Easiest medium for new grower

Black Thumb

Well-Known Member
Easy set and go.
Pro mix.
A bag of mixed all natural dry ferts ( manure , kelp, feather, bone meal , etc......) Farmer stores have these.
Mega crop.
Recharge.
Bottle of ph up.

Mix 1/3 cup of your dry ferts per gallon of pro mix
1 teaspoon recharge per gallon of pro mix.

Mix it up plant your clone.
Feed 300 ppm veg feed 600 ppm flower.
ph with RO will be around 5.8 i bring it to 6.3

You're welcome enjoy an easy grow.
 

DustyDuke

Well-Known Member
12-13 years ago I started growing weed indoors I used the flood and drain method, I was pretty successful. I did however have a friend who helped me ALOT!! He had mothers plants and sold me clones and I used to flower strait away as clones were decent. After a decade hiatus from indoor growing. I discovered I sucked at coco and I am finding organic soil my favourite, less maintenance once setup imo. Soil is my advice unless you can get decent clones in bulk and flower straight away, flood and drain that shit and make bank
 

shackleferd

Well-Known Member
Don’t you have to water every day to every other day. Cancel the Vegas weekend.
Big misconception about water vaporization with coir. Coir is not airing out the moisture its the plant thats consuming more water. I can go for a week or longer without watering during the first stage of the plant and once every two days during the height of flower.

When you run coir you replace the same amount of water as you would with DWC in other words exactly what the plant needs.

Coir+ one cup of organic fertlizer+ water= lazy mans grow with big harvest
 
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shackleferd

Well-Known Member
As to whats easiest, gave it some thought and flood and drain hydro is pretty darn hard to screw up.
You still have to dial everything in with meters and etc, with dry organic ferts you measure one time and done for three weeks.
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
And how long to cook this soil mix?
No cook time required actually, whether you use peat or coco! The organic amendments in Clackamas Coots/Cornell University's soil mix are not "hot". Neem, Crab, and Kelp Meals are all very light ingredients that are more than plenty to grow amazing plants of any sort. They aren't "hot" like other organic amendments such as, but not limited to Alfalfa Meal, Blood Meal, Bone Meal, Feather Meal, and pretty much any kind of Guano.

What makes an organic amendment "hot" is essentially how quickly it decomposes. Things like Alfalfa and Blood Meals or Guano will start decomposing pretty much immediately, and at an incredibly rapid rate. A compost pile that decomposes at such a high rate is capable of producing temperatures between 130-160F! If anything in your soil mix is composting at such a rate that it's producing those temps then you'll literally fry your roots. This is why people refer to amendments as "hot" or "that can burn".

Other ingredients decompose at a more slow and gradual pace, and these are the ingredients that won't cause burns/damage of any sort when used.

As you (and others) may or may not know, "cooking" soil is simply letting things decompose.

We "cook" soil for one of two reasons; 1) To deal with ingredients that are "hot" and 2) To build up a microbiology with various fungi and bacteria.

In the recipe I posted, none of the ingredients are hot at all. So you don't need to "cook" the soil for this reason because the ingredients in that recipe are very light and don't decompose at such a quick rate that it's going to produce 140-150 degree temps in your root zone. So this isn't an issue with the soil recipe I posted.

The other main reason people will "cook" a soil is to get the microbiology going, right? Well, it sounds logically enough at first and makes quite a bit of sense to want to cultivate a microbiology before planting anything into said soil. However, the thing to consider is that your compost should already have that amount of microbiology in it already! So if you have to "cook" your soil just to produce a decent microbiology then your compost input was likely garbage tier quality.

I've used this soil mix for the last 5-6 years now and see no reason to use anything else. In the long run, this soil is not only cheaper than everything else you can find, but it also produces the best results. The thing to consider is that it is absolutely imperative that your compost input is of the highest possible quality. Your soil can and will only be as good as the compost in it. It's just like with anything else; crap in, crap out. Quality in, Quality out.

I've never had to cook it, ever. There's no need because the compost I use is the best quality I can source, and I don't use organic amendments that require "cooking".

