Help designing a new cab

[NewGrowth]

Hey specialkay,
This reminds me of the old overgrow threads with people building cabs with the c-22's from Lowes. I built one myself for a friend and ended up tearing it apart and just fitting all the equipment in his closet because the thing was just too flimsy and it was too hard to get no light leaks, when I installed weather stripping the doors would not even close. So if that cabinet is that cheap fiberboard stuff with cardboard backing you might want to look into buying some better hinges for the doors and some 1/4" ply to replace the cardboard backing for a more rigid structure.
Now on to your questions:

1. Yes, with a properly cooled light you can easily get your plants within 8" of a 400W HPS without burning them. You might want to look into a SCOG set up with your limited space however.

2. i have never used those fans but if they are just booster fans they will not be very good a pushing the air through lots of ducting. A 200 CFM fan should cool a 400W HPS, but fan quality varies.

3. Your 197cfm should vent that space fine

4. A 10gal rez will be cutting it close with 6-9 plants you will have to refill it often. I know you like the flood table set up and don't get me wrong, I love flood tables but I think there might be better options for your cab.

Good Luck SpecialKay keep us updated!

 

[specialkayme]

Hey specialkay,
This reminds me of the old overgrow threads with people building cabs with the c-22's from Lowes. I built one myself for a friend and ended up tearing it apart and just fitting all the equipment in his closet because the thing was just too flimsy and it was too hard to get no light leaks, when I installed weather stripping the doors would not even close. So if that cabinet is that cheap fiberboard stuff with cardboard backing you might want to look into buying some better hinges for the doors and some 1/4" ply to replace the cardboard backing for a more rigid structure.
Now on to your questions:

1. Yes, with a properly cooled light you can easily get your plants within 8" of a 400W HPS without burning them. You might want to look into a SCOG set up with your limited space however.

2. i have never used those fans but if they are just booster fans they will not be very good a pushing the air through lots of ducting. A 200 CFM fan should cool a 400W HPS, but fan quality varies.

3. Your 197cfm should vent that space fine

4. A 10gal rez will be cutting it close with 6-9 plants you will have to refill it often. I know you like the flood table set up and don't get me wrong, I love flood tables but I think there might be better options for your cab.

Good Luck SpecialKay keep us updated!

Haha, the good old Overgrow days. I wish that forum was still around. I loved it.

I'm sorta used to this construction, and while it can be flimsy, and they do have cardboard backing, I know I can make it work. At least with a few modifacations. i already planned on replacing the cardboard back with actual wood, and I also planned on adding metal corner brackets to the inside. It will help stabalize it. I also use a cloth material called 'Blackout' instead of weather stripping. For one it's cheaper, and for two it's 100% light proof. They make curtains out of it. The beauty of it is if you have a space really small, just use one layer of the cloth, if it is thicker, just use two, or three, or roll it up, ect. It's very versatile.

But anyway, thanks for answering my questions, and taking a look in general. I find it a releif to know my venting would be adequate. Would you think I need a 197 CFM fan just for the light, and then another 197 CFM for general ventilation, or would you recomend more? I was aiming for 450 CFM for general exhaust of the flowering room, just to cover the bases.

And I already know a 10 gal rez would be too small for a 6-9 plant set up, which is why I was hoping for a larger one. I checked out Walmart, and the biggest rubermaid container I can fit in a 24"x24"x12" space is a 14 gallon rez, wich isn't much of an improvement.

If you wouldn't recomend a flood and drain set up, what then? Just so you know, I have used soil (and while it is nice, I'm looking to improve a little), Hempy buckets (same thing here, good intro to hydro, but I'm a little past that point), flood and drain, and dwc. I really wasn't a fan of DWC, and plus for a 6-9 plant set up I would need a rez larger than 14 gallons anyway, so I don't really see how any other set up would benefit me more, but if you know other wise, please inform me. I would love to know.

