What's wrong ?

[BurnzyBurnz]

Hey everyone,

So after several grows I've always dreaded germination of seeds. I've never really had a full failure, I've always managed to save them or they grew properly. However after the last 4 seeds I've germinated (expensive humbolt seeds) I have had issues.

From start steps I use...

Paper towel method, wait til I see a good tap root usually within 48hrs to soil.
I plant about nuckle deep " 2cm " ... I plant in a Coco earth casting mix with added perlite. Room temp 26C humidity 65% - 70%. Light on for 12hrs a day.

Again I've never had an unsuccessful seed to break soil and continue onwards. However I do notice it can take upwards to 7 days before breaking soil. Also, typically the shell needs help to fall of via me. I also notice even after the shell is off the cotyledons are still stuck together by some sort of film.

I always plant root down and yet a couple times I've had to dig up the cotyledons to insure it doesn't grow down and die in the soil. I had to do that to both of these seeds. Clearly I am making a mistake somewhere. Can you help me ?

I've read tones and feel like I'm understanding everything and am following the steps properly. Also prior grows have been successful.

Am I supposed to keep the seeds always in the dark while performing the paper towel method... " Because I do. "

When I plant the tap root in soil am I supposed to keep it in the dark also ?

Am I not planting the tap root properly ? Or deep enough ?

* * * Do you know a better full proof method of successfully germinating / starting seedlings ??? * * *


All replies are greatly appreciated and welcomed. Thank you for taking the time to read and lend a helpful hand. Cheers.

See pictures for details. Ask me anything. In the picture I had just watered using the spray bottle method. Hence why so wet looking.

 

[Concrete3511]

looks overwatered no perlite in the medium

 

[TexadaTimewarp]

Medium looks way too wet.

young plants have enough nutrients to supple theirselves till the cotyledons die..so even earth worm castings are not necessary.. and may be too much

i plant germed seeds maybe 1/4 inch under soil. just enough to cover it.

soak your medium before you plant. then just mist the top as needed. you do NOT want to have medium soaked ( looks like your is way too wet, and is mostly the main issue)

also sometimes plants have hard time shedding its shell or its membrane. if they have trouble, very carefully use tweezers and work it off. you need to be gentle as any wrong move can kill it.. but i have had 100% success rate with manualing removing these. just takes patience.

besides that your not doing anything wrong. GL

 

[myke]

Ive always soaked first then into medium.Dont bother with the paper towel.
Too deep as you said is most likely the problem.

 

[vostok]

Hey everyone,

So after several grows I've always dreaded germination of seeds. I've never really had a full failure, I've always managed to save them or they grew properly. However after the last 4 seeds I've germinated (expensive humbolt seeds) I have had issues.

From start steps I use...

Paper towel method, wait til I see a good tap root usually within 48hrs to soil.
I plant about nuckle deep " 2cm " ... I plant in a Coco earth casting mix with added perlite. Room temp 26C humidity 65% - 70%. Light on for 12hrs a day.

Again I've never had an unsuccessful seed to break soil and continue onwards. However I do notice it can take upwards to 7 days before breaking soil. Also, typically the shell needs help to fall of via me. I also notice even after the shell is off the cotyledons are still stuck together by some sort of film.

I always plant root down and yet a couple times I've had to dig up the cotyledons to insure it doesn't grow down and die in the soil. I had to do that to both of these seeds. Clearly I am making a mistake somewhere. Can you help me ?

I've read tones and feel like I'm understanding everything and am following the steps properly. Also prior grows have been successful.

Am I supposed to keep the seeds always in the dark while performing the paper towel method... " Because I do. "

When I plant the tap root in soil am I supposed to keep it in the dark also ?

Am I not planting the tap root properly ? Or deep enough ?

* * * Do you know a better full proof method of successfully germinating / starting seedlings ??? * * *


All replies are greatly appreciated and welcomed. Thank you for taking the time to read and lend a helpful hand. Cheers.

