Underdeveloped Flowers — Week 6

0x43d

Member
Hi there, to begin I'm not sure if this is the correct forum to post if not could moderators please move the thread to the correct one please.

My set up is as followed.
  • Cyco Platinum Series Nutrients
  • 2.4m x 2.4m x 2.3m Tent (7.8ft x 7.8ft x 7.5ft)
  • 4x 600W HPS
  • 8" Exhaust with Carbon filter (rated at 688m³/hr or 11.16m³/minute, assume 20% loss from the filter)
  • 2x 6" Intakes at 330m³/hr or 5.5 m³/minute
  • 2x Oscillating fans on opposite corners

The tent volume is 13.25m³.

In a smaller tent, running the same exact setup I was yielding consistently high and without issue, but when going to this tent in particular the issue arose as the volume was larger and I'm trying to dial in the fan and air situation.

Tent maintains 26c (78f) and 70% humidity, water, nutrients etc are all the same for all plants.

Originally I had an 8" exhaust and an 8" intake and I was getting positive air pressure, and that only became worse with the carbon filter attached so I swapped to the two 6" fans to obtain negative air pressure however the past two grows have rendered the same issue.

The fans are at opposing sides of the tent, the intake is at the floor level and the exhaust is at the roof.

Moving into week 5 some of the plants appear to be underdeveloped and this continues to show throughout the grow however the past two grows 2-3 plants were fine and growing normally and 2-3 were not, showing small colas and pistils that weren't sticking out, they were curled in and an off-white colour compared to the healthier plants which had bright white pistils that were poking out all over.

The plants that were fine were in direct path of the intake fan to the exhaust fan, the ones that weren't doing so well were on the perimeter of the tent out of the direct path of the fans and considering they're all in the same environment, receiving the same food, water, light etc I can use process of elimination to lead me to believe the air is the perpetrator.

Since changing to the 2x 6" intakes recently there has been a slight change in the plants that were underdeveloped and they seem to be catching up however I'd like to be certain this repeating issue is over so I'm planning on getting a fan speed controller and dialling back the intake to be just less than the exhaust so that negative pressure in the tent is achieved (since the exhaust is losing efficiency from the filter, slowing the intake is a must to achieve the pressure differential)

I am not certain this is a fix however any input is appreciated! Ideally this tent should be pulling 7LB per grow and its been around the ~4 - 4.5LB mark.

Photos below.


Underdeveloped plant, small colas and pistils are curled in and off-white

GVBSWx1.jpg


Developed plant, in line with the air and has white pistils showing poking out healthy. Photo is old but calyxs have begun to swell and stack where the underdeveloped appears to be behind.
5CRSqVB.jpg

 
Hi there, to begin I'm not sure if this is the correct forum to post if not could moderators please move the thread to the correct one please.

My set up is as followed.
  • Cyco Platinum Series Nutrients
  • 2.4m x 2.4m x 2.3m Tent (7.8ft x 7.8ft x 7.5ft)
  • 4x 600W HPS
  • 8" Exhaust with Carbon filter (rated at 688m³/hr or 11.16m³/minute, assume 20% loss from the filter)
  • 2x 6" Intakes at 330m³/hr or 5.5 m³/minute
  • 2x Oscillating fans on opposite corners

The tent volume is 13.25m³.

In a smaller tent, running the same exact setup I was yielding consistently high and without issue, but when going to this tent in particular the issue arose as the volume was larger and I'm trying to dial in the fan and air situation.

Tent maintains 26c (78f) and 70% humidity, water, nutrients etc are all the same for all plants.

Originally I had an 8" exhaust and an 8" intake and I was getting positive air pressure, and that only became worse with the carbon filter attached so I swapped to the two 6" fans to obtain negative air pressure however the past two grows have rendered the same issue.

The fans are at opposing sides of the tent, the intake is at the floor level and the exhaust is at the roof.

Moving into week 5 some of the plants appear to be underdeveloped and this continues to show throughout the grow however the past two grows 2-3 plants were fine and growing normally and 2-3 were not, showing small colas and pistils that weren't sticking out, they were curled in and an off-white colour compared to the healthier plants which had bright white pistils that were poking out all over.

The plants that were fine were in direct path of the intake fan to the exhaust fan, the ones that weren't doing so well were on the perimeter of the tent out of the direct path of the fans and considering they're all in the same environment, receiving the same food, water, light etc I can use process of elimination to lead me to believe the air is the perpetrator.

Since changing to the 2x 6" intakes recently there has been a slight change in the plants that were underdeveloped and they seem to be catching up however I'd like to be certain this repeating issue is over so I'm planning on getting a fan speed controller and dialling back the intake to be just less than the exhaust so that negative pressure in the tent is achieved (since the exhaust is losing efficiency from the filter, slowing the intake is a must to achieve the pressure differential)

I am not certain this is a fix however any input is appreciated! Ideally this tent should be pulling 7LB per grow and its been around the ~4 - 4.5LB mark.

Photos below.


Underdeveloped plant, small colas and pistils are curled in and off-white

GVBSWx1.jpg


Developed plant, in line with the air and has white pistils showing poking out healthy. Photo is old but calyxs have begun to swell and stack where the underdeveloped appears to be behind.
5CRSqVB.jpg
Are these from seed or are they clones?
 