Any ideas about the carbon setup?

 

[DR. VonDankenstine]

Got your PM-easier to post for all to see in case someone has the same question----try this. 1. Use your cooltube as a vacuum and pull the hot air out of the box and draw fresh air in.(you kill 2 birds with one rock) getting fresh air in and cooling the cab. 2. Run the the duct into a homemade ONA air eater/ air chiller.(walmart carries the large marine coolers, get one of these and rig it up so your vent will go into the ona bucket(duct goes into ona bucket lid which you have filled with a 50-1 ratio of ona to water and a tablespoon of soil moist---drill holes all around bucket above ona line. Then place bucket in marine chiller next to some gallon milk jugs you have frozen-built a vent on the side of the cooler and have spare jugs frozen ready to exchange. No need to use window vent and since your only useing a 400hps the chiller should last a week or soo. Your cfm's are fine even if you have some bends-it's only one 400 light and a very short run of tubing. I once used a fan with just under 500 cfm to push the air thou 4 600's and about 25' of duct- Ozone works fantastic at killing odors but has a very distinctive smell that is just as easy to identify and almost always associated now a days with the plant we love. Once you smell it-you never forget it and neither does anyone else if you catch my drift. Ona by itself or ona and a small carbon filter will take care of business--you could even attache the filter to the cooltube inside your cab. good luck

 

[specialkayme]

Very interesting idea with the marine cooler/ona air chiller. Do you have any links, or know of any posts where I can get more information about this?

 

[NewGrowth]

I think 450CFM Would be overkill you want to exhaust all the air in the room every three minutes as a general rule. I was thinking an aero-tub/dwc set up, it would allow you to fit a larger rez without the added height of a flood table. I just use a rubber maid with an ultrasonic fogger and an air stone. The added benefit is the ultrasonic fogger will sterilize your nutrient solution as well so no need for H2O2. Here is a link for the foggers Ultrasonic Water Fogger-The Mist Maker Super easy to set up just get 3" net pots use a hole saw on the lid drop in the air stone and fogger.

As far as odor control for such a small space a carbon filter should would just fine, I think a ozone generator would be overkill.

 

[specialkayme]

I think 450CFM Would be overkill you want to exhaust all the air in the room every three minutes as a general rule. I was thinking an aero-tub/dwc set up, it would allow you to fit a larger rez without the added height of a flood table. I just use a rubber maid with an ultrasonic fogger and an air stone. The added benefit is the ultrasonic fogger will sterilize your nutrient solution as well so no need for H2O2. Here is a link for the foggers Ultrasonic Water Fogger-The Mist Maker Super easy to set up just get 3" net pots use a hole saw on the lid drop in the air stone and fogger.

As far as odor control for such a small space a carbon filter should would just fine, I think a ozone generator would be overkill.

Fair enough, I'll probably cut it down to another 197 CFM fan. So that would be one 197 CFM fan for the cool tube, and then another one for the general ventilation.

As far as the aero tub/dwc container goes, I don't see how I would get a larger rez, or more space. The largest rubermaid container that I can fit in a 24"x24"x12" space is a 14 gallon one. If I use that as the reservoir of my flood table, I would save the 7" of vertical space that the flood table takes up by switching to a dwc grow, but the largest container that can fit in there is still a 14 gallon rubermaid, so I wouldn't actually be able to gain anything as far as reservoir size or grow size. Perhaps I'm missing something, and if I am, I'd love to hear it.

And since the general concensus is that an ozone generator is overkill, and since I already have one from before, I'll just holdon to it and not encorporate it into the grow, but keep it in my room as added security, just in case something happens.

Thanks newgrowth for the imput, and keep it coming, I REALLY appreciate it!

 

[cruzer101]

Hi,

I received your pm. Here is my opinion.

1. Do you think that is possible to get plants to grow up to 8" of a 400 watt HPS without burning them or stunting the growth, provided that I have a cool tube hooked up?

