Should I be using Coco specific nutrients?

J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
I've got 12 plants going in 5 gallon hempy buckets with Home Depot brand "Black Magic" coco / perlite mix. 4 are clones which are larger than the other 8 I grew from seed. I rinsed the coco thoroughly and then charged in a light nutrient solution and the suggested cal / mag. I only did a single charge though. I have seen it suggested that you do 2 charges. I'm not sure if it matters or not, but I thought it worth mentioning.

The bottom 5 inches of each hempy bucket has been filled with rinsed and PH buffered lava rock to ensure good drainage and happy roots. I'm also using the black magic line of fertilizer which is your standard A, B, and cal-mag supplement. I also picked up their "All purpose suppplement" which is essentially floralicious plus. Black magic is owned by Hawthorne which owns General Hydroponics (and many other brands). Home depot had the shit on clearance and I scored the whole line for next to nothing.

The bottle says to water with cal/mag @ 1-1.5 tsp/gallon for the first 2 weeks. I did not do this. After about 2 weeks the clones began showing severe (at least it's severe to me) magnesium deficiency. Chlorosis between the veins and leaf curl (taco effect). Also, the clones began experiencing some slight twisting in the new growth. Only a couple of random leaves did the taco thing. Shortly thereafter the seedlings began experiencing twisted growth. I immediately watered in a fresh batch of fertilizer @ 25% strength with a full 1tsp/gallon dose of cal/mag. I also foliar sprayed with 4tbsp/gallon of epsom salt. The damage appeared to cease, but I still see some ever so slight twisting of new growth. I know what healthy new growth looks like and when a problem is beginning to show itself. I want to stop this before it gets out of hand. If you have major problems in veg, you might as well not even bother flowering and scrap it.

This is my first time growing in coco and so far I'm not digging it. Perlite never caused me any issues in my hempy buckets and coco seems to have introduced issues I've never experienced before. In all fairness I failed to follow the cal/mag directions, so perhaps I fucked myself and this is just operator error at it's finest.

I'm considering simply switching to General Hydroponic's Cocotek specifically designed for coco or maybe even Canna's line. Is coco really this finicky that you have to buy fertilizer designed specifically for that medium? I just did a thorough flush and watered with 25% strength fertilizer and the full dose of cal/mag @ 1.5tsp/gallon. If I see positive results then problem solved. If not, the mystery issue continues. If I don't get this completely corrected then my plan is to take clones from my 4 gorilla glue clones and scrap the 8 seedlings. I'll then start a new round of hempy in perlite and say good riddance to coco forever. But, I'm not there yet. I want to figure this out.

Here are some pics to show the issues I'm having.
 

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curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
jonnynobody said:
more pics
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What is your pH, lighting and temps.

So far it looks to me like some bottom leaves with splash burn and not enough light penetrating through to them, possibly a little to much heat and an extremely minor Mg deficiency.

I run my pH around 5.8 in coco and not over 6.0. I never bother to pre-charge or rinse my coco since I use Canna Coco and it saves me that step so I can't comment. I water my coco pretty much daily unless it's soggy.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
curious2garden said:
What is your pH, lighting and temps.

So far it looks to me like some bottom leaves with splash burn and not enough light penetrating through to them, possibly a little to much heat and an extremely minor Mg deficiency.

I run my pH around 5.8 in coco and not over 6.0. I never bother to pre-charge or rinse my coco since I use Canna Coco and it saves me that step so I can't comment. I water my coco pretty much daily unless it's soggy.
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PH 5.8-6.0
Temps 71 @ night 74-78 during lights on. 2 x 250w 8 bulb high output t-5's. Light, ph, and temp are in check. My friend said he doesn't rinse his coco or charge either. I'm hoping to see improvement in the morning. I'm about a cunt hair away from ordering Jack's 3-2-1 fertilizer. A lot of people are having great success with it and a 25lb bag is only $55.00. I already have the Epsom salt and I can get 5 LBS of calcium nitrate for $15. For $70 total I can just switch to jack's and the fertilizer should last me 10+ years easy. Canna brand nutes are extremely expensive as are GH's cocotek line.

I'm kinda torn between Jack's and Canna at the moment. When my tax return hits I'll probably order the Jack's. It's a complete professional fertilizer. Shit I hope my girls look better in the morning. BTW, you made me feel a little better when you didn't tell me they looked like shit :) Thanks for that.....I'm pretty hard on myself when things don't go right in the grow room.
 
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curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
jonnynobody said:
PH 5.8-6.0
Temps 71 @ night 74-78 during lights on. 2 x 250w 8 bulb high output t-5's. Light, ph, and temp are in check. My friend said he doesn't rinse his coco or charge either. I'm hoping to see improvement in the morning. I'm about a cunt hair away from ordering Jack's 3-2-1 fertilizer. A lot of people are having great success with it and a 25lb bag is only $55.00. I already have the Epsom salt and I can get 5 LBS of calcium nitrate for $15. For $70 total I can just switch to jack's and the fertilizer should last me 10+ years easy. Canna brand nutes are extremely expensive as are GH's cocotek line.

