Cali High-Cap Magazine Ban Unconstitutional

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Nah. Gun laws work fine in countries where plenty of people own guns for legitimate reasons. Your "the horse has left the barn" argument is baseless and proven wrong by what happened in Australia not too long ago.
I do think honestly you have passed the point of no return. The whole mind set is different when it comes to gun rights I fear. For the most part Canadians want to maintain gun ownership for other things than using them against each other (hunting, sport shooting). The mind set there is “I need them to protect myself” from murading herds of rapists and in the case of $2000+, I can only assume zombie apocalypse
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I do think honestly you have passed the point of no return. The whole mind set is different when it comes to gun rights I fear. For the most part Canadians want to maintain gun ownership for other things than using them against each other (hunting, sport shooting). The mind set there is “I need them to protect myself” from murading herds of rapists and in the case of $2000+, I can only assume zombie apocalypse
The argument goes this way: "Too many guns already so why stop it now? Nothing can be done." Well, yes, plenty can be done. All that argument says it's that we have our work cut out for us.

65% of all households in the US do not own a gun. The mind set you describe is that held by a minority of people and is not even shared by the 35% who do own guns. There is plenty of opportunity to reduce gun homicides in the US and that cynical "horse has left the barn" argument is really just about a bump in the road. Coined by that Russian lobby, the NRA.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
The argument goes this way: "Too many guns already so why stop it now? Nothing can be done." Well, yes, plenty can be done. All that argument says it's that we have our work cut out for us.

65% of all households in the US do not own a gun. The mind set you describe is that held by a minority of people and is not even shared by the 35% who do own guns. There is plenty of opportunity to reduce gun homicides in the US and that cynical "horse has left the barn" argument is really just about a bump in the road. Coined by that Russian lobby, the NRA.
I get that point of view and I was also going to mention the fact that the most powerful lobby group is backed by Russia, how ironic. But there are around 400 million guns in the US, so yes I do believe that the horse has left the barn so to speak, I’m not saying better, more sensible laws wouldn’t help, of course they would, what I’m saying is I don’t believe it will be allowed to happen.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
The argument goes this way: "Too many guns already so why stop it now? Nothing can be done." Well, yes, plenty can be done. All that argument says it's that we have our work cut out for us.

65% of all households in the US do not own a gun. The mind set you describe is that held by a minority of people and is not even shared by the 35% who do own guns. There is plenty of opportunity to reduce gun homicides in the US and that cynical "horse has left the barn" argument is really just about a bump in the road. Coined by that Russian lobby, the NRA.
What do you think would be a good starting point in lessening the impact guns have in the states? I’m also trying to understand your correlation with Australia re their regulations? The high capacity mag law is I think a start but just a small start as it only takes a second to flip a clip. Canada is trying to limit the amount of handguns entering the black market from theft of legitimately owned handguns by banning them all, what are your thoughts on that approach?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
What do you think would be a good starting point in lessening the impact guns have in the states? I’m also trying to understand your correlation with Australia re their regulations? The high capacity mag law is I think a start but just a small start as it only takes a second to flip a clip. Canada is trying to limit the amount of handguns entering the black market from theft of legitimately owned handguns by banning them all, what are your thoughts on that approach?
The high capacity law in California, in my opinion was a political knee-jerk reaction and not much about any real effort at regulating guns. What CAN be done in the short term is study the problem looking for solutions that aren't draconian "takes yer gunz away" laws. The Republicans and Russia's NRA have been squelching the NIH from even studying the problem, leaving the matter up to fascist goons in law enforcement to decide what to do.

So, let's get started funding research into a system of knowledge-based recommendations to put into the hands of lawmakers that have validity and thought put into them.

Without waiting for that, there are common sense actions that could be taken such as:

Tighten and fund gun background checks that give time and resources to do an adequate check on EVERY gun sale.
Require guns be kept in locked safes with ammunition stored somewhere else.
Require all new guns be registered before delivery to a registered owner who is by law responsible for damages by that weapon even if it is stolen.
New guns to be restricted in capacity and any modifications to that gun to accept high volume magazines will be considered a serious offense.

Gun nuts react to such a list by saying the cops will be breaking down doors to do gun inspections. That's not necessary but if a gun hurts somebody, the gun owner had better be able to prove it was stored according to regulations and show how the safe was broken into. This is just a suggestion of what I think could be done. As I said earlier, I'd like to see the US use Canada's system as a model for our own.

I understood that Canada was limiting hand guns by making them very hard to justify purchasing and transporting them. I think that if a gun is stolen, the owner had better be able to show he had it stored properly or be liable for damages if that gun hurts somebody. I don't have a problem with stiffer regulations on hand guns but think that mindlessly banning them isn't necessary. I do think that the stakeholders in the gun industry including gun owners should pay for enforcement of these laws. Maybe not all but a large portion through taxes, registration fees and, perhaps, pay for a form of insurance that settles damages when people are harmed by guns.
 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I’m also trying to understand your correlation with Australia re their regulations?
This from Wikipedia
Australia had mandatory buyback programs in 1996 and 2003. Both programs were temporary and involved compensation paid to owners of firearms made illegal by gun law changes and surrendered to the government. Bought back firearms were destroyed.

The 1996 "National Firearms Buyback Program" took 660,959 firearms out of private hands[1] comprising long guns, mostly semi-automatic rimfire rifles and shotguns as well as pump-action shotguns, and a smaller proportion of higher powered or military type semi-automatic rifles. Because the Australian Constitution requires the Commonwealth to pay "just compensation" for private property it takes over, the Government increased the Medicare levy from 1.5% to 1.7% of income for one year to finance the buyback program. The buyback was expected to cost $500 million.[2] The payments from the Commonwealth were conditional on the States and Territories introducing firearms laws and regulations consistent with the National Firearms Agreement.

In 2003 new handgun laws made illegal target pistols of greater than .38 calibre and handguns with barrels less than 120mm (semi-automatic) or 100mm (revolvers) such as pocket pistols. With an exception for persons participating in International Shooting Sport Federation events, which count as Olympic and Commonwealth Games qualifiers, to access highly specialised target pistols which fail to meet the new barrel restrictions. The Coalition of Australian Governments agreed to this restricted use on the grounds that these highly specialised target pistols are large, visually distinctive and not readily concealable due to their overall size.[3]

In 2017, Australia had a national firearms amnesty, the first since 1996, in which individuals could surrender illegal firearms for destruction.[4]
 

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
yeah but what does the NRA have to do with Russia?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/01/nra-russia-investigations-gun-lobby

The NRA has been in bed with Russia for years. They're presently under investigation for money laundering and are near bankruptcy.

In 2016 midterm elections, the NRA spent 60 million dollars on GOP candidates.

In 2018 that fell to just under 4 millon.

They've also laid off people and shut down offices since Butina's arrest and several high ranking officers have been fired for their affiliation and frequent trips to Russia.

The NRA is about as dirty and corrupt as it gets.

But do continue singing their praises when you "don't follow" news about them.
 
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