Yes, when you use a cool tube there is no heat to worry about, the air moving through the glass tube makes it cool like a fluorescent. I use a 120cfm duct booster for my homemade cool tube.

2. What type of CFM rated fan from: Soler & Palau Commercial Centrifugal, Axial, Propeller, Exhaust and Supply Fans - Soler and Palau - HVACQuick.com should I use to provide adequate ventilation for the cool tube, in order to get the plants within 8" of the light?

I use a 400w in a cab thats 36x18 when my plants finish they will be about 6 inches away from the tube.

3. What CFM rated fan would you recomend for adequate ventilation for a flowering room of the dimentions 24"w X 24"d X 70"h?

Doesn’t take much. Your actual grow chamber will probably be no more than 16 cubic feet. 120cfm would exchange the air in the cabinet 7.5 times per minute. You may want to look into computer case fans. Just get a dc supply, a couple 60 cfm fans. You won’t hear a thing.

4. Is a 10 gallon reservoir big enough for 6-9 plants?

I use a drip system with 6 plants. I found with a drip system I use much less water. I have a 5 gallon container that I marked at 1 gallon increments. I use 3 gallons. I get a five gallon bottle of distilled, mix up 3 gallons and add 1 gallon fresh every couple days. Then change out once a week.

5. Where can I get a reservoir bigger than 10 gallons that can fit in a 24"wx24"d space, without getting bigger than 12"H?

From what I understand 1 cubic foot is about 7.5 gallons of water. You have 24x24x12 so you have plenty of space. Go to local drug store and look for storage containers. Sterlite, Rubbermaid whatever. They make some called sweater boxes that would work. Or a kitty litter pan.

Water,

When you think about it hydroponics were invented to grow produce in country’s that have little or no water supply. When it comes to growing buds we forget that and use 10 times more water then what’s needed.
Sure we recover the waste and use it again but why move all that water when you don’t have to? In my case I buy my water 5 gallons at a time. The distilled is zero ppms so when I add nutes I know what’s in the water. Sure you can use r/o water that’s about 30 ppms. My tap water is about 350 ppms and had several problems I couldn’t solve. Don’t use tap.

Grow space,

I found the screen of green (SCROG) is the best way to go in a small area. Once your plants are 10 to 12 inches tall you start flowering and weave the plants into the screen. They stretch for a couple weeks but they don’t increase in height. When you see the buds forming (about two weeks) stop weaving and let them grow. You can grow in less than 36" of height.
If you do go with a drip system add a couple trays of water to the floor of the grow area to help add humidity.

Plant species,

Although sativa generally is easier to grow Indicia is better in small areas. It grows shorter and seems to have more nodes at the bottom of the stalk. The only thing I don’t like about indicia is that it requires cooler temps. In the summer the ambient temps reach in the 100's in my case and I can’t keep the cabinet cool enough. So I grow a hybrid that’s a mix but Indicia dominate. I am growing Apollo this grow.

I am keeping a journal at one of my websites. When I am done I will post it here at roll it up. I am sure there is some useful info for ya, Here is a link. A sneek peek if you will.

Apollo

Good luck.

 

[specialkayme]

Hi,

I received your pm. Here is my opinion.

1. Do you think that is possible to get plants to grow up to 8" of a 400 watt HPS without burning them or stunting the growth, provided that I have a cool tube hooked up?

Yes, when you use a cool tube there is no heat to worry about, the air moving through the glass tube makes it cool like a fluorescent. I use a 120cfm duct booster for my homemade cool tube.

2. What type of CFM rated fan from: Soler & Palau Commercial Centrifugal, Axial, Propeller, Exhaust and Supply Fans - Soler and Palau - HVACQuick.com should I use to provide adequate ventilation for the cool tube, in order to get the plants within 8" of the light?

I use a 400w in a cab thats 36x18 when my plants finish they will be about 6 inches away from the tube.

