Schwaggy P's Random Stuff

Schwaggy P

Well-Known Member
So the hydro gives the nice fat calyx? Or will the soil swell to be similar by day 61?
I think both look great. But the hydro def has the look of an easier trim.

Cheers :)
The soil plant will swell later on, but not to the same extent (in my experience). It seems the hydro plants tend to elongate a bit more and allow for better bud isolation to develop without being shielded by adjacent flowers. This would explain the apparent decrease in leaf/calyx ratio observed in the hydro plant. When I evaluate to what extent I "nailed it", the way the calyxes swell plays a big part in my assessment. On runs that miss the mark, I notice the swelling is not as intense relative to better runs.
 

CannaBruh

Well-Known Member
Hey @CannaBruh , would you happen to have any pics of Katsu's Bubba?
I don't hold it any longer. I have some old pics of her but none in flower. If you go over to icmag ograskl had a thread (don't recall title) where he had giesel schrom katsu fire few others, that was the Katsu i held. He had some great shots of her in flower.

I do hold pre98, both are respectable and I couldn't tell you if one is 'better' than the other. I feel Katsu's cut was more photogenic and prettier perhaps but bubba terps are so good.
 

outliergenetix

Well-Known Member
The soil plant will swell later on, but not to the same extent (in my experience). It seems the hydro plants tend to elongate a bit more and allow for better bud isolation to develop without being shielded by adjacent flowers. This would explain the apparent decrease in leaf/calyx ratio observed in the hydro plant. When I evaluate to what extent I "nailed it", the way the calyxes swell plays a big part in my assessment. On runs that miss the mark, I notice the swelling is not as intense relative to better runs.
i have not heard it explained that way interesting. all i knew is soil tends to be denser, never thought about the leaf ratio being invovled but it makes sense, i kinda hate greehouse seeds for morality reasons, but i watched their grow journal vids allot back in the day and their hydro was always double the weight and size i assume you experience the same or do you find your "denisty" in soil gets it closer in weight to hydro than those guys?
 

Jesselikes2grow

Well-Known Member
Good morning. Deliverance is in my cd player when i read that, if it wasnt so early i would jammed it. Lol. Wife wouldve been pissed. Lol. I've been watching this thread as you've got some awesomeness going on. That's some talent man, much respect. I actually found your thread looking for info on the chemdog strain. The version I have came from a local dispensary here in CO, I have no background details other than that. Won north America's cup for potency a while back I read somewhere and I love the smoke. What I'm curious of is about the characteristics of the diff phenotypes that can come out of the chemdog strains as you've experienced. IE: is there a particular leaf shape, or twist to leaves? Or a particular growth pattern they may have implying one plant is better than another? I ask as I planted 11 seeds and had 9 sprout out of those. Of the 9 there are 4 that look and act almost identical with big fat leaves that have some random double serrations of leaf edges. Also some random twist/hook to leaf fingers. Very expansive growth and quite bushy. There's 3 others that are much skinnier leaves, lighter in color and not nearly as robust as the rest. No double serrated leaves either, and straight, no twist. The last 2 are medium sized leaf, neither fat nor skinny. Also not as robust as the first 4 mentioned. Not all have sexed themselves yet either. The 3 biggest ones of the first four have their female preflowers though. Yay for that. Here's a few pics of them. Pardon the K burn from trying something new. Won't do that again. That set me back a good bit with various defs from the K tox. Almost past that now though. Getting back to healthy again. Wondering if its worth saving the weaker diff looking ones, like do the skinny leaf chems put out better than the fat leaf ones? I've had a plant before that was my all time favorite smoke, but it was always a finicky bitch. It was an unknown strain. So sad it's gone. I named it Shiloh select as my dog topped it for me at about 4 weeks. Lol. Sorry for the book, does this qualify for your random stuff? Lol. Thanks.
 

