking it wouldn't be much of an issue (this was my first year with indoor LED, being outdoor/greenhouse grower beforehand) and because it wouldn't be for the whole day I didn't worry initially, however this experience changed the way I look at LED afterwards, because within 2 hours I had young seedlings falling over on their sides like cotyledons to the dirt with the stem arching over, these were Basil seedlings that I had next to my plants that first gave me a warning as to how far my LED light was running above my plants, and these showed the first signs of shock that caused me to raise the lights a bit higher, rearrange the plants a bit more, and place the shocked seedlings in a separate room by a windowsill for that remaining tine afterwards.

None of my Cannabis plants were greatly affected by the LED lighting luckily, but the largest plant closest to the LED did have some signs of damage on the leaves, signs of photon/light toxicity/burn and so forth.

Now I know I sound a bit inexperienced with the telling of this story, but I can't say that this did not trigger me to further my understanding of LED technology, because it did, and I immersed myself with the understanding of it, and my understanding of light spectrum frequencies as a whole, and now able to teach others what I've learned and share.

One thing I will say is that the value of having an adjustable dimmer switch is almost priceless when it comes to tighter quarters & confined spaces, especially for when new plants are just getting acquainted to their new light source and so on (Sorry I know hindsight is 20/20, I've been in those same shoes you're wearing, sucks).

With the 600h r spec, you've got some serious photon output coming out of that machine, and at 3500k you are kind of mid range on the overall light intensity wavelength scale of things, which indicates that the light fixture could be used in closer proximity to the tops of the plants, however some varieties of Cannabis can be more delicate in regards to light intensity than others, this could be part of what had occurred to the plants that you are currently growing, and even at 4ft height seems to have overwhelmed the plants a bit initially, and with the spread & coverage that the 600h puts out, it does seem without ability to dim them down on intensity, that it may be necessary in the future to raise the light as high as 6ft above for the first few days, we are talking about one of the largest single light fixtures being offered in current production, it is a serious machine, there is no doubt about it.

I've had people doubt why I advocate to proper distancing between plants and their light fixtures, up past 4-5ft even, this is why, and the example I provided above is why, and in saying this, real world testing is advisable to know for certain which lights can be used and at what distance, and the corresponding amount of time it takes for plants to adjust to any new spectrum and so forth. Not all LEDs are the same, so this rule doesn't apply to every single diode type out there, but this thought should be kept in mind when putting a new setup together, and or around new plants or seedlings that may need further assistance and care for optimal growing conditions to be manifested.

The last thing I would like to mention as a piece of advice is to add some UV lighting to this setup if you are able, the plants would be better able to harvest more light if UV was added, UV triggers the plant to synthesize light harvesting proteins, carotinoids, and other cellular molecules that assist the plant in its light harvesting endeavors, added UV also boosts overall terpene content and flavoniods such as quercetin for example.

Here's an article that you may find interesting.


Anyway friend, I'm sorry to see what has occurred to your plants, I hope this message can help us relate to each other in this issue together and that we can help avoid any further issues like this in the future, take care now and thank you for your time. :cool:
Thanks man Ill look into buying some dimmers for them Im also gonna try maybe giving them between 1.5-1.8 grams of epsom and see if that helps.
 

unfiltered

Well-Known Member
Yeh, listen to @mustbetribbin . I am experiencing what you are going through, the exact issue. Check out my thread I posted yesterday.


These Quantum Boards are evil! :) They burn all my plants to hell. I've lost 3 valuable seedlings and one of my mid flowering plant burned like hotdogs on a grill but hopefully she will finish in 3.5 weeks. I now have 4 seedlings struggling for dear life as I've removed my stand-alone QB and replaced it with a couple of CFLs.

I am still trying to figure out a way to acclimate my plants to these QB's. I think the trick is to have a bunch of clones, seedlings, and mature plants that you can use as sacrifice lambs. Use them to test the distance and intensity. You can use your phone lumin or lux app to measure light intensity and take note of the distance. Test to see at what intensity and distance that would burn or not burn the plants. The light burnt symptoms (ie. droop, curling down, yellowing, interveinal chlorosis leading to necrosis or rust spots which all seem like cal/mag deficiency) will show up in about a week. Forget about how everyone says hanging the QB's 24" at full blast is safe which might work for them, but it's different with everyone's environment, VPD, DLI, etc. If we don't do this testing, then we are playing russian roullete with our prized plants or not having growing at the optimal rate due to low light.

Also, when acclimating the plants to these QBs, increase the intensity by 1K or 2K lux every 5 days or so until you start seeing the light burn symptoms. And for sure you should get a dimmer with these things.
 

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
Hey again @sourdieselyumyum

Glad to shed some light where I was able, hopefully the dimmer option is somewhat straight forward on those HLG models, there are also a few people here on the site that could probably help you with further assistance & they may have a simple solution for people who are running that earlier model.

But yeah they can rebound from light stress pretty quick as long as adjustments to the lighting setup are made soon enough, so I do think you'll still be alright, just have to wait and see what the plants want to do, if they don't green up soon, they might end up wanting to drop some of those leaves, and if you keep an eye on which leaves are turning yellow/brown/fading, and remove just a few of those then the plants can rebound and begin growing again a bit faster, the life of the plant is in the stem (& root), not the leaves, so it's better to keep an eye on what the stems and branches are doing as a whole, than it is to only pay attention to the leaves, stems make slow movements so it does take patience, but with a watchful eye, you can let the plant tell you what it wants to do, and by tracking activities that occur along the stalk/stem/branches we can better understanding the motions that the leaves will follow when it comes to senescence and guiding plant growth along.

I hope they do rebound, just at the same time, if they do get a little sick, it's better to accept it and let the plant provide indicative clues as to what they next course of action is, and I've found that typically by starting down on the lowest part of the stalk and begin looking upwards from there for any patterns of leaf senescence or stagnant leaf growth that signify low light absorbency, leaves that are slouching downwards are typically the ones that exhibit this trait even if they are still green, this is the plant telling you that it currently at little use of said leaf and that it may even be loosing energy by the leaf existing in it's current location, it's natural for this to occur because of vertical growth, it is a common occurrence, so if we can intermentantly remove a few leaves (within reason, if no additional under canopy lighting can be achieved and so forth) here or there then the plant can be guided along into faster new growth development, people like to place a lot of responsibility and adherence to the fact that leaves are an invaluable resource to a plants health and indication of the life of the plant overall, and they are correct, however the stem is the most important (imo) the flowing life force within the stalk and branches from the leaves to the soil should not be underestimated.

So with all this said, I think you'll be fine, as long as the stem was not harmed, which is highly unlikely, and they should continue growing nicely again soon.

Cheers mate.
 
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