3. What CFM rated fan would you recomend for adequate ventilation for a flowering room of the dimentions 24"w X 24"d X 70"h?

Doesn’t take much. Your actual grow chamber will probably be no more than 16 cubic feet. 120cfm would exchange the air in the cabinet 7.5 times per minute. You may want to look into computer case fans. Just get a dc supply, a couple 60 cfm fans. You won’t hear a thing.

4. Is a 10 gallon reservoir big enough for 6-9 plants?

I use a drip system with 6 plants. I found with a drip system I use much less water. I have a 5 gallon container that I marked at 1 gallon increments. I use 3 gallons. I get a five gallon bottle of distilled, mix up 3 gallons and add 1 gallon fresh every couple days. Then change out once a week.

5. Where can I get a reservoir bigger than 10 gallons that can fit in a 24"wx24"d space, without getting bigger than 12"H?

From what I understand 1 cubic foot is about 7.5 gallons of water. You have 24x24x12 so you have plenty of space. Go to local drug store and look for storage containers. Sterlite, Rubbermaid whatever. They make some called sweater boxes that would work. Or a kitty litter pan.

Water,

When you think about it hydroponics were invented to grow produce in country’s that have little or no water supply. When it comes to growing buds we forget that and use 10 times more water then what’s needed.
Sure we recover the waste and use it again but why move all that water when you don’t have to? In my case I buy my water 5 gallons at a time. The distilled is zero ppms so when I add nutes I know what’s in the water. Sure you can use r/o water that’s about 30 ppms. My tap water is about 350 ppms and had several problems I couldn’t solve. Don’t use tap.

Grow space,

I found the screen of green (SCROG) is the best way to go in a small area. Once your plants are 10 to 12 inches tall you start flowering and weave the plants into the screen. They stretch for a couple weeks but they don’t increase in height. When you see the buds forming (about two weeks) stop weaving and let them grow. You can grow in less than 36" of height.
If you do go with a drip system add a couple trays of water to the floor of the grow area to help add humidity.

Plant species,

Although sativa generally is easier to grow Indicia is better in small areas. It grows shorter and seems to have more nodes at the bottom of the stalk. The only thing I don’t like about indicia is that it requires cooler temps. In the summer the ambient temps reach in the 100's in my case and I can’t keep the cabinet cool enough. So I grow a hybrid that’s a mix but Indicia dominate. I am growing Apollo this grow.

I am keeping a journal at one of my websites. When I am done I will post it here at roll it up. I am sure there is some useful info for ya, Here is a link. A sneek peek if you will.

Apollo

Good luck.

Thanks for the help Cruzer. I knew if anyone could help me with this design, you would be one of them.

I havn't checked out your grow yet, but I will at the next chance.

Most of what you have written I already knew about, and generally agreed with. I have already chosen my strain as Arjan's Strawberry Haze and Blue Cheese. I already started growing these in my current grow box, so we will see how well they are able to stay low. I already know the Strawberry Haze will work better than the BC, but we will see.

One of the main things that you have stated different than everyone else is the reservoir size. I think you are the only person that thinks I can pull it off with a 10 gallon reservoir. I think I could do it, but would like the added security of say a 17-25 gallon reservoir, just in case something should happen and I can't make it to the cab for like a week or a week and a half. But I will keep my eyes open for a bigger container than can fit in that area.

I appreciate the suggestion to move to ScrOG, but I have tried it in the past and I'm not very good with it. I'll do it if when push comes to shove I can't fit the plants in there, but I would really like to try something else.

I was actually pleased to hear that you think I could pull off general ventilation with only a Computer Fan, because I have two of them lying around from an old box that never worked. The only issue is with the carbon filter. Do you think I could adequately ventilate the box, while still pushing air through a home made carbon filter with two of these: Cooler Master 120x25mm Dual Ball Silent Fan (Y720CCD-25K1-GP) - 109.6CFM - FrozenCPU.com ? or should I stick with a 100 CFM duct fan?

