Is Trump finished?

[Roger A. Shrubber]

I dont trust them to not just dump it in the ocean in a few years if they don't want it anymore though.

I like the Chinese people that I got to know while in school (was in a stats phd program so got to know a lot of people from different countries). They really are just trying to make a better life for themselves and trying to set it up for as long as possible by reaching out to the rest of the world. And as far as their stealing technology, I kind of think of it as a shovel. It is hard to blame them if they are digging a hole and we let them use a shovel to not make one to use in the future instead of trying to dig with a stick. Same with tech, if something works, they don't really think of it as stealing, they look at it as why would I not use the tool that will do the job the best.

As much as it may suck for a bit, the answer might be to remove our patent system and allow businesses to use anything others have done and come up with a compensation system for the original inventors other than holding the patent.

that's a good way to suppress new technology. i have a great idea for a new product, but i know the minute i release it in any way, the Chinese (along with pretty much everyone else on the planet) will steal my hard work and i won't see one penny from it? then why even bother to tell anyone about it? fuck the thieving bastards.
it doesn't matter what rational you use to condone theft, it's still theft, and the people who worked hard to make an idea a reality are the ones being fucked over...if the Chinese want this technology, they should buy it from the people who own it. period. their personal philosophy doesn't condone theft.

 

[abandonconflict]

I dont trust them to not just dump it in the ocean in a few years if they don't want it anymore though.

I like the Chinese people that I got to know while in school (was in a stats phd program so got to know a lot of people from different countries). They really are just trying to make a better life for themselves and trying to set it up for as long as possible by reaching out to the rest of the world. And as far as their stealing technology, I kind of think of it as a shovel. It is hard to blame them if they are digging a hole and we let them use a shovel to not make one to use in the future instead of trying to dig with a stick. Same with tech, if something works, they don't really think of it as stealing, they look at it as why would I not use the tool that will do the job the best.

As much as it may suck for a bit, the answer might be to remove our patent system and allow businesses to use anything others have done and come up with a compensation system for the original inventors other than holding the patent.

I agree and I have nothing against most Chinese individuals. Some of the customs of mainlanders are unwelcome, like shitting on sidewalks (look it up, I'm not just shit talking) but I'm also fine with Chinese tourism even in my hometown.

In particular, Chinese immigrants who just want a better life have been fleeing China for a very long time. They have proven to be mostly hard working, law abiding and even patriotic toward their new homes. I have nothing against Chinese people or Russians for that matter.

My problem is with the governments that are adversarial to my country.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Wrong.

They outnumber us 6 to 1.

Given our 10 to 1 historical kill ratio against them, a far, far superior air force and navy, we'll be just fine.​

actually it's only 4.23....327 million Americans, 1.386 billion Chinese, which is 4.23 Chinese per American. India is right behind with 4.09 Indians per American.

 

[abandonconflict]

Their population isn't relevant militarily. Even in a ground war it doesn't correlate with the ability to field and deploy a large and well equipped and fed army. China does have a very large capacity to field a massive ground army, that is true. However, even that is only relevant in the case of a US ground invasion of Asia.

THEY CAN'T EVEN INVADE TAIWAN

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

I'm kind of cynical about the whole "send it off to China and they will take care of it in an earth friendly way", kind of thing that we had with them. I'm glad this one ended. We need to set up cradle to grave ownership of materials in all of our products manufactured or sold.

that would require the manufacturers to take responsibility for their poor packaging decisions, and that's not going to happen. they couldn't put 3 cubic inches of product into an 8 cubic in. box, with a plastic liner, several zip ties or twisties, and then wrap the whole thing in plastic....why, they'd have no place to print "new and improved" , no place to put pictures of cartoon characters to make kids want their shit, no place to hide subliminal images designed to make you want their useless shoddy shit.....

 

[dandyrandy]

Im a big fan of capitalism and consumerism. But would love to be able to buy stuff without packaging materials. So much plastic.

Not gonna happen. Knock yourself out. You see I'm probably a bit older and was raised in Appalachia. I used to hunt quail, pheasant, woodcock etc. for food, not entertainment. You never saw deer. People ate them. No season. Since then in order to hunt quail etc. is on a hunting farm. They raise them and turn them loose. Then city people can shoot them. The reality is whether we like it or not the Earth is changing. I have pictures from 10 years ago of my back field full of wildflowers. Millions of bees and monarchs. Now I'll see maybe two monarchs a summer. Bees are far and few between. The Earth will be overrun by what ever species is the most successful. It happens on a small scale all of the time. Birds of prey population varies here based upon food sources etc. But with monarchs it's the overwintering sights. Food sources around are plentiful. Climate change and deforestation has decimated the population. They are considering moving the trees higher in altitude for the monarchs. Crazy times. If people saw the change I have seen or read the amount of data out their they may do something. But not gonna happen. The Earth has changed immensely since it's formation. I've seen it in 75 years. Frogs as well. I could go on but without witnessing it it's hard to understand what was lost and is accelerating.