Unfortunately, not everyone is in a position to make their own compost. If it's a possibility for you in your particular situation, definitely look into it! Making your own compost and/or worm castings will produce the best results. However, if you can't make your compost you do have options but it's gonna cost you unfortunately. Don't buy worm castings unless it's from a worm farm you're personally visiting to pick them up. All the worm castings you find online are pure garbage and a complete waste of money. Look on Craigslist or something to find someone with a farm that is selling excess compost. When I lived in California I had a worm farm right down the street, they'd fill a 5g bucket for me for $15. If you can't find that, look into SunGro's Black Gold Compost, it's ~$7-$8 per cuft but it's not the best quality unfortunately. It's a lot better than most of the stuff on the market, but it's still mediocre. The best option of Coast of Maine's Lobster Compost, but it'll cost you ~$25-$30 per cuft online. Pricey, but well worth the money. You may even be fortunate enough to have a store that supplies it, if you don't have to buy the Lobster Compost online it typically retails for $10-$15 per cuft.

HTH.


I really agree with some of the people on here that are saying DWC is the easiest. That was what I used first and I had zero regrets. That being said, if you're wanting to use soil, rather than mess with Fox Farm Ocean Soil and having to mix stuff up, you could always order their Happy Frog soil mix and use it by itself.

Regarding meters, when I grew via DWC I never once used an EC meter, only a pH pen. I couldn't afford it for the first cycle. After having much success with that, I decided not to get one and really never had any major issues. Sure, there were some spots here and there, nothing drastic. Worried about root rot due to higher res temps? Get some hydroguard.

Why DWC? Because you're new to growing and the number one blunder that any new grower makes, and anyone in here will back me up on this, is that they over-water their girls when growing in soil. Over-watering isn't an issue regarding hydro. And what's the easiest, most noob-friendly way to do a hydro grow? Why, DWC of course.

To be fair, anything you put a lot of research and effort into should get you some good results. Don't be afraid to ask questions, AND REMEMBER: when using nutes, less is more; it's better to underfeed than to overfeed.

Best of luck. :leaf: :peace:
DWC can look intimidating, but I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. Both soil and DWC are simple, yet complex for their own reasons. You're definitely right that people will typically experience better results in hydro then they will in soil for the reasons you described. The main hurdle is that setting up a DWC can seem rather intimidating at first, and it can have a higher start up cost than soil. However, as you said, you will get good results if you take it easy on the nutes and don't love them to death. As you pointed out, watering is something that most of us fuck up even still.

I do believe that soil is capable of producing the best results, however I also believe it's more finicky/tricky to deal with than a DWC or Coco grow. It's very tough to actually fuck up the watering in a DWC/coco grow. Soil though? Too much or too little water at any stage of the grow will produce problems of some sort down the line unfortunately. The main reason people recommend soil is because it's "plug and play" with nothing else required but planting a seed/clone into it. DWC/Coco requires maintenance and nutrient schedules.. but it truly will produce the best results for a novice trying to gain experience. That's why I recommend Coco (I believe some people use Coco even for DWC if I'm not mistaken?), it's totally foolproof and because of this it will allow you to get experience in everything else such as how the plant grows, what deficiencies/problems look like, what kind of growth to expect, and so on and so forth. Once people are armed with this knowledge after having a few grows under their belt, then tackle soil by all means. But in my experience, most failed new grows tend to be soil.
 

Obepawn

Well-Known Member
No cook time required actually, whether you use peat or coco! The organic amendments in Clackamas Coots/Cornell University's soil mix are not "hot". Neem, Crab, and Kelp Meals are all very light ingredients that are more than plenty to grow amazing plants of any sort. They aren't "hot" like other organic amendments such as, but not limited to Alfalfa Meal, Blood Meal, Bone Meal, Feather Meal, and pretty much any kind of Guano.

What makes an organic amendment "hot" is essentially how quickly it decomposes. Things like Alfalfa and Blood Meals or Guano will start decomposing pretty much immediately, and at an incredibly rapid rate. A compost pile that decomposes at such a high rate is capable of producing temperatures between 130-160F! If anything in your soil mix is composting at such a rate that it's producing those temps then you'll literally fry your roots. This is why people refer to amendments as "hot" or "that can burn".