 

[cruzer101]

Well, with a smaller res you just need to monitor it closely. As the plant uses the nutes it exchanges salts and drinks the water. Your ppms can get out of hand so you need to add fresh and ph it every day.

I suppose you could rig up a second res full of fresh and install a float valve in the main res and gravity feed it. Then you can offset the ph that so when it mixes you end up with what you need. Well if you needed to leave it a week. (It worked for me)


Smaller fans will ventilate the cabinet just fine however you will need more cfm to push through a filter. I haven’t the need for one but I would go at least 120 cfm. From what I have read you may need more.

 

[specialkayme]

Well, with a smaller res you just need to monitor it closely. As the plant uses the nutes it exchanges salts and drinks the water. Your ppms can get out of hand so you need to add fresh and ph it every day.

I suppose you could rig up a second res full of fresh and install a float valve in the main res and gravity feed it. Then you can offset the ph that so when it mixes you end up with what you need. Well if you needed to leave it a week. (It worked for me)


Smaller fans will ventilate the cabinet just fine however you will need more cfm to push through a filter. I haven’t the need for one but I would go at least 120 cfm. From what I have read you may need more.

I'm still a little nervious about putting a 10 or 14 gallon reservoir in there. I know I'll have to check the ph every day, but occasionally I get absent minded aobut things like that, and it might go two or three days before I check it. That's my only concern, but I guess I'll just play around and see. Worst case scenereo, if the res isn't big enough I'll just switch to an entire Hempy bucket grow, or even soil. But hopefully it doesn't come down to that.

As far as the smaller fans and the carbon filter, that's what I figured. I'll probably get another TD125 fan, which is 197/149 Cfm fan. If the 149 CFM works, I'll stick with that, and if not I can put it in high mode.

Btw, how have you never needed a carbon filter?

 

[cruzer101]

Simple, The heat from the light goes outside in the summer, inside in the winter but there isnt any smell there. The air around the plants I vent into my house. I live alone and enjoy the smell. I only notice it the last month of flower anyway.

 

[specialkayme]

If anyone is keeping up with this thread, or otherwise interested, I do have an update in development.

I have not yet begun construction of this thread, mainly due to a complication in funds. A relative of mine promised to return a favor by purchasing a gift certificate to either Home Depot or Lowes and mail it to me. I'm waiting for this gift certificate before I continue. No sense paying out of pocket if I can get most if not all of the supplies for free, right?

I have purchased everything that I need that isn't sold at HD or Lowes, with the exception of the FatMat (still trying to decide between FatMat and FatMat Extreme) and the second TD Mixvent fan. Still trying to decide if I need it or not.

I also decided to get four of these:

Amazon.com: Adorama Darkroom Light Tight Louvers, 8"X8": Camera & Photo

for ventilation.

 

[BigBudBalls]

NICE find on the louvers!

I'd love to get one of those "Orgasmatron" doors, but at $1500+ I think I'll pass.

 

[HoLE]

Alright, so I'm starting the planning phase of my new grow cab, and I have a few questions. Not only am I hoping to get a few answers to my questions, but general comments would be wonderful as well.

For starters, my plan is to take a pre-existing wardrobe cabinet and modify it. The one I was looking to start with looks alot like this one:

30" Versa Multi-Purpose Cabinet

The only difference being the dimentions. The one I was planning on modeling it around is 71 3/4 " H x 29 5/8 " W x 20 1/2 " D. First my plan is to improve the depth from 20" to 24", to allow more room for the rest of the items.