 

[hanimmal]

that's a good way to suppress new technology. i have a great idea for a new product, but i know the minute i release it in any way, the Chinese (along with pretty much everyone else on the planet) will steal my hard work and i won't see one penny from it? then why even bother to tell anyone about it? fuck the thieving bastards.
it doesn't matter what rational you use to condone theft, it's still theft, and the people who worked hard to make an idea a reality are the ones being fucked over...if the Chinese want this technology, they should buy it from the people who own it. period. their personal philosophy doesn't condone theft.

I guess you missed the having to come up with a compensation system for the inventors part.

If China is going to do this, which they are, our companies are at a disadvantage not being able to do this too. I am all for more corporate security to keep their proprietary info secret, but for the stuff that they can't keep secret and its getting stolen by other companies, it makes sense to me to at least think about allowing our companies to also use that information for innovation so that we have the same opportunity that businesses in China get to use.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

I guess you missed the having to come up with a compensation system for the inventors part.

If China is going to do this, which they are, our companies are at a disadvantage not being able to do this too. I am all for more corporate security to keep their proprietary info secret, but for the stuff that they can't keep secret and its getting stolen by other companies, it makes sense to me to at least think about allowing our companies to also use that information for innovation so that we have the same opportunity that businesses in China get to use.

China steals technology, and denies it when you have the item right in front of them, along with the patent information...how do you propose to enforce any compensation rules when they will lie to your face about how they came up with the exact same tech you did, just a few months (or even weeks) later?
and how do you propose keeping sensitive technology out of the hands of enemies, when China will steal it and sell it to whoever has the cash to buy it?

 

[hanimmal]

Not gonna happen. Knock yourself out. You see I'm probably a bit older and was raised in Appalachia. I used to hunt quail, pheasant, woodcock etc. for food, not entertainment. You never saw deer. People ate them. No season. Since then in order to hunt quail etc. is on a hunting farm. They raise them and turn them loose. Then city people can shoot them. The reality is whether we like it or not the Earth is changing. I have pictures from 10 years ago of my back field full of wildflowers. Millions of bees and monarchs. Now I'll see maybe two monarchs a summer. Bees are far and few between. The Earth will be overrun by what ever species is the most successful. It happens on a small scale all of the time. Birds of prey population varies here based upon food sources etc. But with monarchs it's the overwintering sights. Food sources around are plentiful. Climate change and deforestation has decimated the population. They are considering moving the trees higher in altitude for the monarchs. Crazy times. If people saw the change I have seen or read the amount of data out their they may do something. But not gonna happen. The Earth has changed immensely since it's formation. I've seen it in 75 years. Frogs as well. I could go on but without witnessing it it's hard to understand what was lost and is accelerating.

I would like to see the world come together and start to pay developing countries to replant native trees and learn to live in a forested area as stewards of those areas as a service to the entire planet. Instead of spending money for the lumber/farming goods, we spend money for them to produce clean air.

Same with butterfly areas in Mexico and any other spot important to species.

Then do better with things like cover crops and local food sources to keep fossil fuel inputs low.

My hippy dream would be to somehow get everyone to quit cutting their lawns. Not only is it destroying environments/food sources for plants/animals but it is using gasoline to do it. I just find it so wasteful.

 

[hanimmal]

China steals technology, and denies it when you have the item right in front of them, along with the patent information...how do you propose to enforce any compensation rules when they will lie to your face about how they came up with the exact same tech you did, just a few months (or even weeks) later?
and how do you propose keeping sensitive technology out of the hands of enemies, when China will steal it and sell it to whoever has the cash to buy it?

Bravo, you poked holes in a random thought that I put up online to point out that we can't stop Chinese firms from stealing our tech and it hurts our businesses. The US businesses now are not being compensated I don't think, I haven't looked into this very deeply tbh, but maybe something like a inventor prize grant to help that business start up and produce that item, and when it gets stolen at best the inventor has a leg up on getting the business going before the product was stolen.

 

[TacoMac]

China has been sued by pretty much every major company on earth for copyright and patent violations.

Nobody has ever won.

That's the price of doing business with China and using their slave labor services.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Not gonna happen. Knock yourself out. You see I'm probably a bit older and was raised in Appalachia. I used to hunt quail, pheasant, woodcock etc. for food, not entertainment. You never saw deer. People ate them. No season. Since then in order to hunt quail etc. is on a hunting farm. They raise them and turn them loose. Then city people can shoot them. The reality is whether we like it or not the Earth is changing. I have pictures from 10 years ago of my back field full of wildflowers. Millions of bees and monarchs. Now I'll see maybe two monarchs a summer. Bees are far and few between. The Earth will be overrun by what ever species is the most successful. It happens on a small scale all of the time. Birds of prey population varies here based upon food sources etc. But with monarchs it's the overwintering sights. Food sources around are plentiful. Climate change and deforestation has decimated the population. They are considering moving the trees higher in altitude for the monarchs. Crazy times. If people saw the change I have seen or read the amount of data out their they may do something. But not gonna happen. The Earth has changed immensely since it's formation. I've seen it in 75 years. Frogs as well. I could go on but without witnessing it it's hard to understand what was lost and is accelerating.