Other ingredients decompose at a more slow and gradual pace, and these are the ingredients that won't cause burns/damage of any sort when used.

As you (and others) may or may not know, "cooking" soil is simply letting things decompose.

We "cook" soil for one of two reasons; 1) To deal with ingredients that are "hot" and 2) To build up a microbiology with various fungi and bacteria.

In the recipe I posted, none of the ingredients are hot at all. So you don't need to "cook" the soil for this reason because the ingredients in that recipe are very light and don't decompose at such a quick rate that it's going to produce 140-150 degree temps in your root zone. So this isn't an issue with the soil recipe I posted.

The other main reason people will "cook" a soil is to get the microbiology going, right? Well, it sounds logically enough at first and makes quite a bit of sense to want to cultivate a microbiology before planting anything into said soil. However, the thing to consider is that your compost should already have that amount of microbiology in it already! So if you have to "cook" your soil just to produce a decent microbiology then your compost input was likely garbage tier quality.

I've used this soil mix for the last 5-6 years now and see no reason to use anything else. In the long run, this soil is not only cheaper than everything else you can find, but it also produces the best results. The thing to consider is that it is absolutely imperative that your compost input is of the highest possible quality. Your soil can and will only be as good as the compost in it. It's just like with anything else; crap in, crap out. Quality in, Quality out.

I've never had to cook it, ever. There's no need because the compost I use is the best quality I can source, and I don't use organic amendments that require "cooking".

Unfortunately, not everyone is in a position to make their own compost. If it's a possibility for you in your particular situation, definitely look into it! Making your own compost and/or worm castings will produce the best results. However, if you can't make your compost you do have options but it's gonna cost you unfortunately. Don't buy worm castings unless it's from a worm farm you're personally visiting to pick them up. All the worm castings you find online are pure garbage and a complete waste of money. Look on Craigslist or something to find someone with a farm that is selling excess compost. When I lived in California I had a worm farm right down the street, they'd fill a 5g bucket for me for $15. If you can't find that, look into SunGro's Black Gold Compost, it's ~$7-$8 per cuft but it's not the best quality unfortunately. It's a lot better than most of the stuff on the market, but it's still mediocre. The best option of Coast of Maine's Lobster Compost, but it'll cost you ~$25-$30 per cuft online. Pricey, but well worth the money. You may even be fortunate enough to have a store that supplies it, if you don't have to buy the Lobster Compost online it typically retails for $10-$15 per cuft.

HTH.




DWC can look intimidating, but I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. Both soil and DWC are simple, yet complex for their own reasons. You're definitely right that people will typically experience better results in hydro then they will in soil for the reasons you described. The main hurdle is that setting up a DWC can seem rather intimidating at first, and it can have a higher start up cost than soil. However, as you said, you will get good results if you take it easy on the nutes and don't love them to death. As you pointed out, watering is something that most of us fuck up even still.

I do believe that soil is capable of producing the best results, however I also believe it's more finicky/tricky to deal with than a DWC or Coco grow. It's very tough to actually fuck up the watering in a DWC/coco grow. Soil though? Too much or too little water at any stage of the grow will produce problems of some sort down the line unfortunately. The main reason people recommend soil is because it's "plug and play" with nothing else required but planting a seed/clone into it. DWC/Coco requires maintenance and nutrient schedules.. but it truly will produce the best results for a novice trying to gain experience. That's why I recommend Coco (I believe some people use Coco even for DWC if I'm not mistaken?), it's totally foolproof and because of this it will allow you to get experience in everything else such as how the plant grows, what deficiencies/problems look like, what kind of growth to expect, and so on and so forth. Once people are armed with this knowledge after having a few grows under their belt, then tackle soil by all means. But in my experience, most failed new grows tend to be soil.
Good info man, thanks a lot.
 

Renfro

Well-Known Member
You still have to dial everything in with meters and etc, with dry organic ferts you measure one time and done for three weeks.
You do need to have proper numbers. This isn't your grandpa's oldsmobile. lol

So what about after 3 weeks? Totally a guessing game with organic.
 

