Gquebed
Well-Known Member
Very impressive.
New to growing and thinking of going DWC? Don't
- Thread starter DaFreak
- Start date
70's natureboy
Well-Known Member
The results are impressive (yummy fur) but the system has too many parts for my liking. I wouldn't mind seeing a thread dedicated to your system to explain it a little more like how to change the res and how much does it hold. I'm not really grasping the whole concept.
smokebros
Well-Known Member
I've seen some pretty spectacular results from growers who went the RDWC route. It's pretty impressive. My advice to any new grower is to start with a grow method that's commensurate to their grow skills. If they've never grown a plant before, RDWC is probably not the best choice.
I'll start with clean up. If you are a serious grower you are going to want to sterilize your equipment and medium. For anybody who doesn't know that means taking off all those sprayers and making sure they are not clogged, washing them, washing inside of the hoses, most people don't bother doing that every grow. Probably washing those containers. When it comes to the hydro balls you got two options, boil them or use something to dump them in to disinfect. You can get away without doing these things for a long time, but if you do one day it is going to bite you in the ass. So we are talking time and money. Where as with drain to waste you are ready again as fast as you can pull the medium from the pot and refill it with new medium. Don't have to clean anything.
Next I will move on to points of failures. Any pump will fail eventually. At least with your setup when it fails there is no real damage because your roots are in a Rez but it will fail eventual. The spray heads snap off all the time when you are cleaning them. Even that PVC Pipe will fail if you do it long enough. Even those net pots have to be replaced. Drain to waste the plastic pot will eventually have to be replaced as well, a decade?
Cost You can tell me how much that one plant system cost. I am guessing $60 to $80. The cost for drain to waste with pro-mix will set you back $8 for pot and medium. Over the years your system will cost less because it's the initial cost that sets you back where as I have to invest $12 every cycle for 4 plants. So if a beginner was to make 4 of your systems I predict it would set them back $120 compared to my $36, after 4 cycles Yours would break even and pull ahead. But again there are many systems out there much more expensive than yours.
Other costs This is not about your system but other dwc etc. Any beginner do a quick search right now in this forum for "water chiller" and "air conditioner" You will find hundreds of people who are trying to keep their water cold as to not get root rot. that's big money for a beginner and a waste of watts.
Root Rot You claim you cannot get root rot in your system. It's certainly hard to get it with sprayers putting that much o2 into the water, I agree. But I guarantee you there are people out there who have got rot in systems like you. I would also ask are you growing in 100c temps? Because many people do and with global warming it's only getting worse. Again, any beginners search for "root rot" and see how many people get it. Thousands and thousands of dollars worth of bud gone because they choose a style with inherent weaknesses. I am sure there is some idiot out there drowning their plants in drain to waste who have got root rot, but that's a special breed of dumb.
Noise makes noise when mine doesn't. Thank god yours doesn't have air-pumps, nothing is more annoying then that noise. But for real, if stealth is a concern drain to waste is as silent as it comes.
Ok so as you say, these things are not hard to learn, if you do it right you will have successful grows but why? Why do all that when you can grow just as much with drain to waste? You look around at all the people who built their own versions or try to improve on various methods and after a while you realize everybody is just playing. It's a fun hobby and playing around is fun, but has nothing to do with growing weed. You just only need a pot and medium. (well nutrients, pH pen, pesticides and all that jive)
It's like comparing a camry to a porcshe, one is cheap and reliable and the other is fast and sexy. But what if the Porsche was actually the same exact speed as the camry. Why the fck would you buy the Porsche? Just because you like it, and that's cool, I respect that. But beginners should hear that's all it is.
Now I am not an awesome grower, I don't invest the time needed to be honest. I mistreat them, ignore them, let shit slide all the time. After 20 years. I also don't veg long, 2 weeks. Obviously I could get more yield with longer veg but I like short veggies because I don't want to do all that training because I am lazy. Still I get about 0.75gpw on average with subpar clones. I know people out there who average 1.5gpw with drain to waste. So Yummy what is your gpw? Why is it worth it to do your style? Are you hitting 2.0?