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Jesselikes2grow

Well-Known Member
Here was the Shiloh select I loved. And the others, that was my second year outdoor grow. All from unknown seeds I'd collected over the years waiting for a place to grow them. I've moved indoors since then, first grow here for my indoor venture. Still getting things dialed in, had to relearn my watering and some other things going inside. On that note, do the chemdog s you've got seem to prefer a certain level of their nutes? Light feeders or heavy, less of some more of another type of thing?
 

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Schwaggy P

Well-Known Member
Good morning. Deliverance is in my cd player when i read that, if it wasnt so early i would jammed it. Lol. Wife wouldve been pissed. Lol. I've been watching this thread as you've got some awesomeness going on. That's some talent man, much respect. I actually found your thread looking for info on the chemdog strain. The version I have came from a local dispensary here in CO, I have no background details other than that. Won north America's cup for potency a while back I read somewhere and I love the smoke. What I'm curious of is about the characteristics of the diff phenotypes that can come out of the chemdog strains as you've experienced. IE: is there a particular leaf shape, or twist to leaves? Or a particular growth pattern they may have implying one plant is better than another? I ask as I planted 11 seeds and had 9 sprout out of those. Of the 9 there are 4 that look and act almost identical with big fat leaves that have some random double serrations of leaf edges. Also some random twist/hook to leaf fingers. Very expansive growth and quite bushy. There's 3 others that are much skinnier leaves, lighter in color and not nearly as robust as the rest. No double serrated leaves either, and straight, no twist. The last 2 are medium sized leaf, neither fat nor skinny. Also not as robust as the first 4 mentioned. Not all have sexed themselves yet either. The 3 biggest ones of the first four have their female preflowers though. Yay for that. Here's a few pics of them. Pardon the K burn from trying something new. Won't do that again. That set me back a good bit with various defs from the K tox. Almost past that now though. Getting back to healthy again. Wondering if its worth saving the weaker diff looking ones, like do the skinny leaf chems put out better than the fat leaf ones? I've had a plant before that was my all time favorite smoke, but it was always a finicky bitch. It was an unknown strain. So sad it's gone. I named it Shiloh select as my dog topped it for me at about 4 weeks. Lol. Sorry for the book, does this qualify for your random stuff? Lol. Thanks.
Thank you for the kind words. So if I understand correctly, you have a Chemdog F1 hybrid of some sort and you would like to be able to ID the specific Chemdog used to make this hybrid.

Off the top of my head, the most used Chem cuts you’ll see in seeds are usually the Chem D, Chem 4, and Chem ‘91skva. The Chem Sis appears irregularly, and the JB and Chem 1 are less prevalent, with the Chem 3 being pretty rare. So I would focus my attention on those three cuts as the most likely Chem ingredient.

You mentioned some double serration and twisting of the leaves. Immediately, Chem D comes to mind as she has sporadic double serration on her leaves and can express intermittent leaf deformation (spurred by pH fluctuations). This side-by-side of the Chem D and a Chem D x Banana Kush show these traits and their tendency to pass to progeny.
chemd vs. cdbk.jpg
The Chem ‘91skva cut is a lankier plant that tends to breed this structure to progeny, so the bushier character you’re reporting in this mystery cross seems to suggest the ’91 may not be the best fit.
skva.jpg

As with any hybridized plants, there will be expressions from both parents, so trying to attribute specific traits to parents that are unknown can be very challenging. I do not currently hold the Chem 4 (yet :wink:), but know the leaves are a little more broad than the pictures I’ve posted of the other cuts, so narrow leaves aren’t really a Chem-specfic trait. I would look more to the pollen donor for contributing this expression.

To be able to pick which plants in an F1 will be best solely on leaf structure is nearly impossible without having experience with the parent stock to know how their traits pass along in certain crossings, to the extent that you can guarantee all broad leaves are the stronger vs the narrow leaves for instance. To this end, you’re going to have to test the final product to be able to decide whether potency/taste/smell is correlated with a specific structural trait. At that point you could then make decisions about keeper plants in subsequent grow outs of the same F1.