Obepawn

Well-Known Member
No cook time required actually, whether you use peat or coco! The organic amendments in Clackamas Coots/Cornell University's soil mix are not "hot". Neem, Crab, and Kelp Meals are all very light ingredients that are more than plenty to grow amazing plants of any sort. They aren't "hot" like other organic amendments such as, but not limited to Alfalfa Meal, Blood Meal, Bone Meal, Feather Meal, and pretty much any kind of Guano.

What makes an organic amendment "hot" is essentially how quickly it decomposes. Things like Alfalfa and Blood Meals or Guano will start decomposing pretty much immediately, and at an incredibly rapid rate. A compost pile that decomposes at such a high rate is capable of producing temperatures between 130-160F! If anything in your soil mix is composting at such a rate that it's producing those temps then you'll literally fry your roots. This is why people refer to amendments as "hot" or "that can burn".

Other ingredients decompose at a more slow and gradual pace, and these are the ingredients that won't cause burns/damage of any sort when used.

As you (and others) may or may not know, "cooking" soil is simply letting things decompose.

We "cook" soil for one of two reasons; 1) To deal with ingredients that are "hot" and 2) To build up a microbiology with various fungi and bacteria.

In the recipe I posted, none of the ingredients are hot at all. So you don't need to "cook" the soil for this reason because the ingredients in that recipe are very light and don't decompose at such a quick rate that it's going to produce 140-150 degree temps in your root zone. So this isn't an issue with the soil recipe I posted.

The other main reason people will "cook" a soil is to get the microbiology going, right? Well, it sounds logically enough at first and makes quite a bit of sense to want to cultivate a microbiology before planting anything into said soil. However, the thing to consider is that your compost should already have that amount of microbiology in it already! So if you have to "cook" your soil just to produce a decent microbiology then your compost input was likely garbage tier quality.

I've used this soil mix for the last 5-6 years now and see no reason to use anything else. In the long run, this soil is not only cheaper than everything else you can find, but it also produces the best results. The thing to consider is that it is absolutely imperative that your compost input is of the highest possible quality. Your soil can and will only be as good as the compost in it. It's just like with anything else; crap in, crap out. Quality in, Quality out.

I've never had to cook it, ever. There's no need because the compost I use is the best quality I can source, and I don't use organic amendments that require "cooking".

Unfortunately, not everyone is in a position to make their own compost. If it's a possibility for you in your particular situation, definitely look into it! Making your own compost and/or worm castings will produce the best results. However, if you can't make your compost you do have options but it's gonna cost you unfortunately. Don't buy worm castings unless it's from a worm farm you're personally visiting to pick them up. All the worm castings you find online are pure garbage and a complete waste of money. Look on Craigslist or something to find someone with a farm that is selling excess compost. When I lived in California I had a worm farm right down the street, they'd fill a 5g bucket for me for $15. If you can't find that, look into SunGro's Black Gold Compost, it's ~$7-$8 per cuft but it's not the best quality unfortunately. It's a lot better than most of the stuff on the market, but it's still mediocre. The best option of Coast of Maine's Lobster Compost, but it'll cost you ~$25-$30 per cuft online. Pricey, but well worth the money. You may even be fortunate enough to have a store that supplies it, if you don't have to buy the Lobster Compost online it typically retails for $10-$15 per cuft.

HTH.




DWC can look intimidating, but I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. Both soil and DWC are simple, yet complex for their own reasons. You're definitely right that people will typically experience better results in hydro then they will in soil for the reasons you described. The main hurdle is that setting up a DWC can seem rather intimidating at first, and it can have a higher start up cost than soil. However, as you said, you will get good results if you take it easy on the nutes and don't love them to death. As you pointed out, watering is something that most of us fuck up even still.

I do believe that soil is capable of producing the best results, however I also believe it's more finicky/tricky to deal with than a DWC or Coco grow. It's very tough to actually fuck up the watering in a DWC/coco grow. Soil though? Too much or too little water at any stage of the grow will produce problems of some sort down the line unfortunately. The main reason people recommend soil is because it's "plug and play" with nothing else required but planting a seed/clone into it. DWC/Coco requires maintenance and nutrient schedules.. but it truly will produce the best results for a novice trying to gain experience. That's why I recommend Coco (I believe some people use Coco even for DWC if I'm not mistaken?), it's totally foolproof and because of this it will allow you to get experience in everything else such as how the plant grows, what deficiencies/problems look like, what kind of growth to expect, and so on and so forth. Once people are armed with this knowledge after having a few grows under their belt, then tackle soil by all means. But in my experience, most failed new grows tend to be soil.
Does crab meal replace lime since peat is the soil base?
 