I'm kinda torn between Jack's and Canna at the moment. When my tax return hits I'll probably order the Jack's. It's a complete professional fertilizer. Shit I hope my girls look better in the morning. BTW, you made me feel a little better when you didn't tell me they looked like shit :) Thanks for that.....I'm pretty hard on myself when things don't go right in the grow room.
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I use GH Flora three part and it works perfectly for me. Coco is relatively inert and there's no magic, use whatever fertilizer you prefer. Do you have a fan on them? Honestly your plants look fine to me.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
curious2garden said:
I use GH Flora three part and it works perfectly for me. Coco is relatively inert and there's no magic, use whatever fertilizer you prefer. Do you have a fan on them? Honestly your plants look fine to me.
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Maybe I'm freaking out for nothing. I do have 1 fan on them, but I will add another just to make sure I've got good circulation. I used the GH 3 part + floralicious plus for 6 or 7 previous grows that were all successful. The 3 part flora trio is a very solid and affordable regimen.
 
myke

myke

Well-Known Member
Maybe your nutes are good and its your watering techniques?
Coco is hydro.Water flush,water flush repeat.
You can jack up the ppms as long as you flush with every feed.Having a drain system to collect 5 or more gallons of run off is super handy.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
myke said:
Maybe your nutes are good and its your watering techniques?
Coco is hydro.Water flush,water flush repeat.
You can jack up the ppms as long as you flush with every feed.Having a drain system to collect 5 or more gallons of run off is super handy.
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I believe you may have hit the sweet spot. I haven't done hempy buckets in a few years and I completely forgot how important the weekly flush is to rinse away accumulated salts. My feed PPM is typically never higher than 600 but my runoff was hitting 1100 PPM. I flushed them all with water until runoff was around 500. After that I watered in 25% strength fertilizer with a full recommended dose of cal/mag which clocked in around 600 PPM. Tomorrow morning should show good results. I'll be doing a flush on all 12 pots every week now. Jeez I forgot how much work it all is. I think I will only deal with 4 at a time in the flower room from now on. 12 is just too much work when you throw in a full time job, house upkeep, and a wife.
 
myke

myke

Well-Known Member
flush every watering a little then it doesnt build up.if ya dont then a big flush every 4th.
 
J

Joe.Grow

Well-Known Member
I’ve found this general hydro recipe on the web and it’s been working great for me. I tried soil and it’s not worth the hassle. With coco and this recipe you are guaranteed results as long as you keep temps around 75 and 45rh.

I believe the mix is from growpotcheaply.

Ph 5.8-6.2 and water 2-3 times a day about 4 cups per plant.

I do 5 gallons at a time and write in a sharpie on each nutrient bottle how many ML I need. Ph isn’t a guess after a while, don’t even need a pen most days.


2C0CB5BC-D8D4-4E13-9F4F-F20C8F4972F2.jpeg
 
gr865

gr865

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
check out H3AD's formula for coco. 6ml micro, 9ml bloom, 1gr epsom per gallon.
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At the rates he posted he will get burning for sure!
I have my apprentice growing 8 Cheese using < 2 ml micro and 3 ml bloom with .75 grams Epsom and .75 ml Cali/Magic. I used this when I was in Hempy Buckets. He is in multiple feeds coco. He has had great success.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
gr865 said:
At the rates he posted he will get burning for sure!
I have my apprentice growing 8 Cheese using < 2 ml micro and 3 ml bloom with .75 grams Epsom and .75 ml Cali/Magic. I used this when I was in Hempy Buckets. He is in multiple feeds coco. He has had great success.
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yeah, i never could get to 8/16 of the Lucas formula either. about 4/8 was about the sweet spot for me.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Ehh I just pulled the trigger on a 25LB bag o Jack's 5-12-26 Part A of the 3-2-1 system. I already have calcium nitrate and epsom salt, so as soon as the Jack's hits my door I'm making the switch immediately and retiring my other fertilizers. I imagine 25LBS will probably last me 10+ years. I couldn't bring myself to let Canna or GH steal my money on this one. Canna is absolute highway fucking robbery and GH isn't much better for their 4 bottles of Cocotek nutrients. Remember this, canna and GH (and all other liquid nutrients for that matter) all started out as base salts added to water and then sealed in a bottle.

Why the fuck would anybody pay these people for their water?
Would you ever pay for Kool-Aid in a plastic bottle? Me either.
Buy the base ingredients (just like you do with kool-aid), and then mix it in water.
PH adjust and you're ready to rock.

GH does sell Maxi Grow and Bloom as dry salts, however their pricing is very expensive compared to Jack's. Check it out for yourself. Jack's is the way to go for value and effectiveness.
 
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myke

myke

Well-Known Member
Ive been doing the raw thing for awhile now.My local grow store has it ,cheap no name stuff.
Ca and Mg is all i add.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
myke said:
Ive been doing the raw thing for awhile now.My local grow store has it ,cheap no name stuff.
Ca and Mg is all i add.
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How cheap? I have literally no clue. I don't have the knowledge or the time to acquire the knowledge on how to effectively mix up my own salts to assemble a complete base of all the required macro and micro elements, so I reach out to my friends over at JR Peters. I'm hoping to have my package within the next 5 days. I'm excited to the tits to get rid of all my bullshit nutrient bottles. The only bottle that will remain in my grow room is floralicous plus. It's an all around great growth supplement with an extremely low NPK ratio.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Coco specific nutrients usually just means calcium nitrate for the nitrogen source.

I've been using VitaGrow for years with great results. It's three parts consisting of calcium nitrate, monopotassium phosphate, and a micronutrient blend. You can get it in dry or liquid form. I use the dry. I grow in coco and that's all I use. I've never needed CalMag. The calcium nitrate provides all the calcium needed when growing in coco.
 
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