Too much wind maybe, i can only guess as they look pretty happy :-)
No sign of wind burn or anything of the sort. We're talking underdeveloped flowers that aren't stacking calyxes, turrets or flowering as much as their counterparts. Even the same strain are developing different, and considering they're clones theres no chance of pheno etc. being the culprit.
 
No sign of wind burn or anything of the sort. We're talking underdeveloped flowers that aren't stacking calyxes, turrets or flowering as much as their counterparts. Even the same strain are developing different, and considering they're clones theres no chance of pheno etc. being the culprit.

Well i didnt see much obvious stress just like you, genetic variation maybe - a lot can be gleaned from the final product to i would imagine. Sorry i cant offer much :-)
 
Well i didnt see much obvious stress just like you, genetic variation maybe - a lot can be gleaned from the final product to i would imagine. Sorry i cant offer much :-)
They're clones of plants that I know can produce 7LB in this setup so thats out. The final product is impeccable just the yield is off.
 
They're clones of plants that I know can produce 7LB in this setup so thats out. The final product is impeccable just the yield is off.

You say the ones getting the most air are the best, slight overwatering or even just at crucial points or point in bud formation.

Its a stretch to imagine a scenario where more air flow aleviates overwatering by increasing transpiration.

Minor things i could only work out with time and reading them. Again not much just cant see an error glaring at me :-)
 
You say the ones getting the most air are the best, slight overwatering or even just at crucial points or point in bud formation.

Its a stretch to imagine a scenario where more air flow aleviates overwatering by increasing transpiration.

Minor things i could only work out with time and reading them. Again not much just cant see an error glaring at me :-)
I forgot to mention I'm in Coco and have never had problems overwatering. 30% of the volume of the container and getting correct run off with correct ppm readings.

I'll look into it anyways, thank you for the assistance regardless as I've spoken to some mutual growers that can't figure it out either.
 
Maybe a combination of light distribution and co2 inconsistency since the only difference is the tent. In addition to a co2 meter a lux meter can be used to check it and make adjustments as needed. Pics look good
 
Maybe a combination of light distribution and co2 inconsistency since the only difference is the tent. In addition to a co2 meter a lux meter can be used to check it and make adjustments as needed. Pics look good

I can rule out light distribution. CO2 via the fans seems to be the issue. I am achieving negative pressure but it appears the intake fans are underpowered, I plan to reinstall my 8" intake and slow it down to match the exhaust and see what happens. I think thats the key here but I am happy for anyone to give their opinion!

Thanks for the input!
 
Strangely I expected the opposite, plants near the intake suffer due to wilder root temp swings.

Some food for thought. Have the intake fan at roof height rather than on the floor, but on the opposite side to the out take. Use a single oscillating fan pointing slightly up, on level with canopy.

I get the feeling using two oscillating fans is creating hot/cold pockets. If you do as described above, you have a kind of jet stream at the top of the tent thnx to in-take elevation. The oscillating fan will drag up air from root zone and circulate it into the jet stream. That air has to be replaced by sucking air on the other side of the jet stream under the canopy. If the room must have a second osc fan I'd personally put both fans on the same side to maintain that over all root zone to canopy circulation.

Air circulation may not be the problem, but by the sound of issue locations it does make sense that it's something environmental, possibly light intensity?. Were all the plants same cutting, healthy as each other on flip?.

sorry just seen your last post on co2, it might well be circulation then. It would explain the opposite issue from in-take root temp swings.
 
tents got a lot of wasted space by the looks to, have u changed ur veg'ing timelines?

What strain are u running and by who? They look damn nice BTW.
 
Strangely I expected the opposite, plants near the intake suffer due to wilder root temp swings.

Some food for thought. Have the intake fan at roof height rather than on the floor, but on the opposite side to the out take. Use a single oscillating fan pointing slightly up, on level with canopy.

I get the feeling using two oscillating fans is creating hot/cold pockets. If you do as described above, you have a kind of jet stream at the top of the tent thnx to in-take elevation. The oscillating fan will drag up air from root zone and circulate it into the jet stream. That air has to be replaced by sucking air on the other side of the jet stream under the canopy. If the room must have a second osc fan I'd personally put both fans on the same side to maintain that over all root zone to canopy circulation.

Air circulation may not be the problem, but by the sound of issue locations it does make sense that it's something environmental, possibly light intensity?. Were all the plants same cutting, healthy as each other on flip?.

sorry just seen your last post on co2, it might well be circulation then. It would explain the opposite issue from in-take root temp swings.

I did read this somewhere else about the air except they described it different. I had taken one fan out and had the fan doing exactly as you described to try to move the air more but it doesn't seem to have made much, if any difference. but I will keep it in mind.

Lights are fine also, I've used POE to basically say it's at least (something) to do with the air for sure.

Thanks for the input though I do appreciate it!
 
tents got a lot of wasted space by the looks to, have u changed ur veg'ing timelines?

What strain are u running and by who? They look damn nice BTW.
This time it does however I usually have every last bit of the tent full with canopy from 4 plants. I can fit as much as 7 in there but I prefer to run 4 plants and get each canopy to cover the entire space of the tent!

Northern Lights, Girl Scout Cookie and Gold Leaf by Bergman. They've served well and the Gold Leaf has impressive shaped heads as seen below in the image. Girl Scout Cookies in particular the Platinum Cookies pheno is very very impressive. Taste, Smell, Bud formation and even the look of it is impressive. Northern Lights is as always, robust big yielder.

DSC-0042-developed.jpg

(ibb.co/LYdWrGd)
 
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