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
As to whats easiest, gave it some thought and flood and drain hydro is pretty darn hard to screw up.
it's all getting the nutrients to the plants regardless but flood and drain is just another form where you are dependent on equipment not breaking and screwing it up for you. Drain to waste for the win.
 

Renfro

Well-Known Member
it's all getting the nutrients to the plants regardless but flood and drain is just another form where you are dependent on equipment not breaking and screwing it up for you. Drain to waste for the win.
Well I ran flood and drain for over 7 years and never lost a crop plus I didn't have to do much work. With large reservoirs and RO water I could be gone for a week at a time.

It is all about what works best for the user. I have grown a lot of different ways. Right now top feed in soiless mix DTW. Nothing ever performs as well as hydro. I get more terpene production and larger yields. Can't knock that. Most of the people that complain about hydro either didn't spend the money to get the proper equipment or they just don't know what they are doing.

I just did a run in my tent using flood and drain hydro. Same nutes and strains as I use in top feed soiless. The hydro had more flavor.
 

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
I consider soiless to be hydro and you can't convince me otherwise, if you are delivering nutrient salts with water to your plants its all hydro.
 

shackleferd

Well-Known Member
You do need to have proper numbers. This isn't your grandpa's oldsmobile. lol

So what about after 3 weeks? Totally a guessing game with organic.
Dr earth organic fertilizer has a ratio of 4.4.4 for growth. After growth you top dress with dr earth organic bud and bloom fertilizer ratio 3.9.4. Gia green also has the same ratios for their organic fertz. They are both in powder form. If you are using coco you double the recommended amount per gallon of coco coir. I use one cup per five gallons of coco and top dress after three weeks with half a cup. Mr Canucks instructions


For growth,

https://www.gaiagreen.com/product-page/all-purpose-4-4-4

Or

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079ZPDKPH/?coliid=I23UDJ4MF01VYG&colid=1QOFUN5UI013L&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

For flower;

https://www.gaiagreen.com/product-page/power-bloom-2-8-4

or
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079ZN7CNB/?coliid=I2SXN9ZLUJL40K&colid=1QOFUN5UI013L&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Ingredients in gia green= Basalt rock dust, bone meal, sterilized feather meal, fish bone meal, humic acid, glacial rock dust, greensand, gypsum, insect frass, kelp meal, mined potassium sulphate, mineralized phosphate, rock phosphate.
 
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shackleferd

Well-Known Member
I consider soiless to be hydro and you can't convince me otherwise, if you are delivering nutrient salts with water to your plants its all hydro.
Coir "coco" is soiless, if you are fertilizing with organics you are not adding salts to the medium.
 
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InTheValley

Well-Known Member
here is my Cherry Wine CBD, 65 days from seed, Cocoloco, Have feed just 1 time, with 250PPM megaCrop, PH 6.7 Water with 100PPM of Calmag every other day, RO water every other day, Recharge 1 day per week, 1 Feed of Greenleaf PKBoost, ( 250PPM ) Feed 1 time of Open seaseme, ( 250PPM) All nutes and recharge is served on Mondays only. You can see it is just starting to be over feed, probably from the PK boost last week, but seems to have to much nitrogen, so being in week 5 of flower, dropping calmag, and going with just Mag Sul till flush week. Going to run 10 weeks. using 2 gallon superroot pots, water 48oz a day now or ( 70% dry ) Using 300 watt Luminus cobs, but dimmed to around 220 watts, 500 PAR average, 16 inches off canopy. 30inches diameter, 18 inches tall. By far my best grow now that i dont over feed, lol. Cocoloco, is freakin awesome stuff fellas, cherryWine-day65-tue1.png
cherryWine-day65-tue2.png
cherryWine-day65-tue3.png
cherryWine-day65-tue4.png
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
Does crab meal replace lime since peat is the soil base?
Coot's uses Oyster Shell Flour, but Lime will work just as well and is a lot cheaper.