See pictures for details. Ask me anything. In the picture I had just watered using the spray bottle method. Hence why so wet looking.

I tell you how I do it ...you compare

I store my seeds in the freezer in a medicine bottle with rice

I extract the seeds to a jar lined with sandpaper

shake for 30 sec.. this scrapes the shell so water gets in

I then soak in warm water 25c with 3-4 tsp of aloe vera juice, an organic surfactant

I soak for 8-12 hours until the seed sinks, it means more water in shell than air

I extract to damp kitchen towel (Blue so I can see the tail) keep at 25C/77F

now the rest for 24 - 48 hours (resting here is a procedure waiting for the seed cells to be stimulated by the water)

once they crack I'm happy but wait until the tail/radicle is about 50mm/2" long

then plant out into prepped solo cups or rapid rooters

you need rapid rooters that soil looks like Kavier?

good luck

 

[Blitz35]

I always plant root down and yet a couple times I've had to dig up the cotyledons to insure it doesn't grow down and die in the soil. I had to do that to both of these seeds. Clearly I am making a mistake somewhere. Can you help me ?

Key to germination, is temperature! With this comment, if you had to dig up the seeds to get them to grow upright...then i believe temps are your issue. Plants know to grow upright, and will re-orient themselves to do so even if planted upside down..they follow the heat! The warmer it is..the closer to the sun they get..colder and they are going down, so they know it's the wrong way If your temps are too cold, then they may be 'lost' in the soil and unsure where to go. Germination is very easy..no need for all kinds of fancy nonsense...warm/damp (not wet!) setting, and 24-48 hours later they are ready to plant. If going straight to soil..you have to make sure the surface temps of the soil are warm..it's what tells the seed which way to go to reach the surface

 

[Coloradoclear]

I leave my lights on 24-7 for seeds. Over watering kills more seeds than anything else. Rapid rooters work really well.

 

[mustbetribbin]

A medium to low intensity light source is good for seeds/seedlings ideally, no light isn't really ideal and might spark hermie traits to develop later on in the plants life. High intensity light, or too much sunlight early on can cook/kill a developing seedling, it's not an extreme risk but should still be a concern if your goal is ideal/natural conditions. Seeds/ Seedlings typically sprout/grow in natural filtered light in nature...

You typically want the germination of a seed once it's shell has cracked to happen somewhat quickly as if this process occurs too slowly the seed can/will die before it can develop any further, light can & does speed this growth stage along.

Heat anywhere from say at 70-90F degrees, ideally I'd go for about 78-80 degrees if they are somewhat fresh seeds, for older aged seeds I'd stay closer to about 70-72 maybe slightly less as the germination process is typically much slower with more risk factor, less heat lowered chance of cooking/degrading the older/aged seeds, better results.

You can sprout seeds without heat but it's not ideal, as room temperature soil is typically 8-10 degrees cooler than a rooms ambient temp, 62 is just a few degrees short of being in the ideal zone, below 55 most seeds/seedlings will be stunted and exhibit a shorter lifespan typically. 65F degrees kind of the neutral rule of thumb temperature that I wouldn't go below personally.

As for the 90F degree suggestion it being the upper limit on how warm you might want your seeds to germinate in, mostly for tropical sativas and warm climate varietals. I would stay closer to 82-85F for increased safety, although for fresh seeds they would probably sprout the quickest at 90F believe it or not, granted the right strain is used, typically Indicas or more robust varietals don't need as much bottom heat as sativas/thinner stretchy varietals.

So basically yes both suggestions before mine regarding light and heat are correct, I just wanted to elaborate where I was able.

Another suggestion I would add is if you are sprouting in soil, is make sure the soil that covers the actual seed itself is light and airy mostly soil-less mixture of organic matter if your able, dense soil can be too heavy and compacted for a seed/seedling to develop correctly once it cracks it's shell.