In the main flowering room, I planned on having a 400 watt HPS with a cool tube. The ducting would run from outside the cab, to the light, then to the exhaust fan that is located in the mech room (more on that latter), then out the back again. Grow method would be with a basic flood and drain set up. The main flood tray would be:
22" x 22" x 7" Tray (white) | Trays=
and then a reservoir underneath that, either a 10 gallon:

10 Gallon Multi-Res Bottom | Reservoirs=

or a 20 gallon:

20 Gallon Multi-Res Kit (Bottom & Lid) | BGH=

The flowering room would be 24" W x 24" D. Since the cab is 30" Wide, I would put a divider up (wood), cutting the cab in two sections, the smaller being 6" wide. The lower part would be the mother/clone room (I realize that 6" is a narrow area for a plant, but I just need a mother and a few clones to grow, nothing big. Oh, and floros would be here). The ballast to the HPS would be in the upper part, along with the fan for the the cool tube, and the exhaust fan to regulate the temp. I'm a fan of S&P Mixvent fans:

Soler & Palau Commercial Centrifugal, Axial, Propeller, Exhaust and Supply Fans - Soler and Palau - HVACQuick.com

The mech room would hold the home made carbon scrubber, in addition to an ozone generator for added protection.

In addition to this, it would obviously be light proofed with weather stripping. I would most likely line all of the walls with Fatmat to reduce sound and vibrations, and paint everything flat white.

For security, I'll place two Tot locks on the inside, the kind that use magnets to open, along with one latch on the outside to make it look locked.

My over all grow style was hopefully to be a SOG, which leads us to a few of my questions. The first of all has to do with the vertical height needed. The reservoir is about 12" tall, the flood tray is 7", and according to:
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html the plants will only get about 40" tall. Adding all of these up, that would give me about 12" to work with, including the space used for the light itself. The cool tube is 4" in diameter, so that would mean the plants would have to get within 8" of the light. Do you think that is possible, or should I plan on expanding the cab's height? Also, what cfm would I need to use to get the plants within 8" of the light?

My other question has to do with reserviors. I was hoping to fit a reservoir within a 24"wx24"d space. The only one I could find to fit in that space is a 10 gallon tank. Do you think that is enough? and if not, does anyone know where I can get a larger one that fits within that space? The 20 gallon link I gave above is 20"wx26"d.

Also, what CFM rated fan would you recomend for the general exhaust of the flower room? I have used the Mixvent 125 fan before, rated at 197 CFM, and this has worked well in smaller cabs, but I'm not sure about this one. Any ideas?

Ok, so I know it's long, but I'm trying to be thorough, and give enough information for individuals to judge me, my work, my ideas, and my potential. If there is something I forgot, feel free to tell me, or if I need to change something, feel free to say so, but please don't tell me that I need to do a ScrOG, or use a bubbler or something.

To reiterate the questions, because I know they are all over the place here, they are:

1. Do you think that is possible to get plants to grow up to 8" of a 400 watt HPS without burning them or stunting the growth, provided that I have a cool tube hooked up?

2. What type of CFM rated fan from: Soler & Palau Commercial Centrifugal, Axial, Propeller, Exhaust and Supply Fans - Soler and Palau - HVACQuick.com should I use to provide adequate ventilation for the cool tube, in order to get the plants within 8" of the light?

3. What CFM rated fan would you recomend for adequate ventilation for a flowering room of the dimentions 24"w X 24"d X 70"h?

4. Is a 10 gallon reservoir big enough for 6-9 plants?

5. Where can I get a reservoir bigger than 10 gallons that can fit in a 24"wx24"d space, without getting bigger than 12"H?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

sorry I never got back to you,,I am a seasonal worker,,and am workin my ass off,,plus I just got my 2 boys bak this summer so had to settle right down,,I will read your thread and help where I may,,again,,sorry

Keep on Growin

HoLE

 

[specialkayme]

sorry I never got back to you,,I am a seasonal worker,,and am workin my ass off,,plus I just got my 2 boys bak this summer so had to settle right down,,I will read your thread and help where I may,,again,,sorry

Keep on Growin

HoLE

No problem Hole, whenever you get the chance I would greatly appreciate the input.