Another point I want to make to any beginner if any have made it this far in the thread. like 90% (open for debate) of the largest baddest grows the world over are in drain to waste. There are a few stubborn people out there with large NFT/AERO but seriously like 90% are drain to waste. They know, they get it. We have a saying in growing K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid. It's the golden rule.
yummy fur
Well-Known Member
Link below will help. Once the concept is understood then there are endless permutation. The concepts is that the roots are sitting in a large quantity of clay balls, there's 25L of them in this particular tub. This is top fed. When the roots eventually make it to the bottom there are holes where they then enter another environment which is a shallow pool about an inch or two deep and an air gap. Eventually the roots will completely fill the air gap with a springy mass. It's the complete opposite of the DWC where they use a tiny amount of substrate and provide no structure for the roots to express themselves.
https://growdiaries.com/diaries/31812-diy-shallow-water-culture/week/150683
@DaFreak, maybe the link above will answer some of your questions, btw the sprayer was V1.0 that has been eliminated in favour of a larger substrate and a separate Shallow section. And seriously an 8W pump makes as good as no noise.
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yummy fur
Well-Known Member
This sort of stuff reminds me of the GHz clock speed debates. Beginners remember?
yummy fur
Well-Known Member
gpw has no meaning for me. I'm not a commercial grower so I don't have electricity bills in the tens of thousands. A better metric for the small grower if you need one, is grams per square metre, that makes much more sense for the small grower to aim at. I get +600gm per square meter which is pretty good for autos which is all I grow these days.
Here's my older orange bud auto, still probably has a few weeks to go, very impressive but really it's not my preferred bud. I prefer small nuggety buds not clumped together waiting for bud rot and blocking out all the light to the inner buds. Here's a White Widow showing the type of bud I like, I'll be growing more of this even though I'm going to get less yield. The point of my reworking of traditional ideas is to take out all the problems that beginner soil growers have or beginner DWC growers.
My first Viparspectra grow in a 3x2 area using 280W at the wall produced 13 zips so that's about 1.3gpw, is that good? I don't know, I don't care. All I care about is I was pretty happy about that. And you can view the entire grow from the above link, it's the OG Kush.
I prefer the bud type below, too much but rot anxiety in the top cola.
Here's my older orange bud auto, still probably has a few weeks to go, very impressive but really it's not my preferred bud. I prefer small nuggety buds not clumped together waiting for bud rot and blocking out all the light to the inner buds. Here's a White Widow showing the type of bud I like, I'll be growing more of this even though I'm going to get less yield. The point of my reworking of traditional ideas is to take out all the problems that beginner soil growers have or beginner DWC growers.
My first Viparspectra grow in a 3x2 area using 280W at the wall produced 13 zips so that's about 1.3gpw, is that good? I don't know, I don't care. All I care about is I was pretty happy about that. And you can view the entire grow from the above link, it's the OG Kush.
I prefer the bud type below, too much but rot anxiety in the top cola.
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yummy fur
Well-Known Member
Why don't we first acknowledge that we both agree DWC is not the best way to go for a beginner.
My system is easier because you don't have to do anything other than top up the water by pouring into the side. Once a month I change the res by lifting the top two together and placing it on a tray, then I mix up a new nutrient. There is not airstone to worry about, there's nothing to do between monthly tub changes other than top up with water and do whatever plant stuff you need to do.
Also I've taken into account the problem of having a scrog that fixes your plant in place. With this system of using reversible tubs there are four corner places for the wooden dowels that support a lightweight scrog that moves with tub, you can pull it out to work on it and get a proper 360 view. The roots develop so well that cal mag deficiencies are eliminated if you use a quality nute like GH. So basically all the things that beginners trip up on, gone. Almost no work to do on the system.
I prefer the round tubs I use, I just made this as a proof of concept, because my round tubs are modified versions of the Nutrifield Pro Pots, which are very cleverly designed for your own mods. However when people see them they think it's some sort of complex system no matter how much I say they're just tubs. So I basically did the same thing with a normal square tub.
The main point of this system is two fold. 1 a very large clay ball subrate for the roots and 2 a separate shallow pool that the older roots can sit in. So the reservoir for example does not have to be under the top two, they could be siting on a milk crate and drain into an external reservoir, this would be good if you had two of these side by side, then have the elbow drain turned out and both of them drain into a larger 70L res if you like, that does not change the main game which all happens in the top two sections. A larger res can be used like this even for one of you just want to be able to leave it for longer.
As you can see you talk about 'keep it simple' but I actually do keep it simple, rather than talk about it.