Without much more information, my best guess about which Chemdog was used in your plants, I would say Chem D (again, this is just the guess of some guy on the internet) based on the serration, sporadic leaf deformations, bushier growth, and fuller 5 finger fan leaves (‘91skva leaves tend to have larger 3 fingers/smaller 2 blades on the outside like an OG in early veg). The Chem D flowers have a fecal/dirty diaper smell in mid-flower, so be on the lookout for the smell as that will give you a better shot at identifying what you are working with here.

On that note, do the chemdog s you've got seem to prefer a certain level of their nutes? Light feeders or heavy, less of some more of another type of thing?
They seem to be on the lower end of average feeders (mileage will vary based on lighting and environmental factors). The deficiencies I see pop up most often are Calcium, magnesium, and potassium with these ladies. So a nice mid-flower CaMg boost is usually well received. Using a silica product throughout the grow can help keep the potassium supplementation continuous without having to spike your base flowering nutes. The Chem D can throw some nanners later in the cycle so be aware of this possibility.

Something I've done before when trying to figure out a plant's needs, is to take an extra clone (for science) and only give it plain water. As the nutrients in the soil are used up, the deficiencies specific to what the cut eats most will crop up first. This is a gross oversimplification, but can give you more insight into what a certain cut likes to eat in abundance. I've noticed many late flowering photos of Chems that have some serious potassium deficiencies and have seen similar results when doing this test on Chem hybrids.
 

Schwaggy P

Well-Known Member
i have not heard it explained that way interesting. all i knew is soil tends to be denser, never thought about the leaf ratio being invovled but it makes sense, i kinda hate greehouse seeds for morality reasons, but i watched their grow journal vids allot back in the day and their hydro was always double the weight and size i assume you experience the same or do you find your "denisty" in soil gets it closer in weight to hydro than those guys?
I've found that the hydro plants have a more significant stretching than their soil counterparts and finish with a larger overall plant. This translates to larger yields on average. Here is an example of starting and finishing heights I get in my hydro setups. The light distance really has not had much of an effect on curtailing the stretch and each plant has their own rough stretch amount, but you can see here that it's more than just doubling it's starting stature. I've observed this with different lighting setups/plants/nutes and seems to be a characteristic of hydro methods giving larger overall plants.
hydro plants.jpg

When I grow these same cuts under the same lights in soil, I get the doubling stretch and nowhere near the monstrous growth. So for me to have plants that finish their stretch to these sizes in soil, I would have to veg them for much longer.
 

Schwaggy P

Well-Known Member
I don't hold it any longer. I have some old pics of her but none in flower. If you go over to icmag ograskl had a thread (don't recall title) where he had giesel schrom katsu fire few others, that was the Katsu i held. He had some great shots of her in flower.

I do hold pre98, both are respectable and I couldn't tell you if one is 'better' than the other. I feel Katsu's cut was more photogenic and prettier perhaps but bubba terps are so good.
Thanks for the thread tip. How much coffee comes through on the final pre98 flowers?
 

GreenHighlander

Well-Known Member
I've found that the hydro plants have a more significant stretching than their soil counterparts and finish with a larger overall plant. This translates to larger yields on average. Here is an example of starting and finishing heights I get in my hydro setups. The light distance really has not had much of an effect on curtailing the stretch and each plant has their own rough stretch amount, but you can see here that it's more than just doubling it's starting stature. I've observed this with different lighting setups/plants/nutes and seems to be a characteristic of hydro methods giving larger overall plants.
View attachment 4279767

When I grow these same cuts under the same lights in soil, I get the doubling stretch and nowhere near the monstrous growth. So for me to have plants that finish their stretch to these sizes in soil, I would have to veg them for much longer.
First off every post of yours blows me away with how useful and precise the info is, and always with pictures.
I can't really comment on the difference between hydro and soil for stretch. But I can comment on what I have done and noticed.
Because of my current set up and situation I do not have the means of a long veg as I usually had done. My pattern for awhile now has been to put into flower pretty much as sex shows. So I noticed the plants weren't growing as tall and/or bushy as I was use to. I know it might sound crazy but the fix I found, especially for sativa dom phenos, was to keep my light pretty much stationary. It seems to really make them stretch and ( branch out if the pheno is so inclined) then when I useto move the light with the plants.
Since switching my light practice most plants tend to stretch 3-4 times their original height. I do still prefer the longer veg and bigger pots, but this method with the 7 gal have me content in comparison.