I typically make a small indention in the soil less than half inch, place the seed in, then sprinkle a light substrate on top of the seedling made of mostly organic matter, I don't buy seed stater mix or necessarily suggest it, what I do myself though is buy a typical bag of organic garden mix (without fertilizers/additives, typically a more mild less hot mixture is ideal) and I filter it through 1/4" square screen to take out all the large clumps and bark ect, this allows the seed to not have anything blocking it's light source while under the soil, and allows me to see when a seedling is pressing upwards and I try to make sure at least a tiny portion of each cracking seedling has some light making its way down to it, just lightly exposed seed is what you want after its cracked, then if it needs dirt or soil later as it grows be sure and keep an eye out since the seedling is closer to the top of the soil mix and may dry out if not enough soil surrounds it.

(When the seedling presses upwards and cracks the soil, I usually take a sterile water bottle and very cautiously lightly re-dampen the soil surrounding it so that it doesnt dry out, the general soil surrounding the seedling should be only moderately damp after watering etc.)

When I'm done planting a seedling there is just a slight tiny bulge where the seedling is above the surrounding soil, this allows for me to see cracks in the soil and to know that movement is occurring below the surface more quickly, and accordingly take action if necessary to help the seedling along, or if any problems are visible ect.

But the same goes for the soil the seedling is growing in, it ideally needs some organic matter mixed in and perlite and areas for air pockets to exist within the soil, which is why earthworms also can aid in growing plants also, organic matter can help add oxygenation to the soil as well as wicking water downwards when watering, and organic mater provides a light fertilization to the soil as well, we want the soil to be malleable in order for the early roots be to grow into their surrounding area quickly, lighter less compacted soil speeds this process as well as it helps keep the soil from getting water logged and to where it will not release moisture quick enough for ideal growth (In simple terms, your plants do not want thick sludgy soil, plants interact with air and oxygenation more than most give them credit for, as well as carbon dioxide co2 and it's absorption by a plants roots, not just it's leaves....).

Cheers.

 

[inDC4now]

* * * Do you know a better full proof method of successfully germinating / starting seedlings ??? * * *

Bottom line? It seems there are NO full proof methods but there are several really good methods that have a few things in common:

not too cold
not too deep
not too wet

I had hassles too. The key for me was recognizing the "not too wet" part. Backing off the water has relaxed me and my seedlings too. Win-win.

My preferred method is rapid rooters in a rooting tray with dome and heating pad. I soak the rapid rooters in warm water with a drop of "rapid start" and then squeeze the water out of the rapid rooters before placing them in the tray, so most of the water they were holding was squeezed out. There is no water in the tray bottom. I add the seed, drop it into the plug, point down typically 1/4-inch to 3/8-inch, water the plug by hand, and just a few drops a time.

Same thing later when I transplant into solo cups or hydro when it comes to watering. No water directly onto the rapid rooter. I water the media around the plug and let the plug wick the water to the seedling. Once they are transplanted to one gallon pots how moist the plug is doesn't seem to matter anymore.

 

[BurnzyBurnz]

Bottom line? It seems there are NO full proof methods but there are several really good methods that have a few things in common:

not too cold
not too deep
not too wet

I had hassles too. The key for me was recognizing the "not too wet" part. Backing off the water has relaxed me and my seedlings too. Win-win.

My preferred method is rapid rooters in a rooting tray with dome and heating pad. I soak the rapid rooters in warm water with a drop of "rapid start" and then squeeze the water out of the rapid rooters before placing them in the tray, so most of the water they were holding was squeezed out. There is no water in the tray bottom. I add the seed, drop it into the plug, point down typically 1/4-inch to 3/8-inch, water the plug by hand, and just a few drops a time.

Same thing later when I transplant into solo cups or hydro when it comes to watering. No water directly onto the rapid rooter. I water the media around the plug and let the plug wick the water to the seedling. Once they are transplanted to one gallon pots how moist the plug is doesn't seem to matter anymore.

Great advice thanks