The Greatest Show On Earth Presents The 16oz Party Cup Grow Off

Big Green Thumb said:
Weekly update: my three plants are finally growing a bit so there is hope. I don't get how some of you guys' plants are already well into flowering. None of mine are even showing sex yet. My number 3 plant is the best performer still but the other 2 are doing okay.
Strain: Gunslinger
Breeder: GPS
Nutes: Jacks 321 (slightly modified to add more Ca and Mg) feeding twice daily most days at around 1050 ppm
Lights: super rare and very expensive Birdcage light from Master BGT
Grow Media: coco + perlite at 1:1 or so.

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Looks great!

Mine just showed sex today and barely lol but I just chose the one I had a feeling about lol
 
whytewidow said:
And roughly 35% of the heat put out by a 1khps is wasted. Bc its withdrawn from the grow area. Not all of it. But alot of it. How many people you know running 1khps isnt either extracting the heat bc its too much. Or cooling it with ac to get temps down. Which in turn is heat not used, and wasted electricity. Nobody runs a 1khps and the temp be right spot on. Without some type of either cooling or extraction. Which is essentially wasted. How can you say any heat extracted out to the atmosphere isnt unused heat and isnt wasted. That makes no sense. Or if you have to cool the ambient air temp with ac. The heated air you are cooling has already used electricity to produce it. And now your using more electricity to cool it. After it's already been heated up. Is wasting. Either way you look at it. That's the samething as saying I'll sell you this dollar for 1.50 you wasted 50 cents bc it's still only worth a dollar.

Edit: my point is led will outgrow hps. Plain n simple. It takes less energy to produce the same results or better.
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Hello-hello! I'm not saying hps is better, I would never do that!! I suggest you read it again!
I say, heat is not just wasted energy!
HPS produces too much of it but with 1000w in a 5x5' tent you only need a 6-8" exaust to maintain the temperature at 25-26°C. AC only in midsummer but that's not what I wanted to say.

What I wanted to say is, heat is needed for the plant to grow and at only 15°C and 1500μmol/s you will not get good growth. A certain amount of heat is still needed also with LED.
HPS produce much of it and produce it directly. LED's have a cold light without the 25% infra-red of hps and the heat inside a tent is created by reflection/conversion cause light gets converted into heat when it hits a surface. For this reason also LED light feels warm even if its not so warm like HPS or sun light.
The whole calmag issues is because of the missing infra-red radiation because plants use heat radiation to regulate certain processes like transpiration. Plants in sun light can withstand 2000μMol/s and +40°C without getting damaged because they would simply reduce transpiration and close the stomata. Far/infra--red has also signalling effects and without a certain amount of heat plants would get issues.

For this reason we have to increase ambient temps with LED to get the leaf temps in the desired range so the plant can regulate the processes successfully. But higher ambient temps cause a high VPD and a higher humidity is needed to get no nutrient imbalance.

When you grow on an open space with no reflective walls its much more difficult to get the desired 28-30°C ambient temps with LED. In a siutable tent much more light gets reflected and therefor its easier to maintain the desired temps.
I know some who for example still use HPS in the coldest winter month because their basement or garages simply stays too cold for LED's.

I've no interest teasing you, bro! I only say, plants need light AND heat to really grow fast.
 
whytewidow said:
There is better growth with leds than hps with the same intensity. I run side by 400watt hps in one 32x32 tent. And my first light build of Samsung f562b strips in 3000k. That not only did the 400hps put out about 530 on the par meter at 18" so I dimmed down my light to 526 was as close as i could get it. Same exact tent. Same strain. Flipped both at 7 nodes. The led tent yield almost 31 grams more. And had visible trich increases that you could tell by looking at it. The plant also got bigger with more flower sites than under hps. Close node spacing as well creating bigger colas. Both in 3gal smartpots with promix hp and perlite. I only built one light to try before I switched everything over. There are 1000s of people switching to led. Bc its better. On almost every front. The biggest downfall is living where theres seasons. Winter time is cold here. Do occasionally heaters have to be used in my case. Theres 100s of YouTube videos showing how led is better. And whatnot. I'm not getting into the led vs. Hps convo on here. Theres 200 thread page on here with people arguing about it. I got better results with switching to led. I upped my yield and trich production, lowered my cost per run, lowered my electric bill.

As I said before those of you still running hps that's fine. It doesnt bother me. Eventually you'll come to the dark side. And you'll nvr go back.

Edit: I have replaced 4 tents worth of hps myself. As well as built over 22 lights for other people who switched out from hps. And have loved the results. Not one person I've built a light for has had one bad thing to say about going to leds.
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530μMol/s from hps and 530μMol/s from LED is not the same. As Steven mentioned, we have to calculate YPF numbers to see the difference.
3k F-strips for instance create 2,15 usable μMol/s/ watt, the hps spectrum is probable less than 2,0μMol/w usable light because most of its light is in the yellow organge range and drives photosynthesis not as good like the LED spectrum.
LM561c numbers.png
YPF performance is much better with white LED spectrum!

With strips you also get better distribution and penetration so the plants can grow taller and the lower buds still get more light.
Maybe two 250w bulbs would perform the same like 400w 3k strips.
 
Randomblame said:
530μMol/s from hps and 530μMol/s from LED is not the same. As Steven mentioned, we have to calculate YPF numbers to see the difference.
3k F-strips for instance create 2,15 usable μMol/s/ watt, the hps spectrum is probable less than 2,0μMol/w usable light because most of its light is in the yellow organge range and drives photosynthesis not as good like the LED spectrum.
View attachment 4293777
YPF performance is much better with white LED spectrum!