Cheers :)
 

Schwaggy P

Well-Known Member
Schwaggy, what is the buzz of that chemd x banana kush like, if you don't mind me askin, thanks!
Good timing, I just finished a bowl of it :smile:. It starts by slowing everything down for about 20 minutes. A mild confusion but in a good mood. Then it gets very energetic and stimulates appetite. I've been hitting the pantry pretty hard since smoking it. There was a faint banana smell and taste even to the last toke.
 

CannaBruh

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the thread tip. How much coffee comes through on the final pre98 flowers?
Currently vaping it, complex but there's some coffee in there. If one were to do a blind smell test I'm not sure coffee would be what I would guess but there's some notes of coffee grounds. It has a kush funk without being off-putting.

**pretty sure I'd nail it for bubba if I smelled it blind, hard to fake that
 

Jesselikes2grow

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the kind words. So if I understand correctly, you have a Chemdog F1 hybrid of some sort and you would like to be able to ID the specific Chemdog used to make this hybrid.

Off the top of my head, the most used Chem cuts you’ll see in seeds are usually the Chem D, Chem 4, and Chem ‘91skva. The Chem Sis appears irregularly, and the JB and Chem 1 are less prevalent, with the Chem 3 being pretty rare. So I would focus my attention on those three cuts as the most likely Chem ingredient.

You mentioned some double serration and twisting of the leaves. Immediately, Chem D comes to mind as she has sporadic double serration on her leaves and can express intermittent leaf deformation (spurred by pH fluctuations). This side-by-side of the Chem D and a Chem D x Banana Kush show these traits and their tendency to pass to progeny.
View attachment 4279756
The Chem ‘91skva cut is a lankier plant that tends to breed this structure to progeny, so the bushier character you’re reporting in this mystery cross seems to suggest the ’91 may not be the best fit.
View attachment 4279757

As with any hybridized plants, there will be expressions from both parents, so trying to attribute specific traits to parents that are unknown can be very challenging. I do not currently hold the Chem 4 (yet :wink:), but know the leaves are a little more broad than the pictures I’ve posted of the other cuts, so narrow leaves aren’t really a Chem-specfic trait. I would look more to the pollen donor for contributing this expression.

To be able to pick which plants in an F1 will be best solely on leaf structure is nearly impossible without having experience with the parent stock to know how their traits pass along in certain crossings, to the extent that you can guarantee all broad leaves are the stronger vs the narrow leaves for instance. To this end, you’re going to have to test the final product to be able to decide whether potency/taste/smell is correlated with a specific structural trait. At that point you could then make decisions about keeper plants in subsequent grow outs of the same F1.

Without much more information, my best guess about which Chemdog was used in your plants, I would say Chem D (again, this is just the guess of some guy on the internet) based on the serration, sporadic leaf deformations, bushier growth, and fuller 5 finger fan leaves (‘91skva leaves tend to have larger 3 fingers/smaller 2 blades on the outside like an OG in early veg). The Chem D flowers have a fecal/dirty diaper smell in mid-flower, so be on the lookout for the smell as that will give you a better shot at identifying what you are working with here.


They seem to be on the lower end of average feeders (mileage will vary based on lighting and environmental factors). The deficiencies I see pop up most often are Calcium, magnesium, and potassium with these ladies. So a nice mid-flower CaMg boost is usually well received. Using a silica product throughout the grow can help keep the potassium supplementation continuous without having to spike your base flowering nutes. The Chem D can throw some nanners later in the cycle so be aware of this possibility.