when i was a kid living here in Tn, the drone of bees was part of summertime. they were everywhere. this place is on the monarch butterfly migration path, every spring there would literally be thousands of them passing through. now i'm having trouble growing melons because there aren't enough bees to pollinate them...and i get excited when i see a monarch, because you just don't see them anymore....
the national park i live next to is an international biosphere reserve, with species that exist no where else on earth, and some of those species are getting hard to find. i used to see hellbenders all the time down by the creek when i was a kid. i went looking for one the last time i was in the park, and didn't see any...i didn't even see any crawdads, which used to nibble on your toes when you went wading....

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Bravo, you poked holes in a random thought that I put up online to point out that we can't stop Chinese firms from stealing our tech and it hurts our businesses. The US businesses now are not being compensated I don't think, I haven't looked into this very deeply tbh, but maybe something like a inventor prize grant to help that business start up and produce that item, and when it gets stolen at best the inventor has a leg up on getting the business going before the product was stolen.

i'm not trying to be antagonistic, i'm just trying to point out that China doesn't respect ownership rights, and nothing that we do is going to change that. all we can do is try to keep tech out of their hands as long as possible, which is hard when they offer manufacturing services at slave labor rates...small businesses can't afford to not do business with people they know are going to steal from them...that must be very frustrating....

 

[TacoMac]

Georgia is trying to pass a bill to subsidize bee hives.

They're already encouraging anybody who can to set one up.

UGA and Georgia State have free clinics on the how to.

If I weren't allergic, I'd jump all over it. I'm still considering it despite that.

 

[hanimmal]

i'm not trying to be antagonistic, i'm just trying to point out that China doesn't respect ownership rights, and nothing that we do is going to change that. all we can do is try to keep tech out of their hands as long as possible, which is hard when they offer manufacturing services at slave labor rates...small businesses can't afford to not do business with people they know are going to steal from them...that must be very frustrating....

Absolutely, even if they don't manufacture it, they can always just buy it and deconstruct it to figure out what is in it too. Nothing is safe, pretty much any idea can instantly be stolen and manufactured cheaper there, they changed the rules of the game, if we can't change it, I just think it might be better to be better at it than they are.

 

[hanimmal]

Georgia is trying to pass a bill to subsidize bee hives.

They're already encouraging anybody who can to set one up.

UGA and Georgia State have free clinics on the how to.

If I weren't allergic, I'd jump all over it. I'm still considering it despite that.

I worry about my dogs or I would set some up too. I did stop clear cutting about 2.5 acres though and am getting lots of local bees and butterflies, I had a few milkweeds pop up too so am happy when I see some Monarchs floating around, thinking of getting a bee/butterfly mix of seeds for the grassy areas.

 

[TacoMac]

I had a few milkweeds pop up too so am happy when I see some Monarchs floating around

They're pushing that hard here as well - planting milkweed for the monarchs. I had forgotten that until you mentioned it.

 

[abandonconflict]

i'm not trying to be antagonistic, i'm just trying to point out that China doesn't respect ownership rights, and nothing that we do is going to change that. all we can do is try to keep tech out of their hands as long as possible, which is hard when they offer manufacturing services at slave labor rates...small businesses can't afford to not do business with people they know are going to steal from them...that must be very frustrating....

I'll admit I opposed the TPP based on the bullshit saying that it was Orwellian and an over-reaching authoritarian grab. I regret that. It actually would have provided the framework for a semblance of fair trade. Trump opposed it because black man bad and China was ecstatic. It was like sitting at a chess table, knowing you're going to lose against the current player and watching him leave before the game is through, then an idiot sits down in front of you and says, let's reset the board.

 

[hotrodharley]

Absolutely, even if they don't manufacture it, they can always just buy it and deconstruct it to figure out what is in it too. Nothing is safe, pretty much any idea can instantly be stolen and manufactured cheaper there, they changed the rules of the game, if we can't change it, I just think it might be better to be better at it than they are.

“Copying and reverse engineering accelerated new product launches, but eroded China’s competitiveness. Stealing intellectual property has enormously benefited Chinese companies. But, it has crippled their ability to develop the next version or innovate.

Just look at almost every important technological innovation in hardware, software, and the internet. Without sounding arrogant or imperialistic, they are with few exceptions to made in America.”

Again I’ll identify greed as the REASON foreign companies enter China. Reverse engineering has gone on there forever. Yet these money hungry corporations looking for just a few dollars more were obviously willing to subject themselves and their products to what the Chinese do and how they operate. It’s damned sure certain little of this is new nor was it unexpected.

https://www.scmp.com/business/article/1934779/china-never-really-stopped-being-copycat-and-thats-why-its-tech-companies

 

[captainmorgan]

#biden/harris2020

How awesome would that be?

Might want to read this.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/43kg3m/joe-biden-is-coming-for-your-legal-recreational-weed