With strips you also get better distribution and penetration so the plants can grow taller and the lower buds still get more light.
Maybe two 250w bulbs would perform the same like 400w 3k strips.
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Yeah and that was exactly my point. @OneHitDone said setting both at the same there shouldnt be a difference and there is. The leds out grow hps. And that's jus the facts. I wouldnt have changed all my areas over for less and not as good product.
 
Randomblame said:
530μMol/s from hps and 530μMol/s from LED is not the same. As Steven mentioned, we have to calculate YPF numbers to see the difference.
3k F-strips for instance create 2,15 usable μMol/s/ watt, the hps spectrum is probable less than 2,0μMol/w usable light because most of its light is in the yellow organge range and drives photosynthesis not as good like the LED spectrum.
View attachment 4293777
YPF performance is much better with white LED spectrum!

With strips you also get better distribution and penetration so the plants can grow taller and the lower buds still get more light.
Maybe two 250w bulbs would perform the same like 400w 3k strips.
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I not sure what μMol/w for 400w hps is but I do know 250w hps is less than 1. It comes in at 0.9μMol.
 
CanadianDank said:
Thanks man. The more I think about it the more sense it makes I guess.
The most logical explanation would probably come down to more even light distribution with LEDs vs hps.
I don't have the experience to make a judgement based off my own experiences, but like anything else a lot of it comes down to your specific situation and resource concerns. Whether that's upfront costs, long term savings, heat, space or otherwise.
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Yeah theres several variables of course. If I got better results with hps I wouldve built the one light and put it in the closet. And threw my 600hps back in. And been done. But that wasnt the case. 4 years ago my results probably wouldve been different. Bc leds just werent there yet. But HLG, Samsung, and Bridgelux have found the said magic unicorn photon. Lol. Theres 100s of side by sides of led vs hps. I've yet to find a legit grow that hps won over today's leds. Yes the leds upfront costs are higher. But they more than pay for themselves very quickly. With running all hps in 4 areas. With multiple extraction fans, A.C. running nonstop during lights on cycle. I was paying over 540 bucks a month in just electric. Sometimes more during summer months. Bc I had to crank the ac up to max. But I was averaging about 540ish. Just under 6500 bucks a year. After switching everything over. Removing 2 big ac units, cutting down to two small 10" dollar store fans. One for blowing on the back of my light. Set on 2 out of 4 speed. And one blowing across my plants. I'm averaging almost 20% more product per harvest, as well as better product. And my electric bill monthly average went from 540ish to 277ish average. It's really a no brainer. But also people going from hps to led may not those exact results right outta the gate. Bc it's a completely different world growing under midpower leds than it is hps. And alot have problems. Which basically comes down to them not changing their nutrient regimen. Thinking they can stay with what they were doing. And you cant. You have redial it all back in. But once you're there. It's a breeze.
 
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OneHitDone said:
Maybe @Stephenj37826 can chime in on this. It is the exact reason I keep challenging him to join in on the lettuce thread and I have a pretty good hunch why he keeps dodging.
Only takes a few minutes on lunch break to set that up in the corner of the office.
I'm not trying to bust your balls bro, I genuinely want to figure this out. Who doesn't want to save power?
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I suspect his office is too warm for lettuce. Comfortable for lettuce = cold for humans.
Environment would be the first thing to establish and because lettuce is so cheap it does not make fiscal sense to put the effort in, yet. One day the demand for food will exceed our capacity to create it, on this day people will prioritize cheap local food production.
 
SSGrower said:
I suspect his office is too warm for lettuce. Comfortable for lettuce = cold for humans.
Environment would be the first thing to establish and because lettuce is so cheap it does not make fiscal sense to put the effort in, yet. One day the demand for food will exceed our capacity to create it, on this day people will prioritize cheap local food production.
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I've thought about trying to grow some carrots, wild onions, and tomatoes in my tents this winter. But I just cant seem to stop throwing another plant back in a spot that was jus harvested. Long enough to get vegetables going lol.
 
SSGrower said:
I suspect his office is too warm for lettuce. Comfortable for lettuce = cold for humans.
Environment would be the first thing to establish and because lettuce is so cheap it does not make fiscal sense to put the effort in, yet. One day the demand for food will exceed our capacity to create it, on this day people will prioritize cheap local food production.
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o_O
Have you ever grown lettuce? It is a greenhouse crop and there are even "heat tolerant" bolt resistant varieties.
Plus, led should have the automatic advantage if his office is "too hot" shouldn't it?
 
OneHitDone said:
o_O
Have you ever grown lettuce? It is a greenhouse crop and there are even "heat tolerant" bolt resistant varieties.
Plus, led should have the automatic advantage if his office is "too hot" shouldn't it?
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I am actually trying my hand at some veggies: ghost peppers, jalapenos, scorpion peppers, two types of lettuce, tomatoes, green onion, and cucumbers. I am growing them in the lower parts of my veg area for now, but may move them into my flower tent as they get bigger. The veggies are as of now getting the same Jacks 321 as my more value or plants.
 
OneHitDone said:
:lol:
No problem brother - I would encourage you to try it again and see if you can get a good result and share your results and any other feedback in my thread :hump:
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I can do spinach ok, have tried romaine - taste bitter tissue paper texture. Chard is ok too. Bayby head - big fail burnt edges, head formed too tight ? IDK did not mature to where I even wanted to try any.

My approach at this point is to see if I can get anything good from outdoors, then reverse engineer to work inside. I need to have something to compare to.
 
Kushash said:
I put the list together with info on lights etc.
I'll double check it before posting.

2 players missed the update.

@needsomebeans has not been on the sight since last week and also missed the update in the mystery meat comp. Hopefully all is well.

@CoB_nUt also missed from what I can tell.

Everyone else posted.
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I thought you could miss one cupdate without being automaticly called out. I forgot the exact term you guys have used for it but is there no exception rule?
 
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