Something I've done before when trying to figure out a plant's needs, is to take an extra clone (for science) and only give it plain water. As the nutrients in the soil are used up, the deficiencies specific to what the cut eats most will crop up first. This is a gross oversimplification, but can give you more insight into what a certain cut likes to eat in abundance. I've noticed many late flowering photos of Chems that have some serious potassium deficiencies and have seen similar results when doing this test on Chem hybrids.
Pretty much spot on info man. Thank you for the feedback. Love the pics.
 

Jesselikes2grow

Well-Known Member
So then of the chems youve grown is there anything youve found that is a trend with the best of them? As far as growth patterns or other determining factor? Obviously the healthiest ones are in the keeper pile, but of those how do I choose who to keep a copy of? I ask since i dont have the room to clone them all and flower them all. At least not yet. As of now, besides the 4x5 I have just my small grow box that only has room for 3 plants max. Small ones. But who knows, there's a good few of them haven't got preflowers yet. At least the 3 confirmed ladies are the healthiest. Lol. If there's a way to have an idea of what you'd look for that'd help. Don't want to lose another choice plant just because it's finicky and I haven't figured out it's needs yet. I guess I should let my dog choose again. She chose the dankest of them to munch on. Lol. I'm spacing out in the greenhouse and hear munching. Wtf I think. Then I look and OMG, plant was about 8 inches shorter. Lol. Named it after the dog. My fav nugs ever and the dog picked it. She knows what she likes. Ps, about 12-16 oz a year is grown for her canna butter medicine. She's 13 now, had arthritis for last 4. Does 100% better with meds. So do I. Lol hahaha.
 

Schwaggy P

Well-Known Member
TITLE-JS.png
Smell: hashy, spicy, earthy, melon
Taste: hashy, spicy, earthy, melon, kush, caramel, ginger, potato skins
Effect: varying degrees of relaxed to couchlock ~1.5-2hrs, a couple 60/40 indicas with headiness ~2hrs
Growing: Stats averaged from 8 phenos out of one pack
Stretch: roughly double to triple initial flowering height
Flowering Time: 60-75 days
Nutes: moderate feeder, some phenos more prone to nitrogen overload


TASTE
Most phenos expressed a hashy, spicy, earthy quality in the taste. This has been an observed consistency with many Bubba Kush hybrids in other experiences. On average, the aroma of the buds faithfully translated in the taste both in exhale and lingering quality after a toke.

An earthy, root quality was seen in a couple phenos expressing as potato skins, ginger, and decaying roots.

The few phenos with a melon note were most closely like a honeydew melon or cantaloupe in profile. One pheno in particular had a burned caramel exhale accompanying the melon note that made for a great flavor.

EFFECT
Most phenos were solidly indica in effect. Some were just a sweeping full body relaxation that allowed for functionality, debilitating couchlock with no hope of accomplishing much more than keeping a seat warm, and a couple with a heady quality that could be daytime options.

I found the few with this heady nuance to be a more developing type of effect, in the sense that the quality of the buzz would change over time. It may begin as a mind storm with some buzzing in the extremities and settle into a more gentle elevated mood after 30 minutes.

Most phenos would be great choices for people seeking muscle relaxation, anti-inflammatory properties, and mood enhancement.

OVERALL
I think the true accomplishment of this cross was the generally consistent range of smoker experience across very different plant morphologies. By this I mean that the smells/tastes/effects/ were pretty consistently expressed in plants of varying stature, flowering time, and growth patterns.

Some phenos would be perfect for SOG method; growing as one main stalk without needing much pruning and staying compact throughout the moderate stretch. One pheno in particular (#10) had one of the most amazing natural structures of a plant I’ve seen expressed without grower training. She had multiple tops that were evenly distributed, narrow leaves to allow light penetration, and great intermodal spacing to allow bud development without the yield suffering. I could see her performing quite well in a SCROG setup.

Jabba’s Stash offers a solid indica smoke giving growers plenty of choice in a plant that can best suit their growing style.

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