I don't use either. My well water is so heavily calcified from the limestone out here that simply watering with my well water is enough to keep the pH balanced. I found out the hard way my water is so hard it's pretty much liquid dolomite lime. I had to replace the Crab Meal with 0-5-0, and remove the OSF and gypsum entirely. All of those calcium ingredients combined with my water caused me some serious issues.
 

Obepawn

Well-Known Member
Coot's uses Oyster Shell Flour, but Lime will work just as well and is a lot cheaper.

I don't use either. My well water is so heavily calcified from the limestone out here that simply watering with my well water is enough to keep the pH balanced. I found out the hard way my water is so hard it's pretty much liquid dolomite lime. I had to replace the Crab Meal with 0-5-0, and remove the OSF and gypsum entirely. All of those calcium ingredients combined with my water caused me some serious issues.
Yeah, there was a new grower here a few weeks ago who amended his supersoil with Lime (slow and fast acting) oyster shell flower, gypsum, alfalfa and kelp. All these calcium sources locked out several nutrients during flower, and basically jeopardized his harvest. He was wanting to know what he could do to fix it but I told him there was nothing he could do to remove the excess calcium amendments. People were telling him to add blood meal because his lower leaves were turning yellow. He ended up with yellow clawed leaves, which I’ve never seen before. Me and one other dude correctly diagnosed his problem.
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
Yeah, there was a new grower here a few weeks ago who amended his supersoil with Lime (slow and fast acting) oyster shell flower, gypsum, alfalfa and kelp. All these calcium sources locked out several nutrients during flower, and basically jeopardized his harvest. He was wanting to know what he could do to fix it but I told him there was nothing he could do to remove the excess calcium amendments. People were telling him to add blood meal because his lower leaves were turning yellow. He ended up with yellow clawed leaves, which I’ve never seen before. Me and one other dude correctly diagnosed his problem.
Yeah, pretty much what happened with me because of my water. Tons of phantom deficiencies and other problems because there was a stupid amount of calcium in the soil.

It was the dumbest thing that made me realize it too. I started noticing the same scaling I get on my faucets on the bottoms of every single one of my pots and finally realized what it was. After harvest I just dumped the soil, mixed it up with a new batch (without calcium inputs) and everything is perfect.

Funny how it's always the simple things. For some reason, the water was one of the last things I looked at despite it being completely different from where I lived 5 years ago.
 

Obepawn

Well-Known Member
Yeah, pretty much what happened with me because of my water. Tons of phantom deficiencies and other problems because there was a stupid amount of calcium in the soil.

It was the dumbest thing that made me realize it too. I started noticing the same scaling I get on my faucets on the bottoms of every single one of my pots and finally realized what it was. After harvest I just dumped the soil, mixed it up with a new batch (without calcium inputs) and everything is perfect.

Funny how it's always the simple things. For some reason, the water was one of the last things I looked at despite it being completely different from where I lived 5 years ago.
A life long process, huh.
 

oneyejacks

Well-Known Member
The Fox Farms OF, Miracle Grow MC and Perlite mix worked very well. (post #14 ITT)

I think MG on it's own is shit. Because it has a low PH and is nute filled.

I think Fox Farms OF is excellent because it has great starter and mid nutes and comes with perlite and PH balance.

The two put together with some perlite worked excellently I have to admit. I think the PH with this mix is like 6.2 which is good enough for soil. You can PH up a little but not necessary. No more nutes needed for a grow either, this mix has all you will need.

The Miracle Grow kicks in where you might be somewhat nute light at the end of a Fox Farms alone run.

Go Miracle Grow heavy on the bottom half of soil and go FF heavy on the top half of soil. (remember half your MG mix should be perlite - 1/2 1/4 1/4 - FF, MG, Perlite)

For someone starting out I think you are golden here.

IMG_20190729_170424040.jpg IMG_20190729_170551873.jpg


Plants bigger than any I grew before under same conditions.

disclaimer: I am still amateur
 
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