Edit: I had to look up a Krusty Bucket, why the need to for that sort of sarcastic comment. I think I'm going to have to block you. bye.
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yummy fur
Well-Known Member
You don't even need to worry about the water temp within reason.
yummy fur
Well-Known Member
That's the wrong way to look at it. The right way is to look at all the problems newbs have and find something that is foolproof, maybe not idiot proof, I mean nothing is. So what are the typical noob problems, apart from being flooded with billions of pages of worthless calculations that are reminiscent of A Beautiful Mind, I've been there.
Newbs have trouble with watering, too much not enough, they usually have a bit of root trouble then they'll come to a forum with an infirmary and a bunch of people will tell them the same bafflegab, it never ends. Usually though most problems are root related, if the roots are not in optimum condition then you could have nute problems that are nothing to do with the nutes. So noobs would like to not have to deal with all this shit and talking heads.
And that's why I've designed something that zaps all these problems. Why, because obviously watering is done. And all the headaches about nutrient deficiencies, real or imagined are not going to happen. Imagine that noobs when you see all the problems in the infirmary, imagine having a super simple system that will guarantee no deficiency problems caused by mysterious forces. Confused about Cal/Mag, have you been frightened about not using it. Forget all that, because that's all included in the nutrients. You don't need silica, you don't need any other additives than what is in a standard 2 or 3 part system like GH. All this stuff is just pointless confusion that some people like to bombard noobs with to impress them but it's all just stuff repeated endlessly.
In fact I'm absolutely amazed that I have not yet found another set up like mine, this goes back 25 years, hundreds of DWC's and they're all the same bucket bullshit.
This is why for the noob the *root structure* is vital because that's the root cause (no pun intended) of most noob probs. This is why you won't have nute worries. I've done the tests, over multiple grows with even three different strains in the same pot, and they're all perfect fine.
Another side benefit of the big substrate plus the shallow pool is that even if the pumped stopped it wouldn't matter the plant would go for days on just what was in the pot, but better than that is the plant gets a variety of nutes. For example it's getting the reservoir pumped into the top but when that stops then the roots that are sitting in the shallow pool will gradually change the nute and pH level in the shallow pool, depending on how long you leave the off cycle. Then when the next cycle comes on the environment changes again.
I don’t see any advantage your system has over dwc other than your claim you can’t get root rot. As far as ease goes, aeroponic, dwc, etc they are all the same difficulty in my opinion.
The reason I bring up krusty buckets is because your system looks very similar and it’s just easy to use a common established name, not trying to be sarcastic, but know I will be a little blunt, your just another grower trying to improve shit that doesn’t even need it. You show a system and then say, well those sprayers aren’t in there anymore. So you got a few cycles in it? If you had done your homework you could have just copied a krusty bucket and called it a day. Nothing wrong with playing around, it you don’t have a clue and are talking about stuff that has already been done.
The reason I bring up krusty buckets is because your system looks very similar and it’s just easy to use a common established name, not trying to be sarcastic, but know I will be a little blunt, your just another grower trying to improve shit that doesn’t even need it. You show a system and then say, well those sprayers aren’t in there anymore. So you got a few cycles in it? If you had done your homework you could have just copied a krusty bucket and called it a day. Nothing wrong with playing around, it you don’t have a clue and are talking about stuff that has already been done.
NrthrnMichigan
Well-Known Member
I cut my teeth over 10 years ago in DWC with 0 (zero) negative issues. Just in the last 18 months I started dtw in 100% coco and guess what? 0 (zero) negative issues. I figure some people can grow and others just need to find a decent cannabis dealer. It's that simple.
pulpoinspace
Well-Known Member
my take:
dwc and most other forms of hydroponics are hobbys. fun as a time sink and for learning new things. its for hobbyists.
if all you want is weed, and you're not really looking for a new hobby, no reason to do hydroponics as soil is less work and the result is the same.
dwc and most other forms of hydroponics are hobbys. fun as a time sink and for learning new things. its for hobbyists.
if all you want is weed, and you're not really looking for a new hobby, no reason to do hydroponics as soil is less work and the result is the same.
Some people live in less than perfect places to grow. I lived in a place where every day for 4 months temps were over 100 and only had 15amps to pay with. There’s a bit of luck involved. Some have awesome water some toxic.
Drain to waste is as easy as soil with the benefits of hydro. You soul people still need to feed your soil etc.