Going to try LED lighting again... Recommendations?

Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
What would your dream light consist of and cost me (built) f you could build a light to get the most out of a 4 x 4 area from the top, best quality parts and free reign to make it bad ass. It needs to run on 240 V. Flowering optimized spectrum.

How many watts would it draw? You think it could actually yield better? That would be awesome if I could use roughly the same wattage, make less heat and result in larger harvests.

How reliable would I expect it to be?

I might be game to buy one and test it, buy 11 more if it proves it's worth.

Now as far as side lighting, I aim to light about 2' high x 4" foot wide sections of "side canopy". I assume something can be built for this use for about half the price of the 4 x 4 over head light?

I am interested in the idea of higher yields.
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
4x4 you are looking at about 500 to 600W quality LED like Samsung type F gen 3 or that in that league.

This could be as simple as 1 driver and 6 x 4' LED strips. Or you could use multiple smaller format strips.

There are as many takes on how to build lights as there are arseholes on a bus.
Decide on a budget, and let's see what underpants gets thrown into the ring for you.
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
What would your dream light consist of and cost me (built) f you could build a light to get the most out of a 4 x 4 area from the top, best quality parts and free reign to make it bad ass. It needs to run on 240 V. Flowering optimized spectrum.
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that 16 cob light i mentioned, 3500k 90 cri luminus cxm22

Renfro said:
How many watts would it draw?
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it would be dimmable. max wattage could be as high as 1200W. can be dimmed to 120W. the more you dim it, the more efficient it gets

Renfro said:
You think it could actually yield better?
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on a grams per watt basis definitely. on a max grams per square foot basis would probably be the same. unless youre doing super training and defoliating youre probably getting to the limit already with your setup

Renfro said:
That would be awesome if I could use roughly the same wattage, make less heat and result in larger harvests.
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you could have all 3 you just have to expand your space a bit

Renfro said:
How reliable would I expect it to be?
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it will outlast the cannabis market ;)
but seriously 5-10 years+ with no maintenance at which point you could throw newer more efficient chips in just to do it

Renfro said:
Now as far as side lighting, I aim to light about 2' high x 4" foot wide sections of "side canopy". I assume something can be built for this use for about half the price of the 4 x 4 over head light?
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depends on your layout. if you have the space the same style rig could be used to sidelight at increased distance and cob spacing
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
I am definitely limited on space. Distance to the lights is going to be something to consider. I currently have about 8 to 10 inches from the side buds to bulb and an 16 - 18 inch distance on the tops. I know thats hardly ideal but I manage the heat with lots of airflow. I sometimes have to dim lights when plants get to close directly under the center of a bulb but I try to prevent that.

I am interested in this idea. something for us both to sleep on. perhaps come up with a cost for the build should you be inclined to take on this project.
 
oldbeancounter

oldbeancounter

Well-Known Member
Rocket Soul said:
Led is definitely worth it but theres a pretty steep learning curve. Youd need to change environment to a lot hotter due to missing infrared if your main light is led. You may need to change your nutes a bit and ph.
With your standard (up to 4# per 4x4:clap:) it would probably be quite some time before you reach the results you want. Id suggest you go about this in a little by little fashion to get the hang of it before you take the plunge. Some suggestions:
Diy: much cheaper and you would be able to get something that fits your needs, rather than fit your grow to your lights. Theres several threads here on DIY with pcb boards.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-with-quantum-boards.927159/
the same company i mentioned above, horticulture lighting group who are also on the forum. Top quality but a bit pricey in comparison to
https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-chinese-quantum-board-knock-off-builds.971560/
Some of us have been sourcing these boards from china, where some of the quatumboards where manufactured until recently. Theres a lot that can be said about buying from china, im almost certain that the quality is not the same as with hlg but for me (not in the us so i get taxes/shippment fees etc from both china and US) and many more the china way has made a lot of sense. If everything is about 3 times as cheap theres a lot of builds that make sense that wouldnt make sense using the top standard of HLG. Also they have a fair few designs not available thru HLG.
There are also other options for example ledstrips using samsung diodes or even bridgelux. They are available from digikey, arrow electronics and more. Its a good halfway solution between HLG and china boards, but require more work with framing and heatsinking.

Your situation: you mentioned using side lighting. This might be the perfect place to start. These pcbs and strips can be setup so you can get them in right close to the side cannopy. What lights are you using now for side light?
Another way you could go would be trying to make a board/strip design using www.cutter.com.au. they have some similar designs to HLG but with added benefits of special spectrum control and such. Look up solskin on the forum or their web. If you wanted to buy a board where you could design it so you have UV/infrared/bloomboster reds etc on separate controls this could be a good option. They/Mark are on the forum as Welight. If you get a hang of things on one board you could later scale up easily.

Hw2 also has a great suggestion in Amare, but i can honestly not say ive seen someone pull 4# from a 4x4 with any of amares products.
Oh, yeah and there is also chilled growlights and if you havent seen it yet maybe check out growmau5 on youtube he has plenty of vids on diy and works for chilled nowadays.
Hope you find something u like
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Wondered temp and humidity during veg and flower you suggest for QB set up.
I have tried to follow the VPD chart and it does help just hard to know what way LED changes anything.
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
oldbeancounter said:
Wondered temp and humidity during veg and flower you suggest for QB set up.
I have tried to follow the VPD chart and it does help just hard to know what way LED changes anything.
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There is several vpd charts floating about, this is the one i like most:
http://opennlabs.com/vpd/VPD_calculator.php

It gives you options of higher and lower leaf temp compared to ambient. So you can use it for hps (+3 to +4) or led (-2 to 0).
In the end no chart can tell you what your plants want, its quite individual, strain dependent, depends on light levels etc bla bla.
But the charts can tell you what direction to take your environment if you see problems.
The "cal-mag"- deficiency many quote happening to new led growers is usually releated to enviroment, missing calcium and mag due to poor transpiration rates and some times you might need to raise your PH to get C and Mg more available.

Tldr: usually the plants are happy at 80-84F if you have the right humidity.
 
RORSN

RORSN

Well-Known Member
looking to buy from cobkits but can't get them to answer an email from me.
so Renfro sent your email to the COB black hole.
-
RORSN
 
oldbeancounter

oldbeancounter

Well-Known Member
Rocket Soul said:
There is several vpd charts floating about, this is the one i like most:
http://opennlabs.com/vpd/VPD_calculator.php

It gives you options of higher and lower leaf temp compared to ambient. So you can use it for hps (+3 to +4) or led (-2 to 0).
In the end no chart can tell you what your plants want, its quite individual, strain dependent, depends on light levels etc bla bla.
But the charts can tell you what direction to take your environment if you see problems.
The "cal-mag"- deficiency many quote happening to new led growers is usually releated to enviroment, missing calcium and mag due to poor transpiration rates and some times you might need to raise your PH to get C and Mg more available.

Tldr: usually the plants are happy at 80-84F if you have the right humidity.
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great info, thank ya kindly...what temp on top on canopy during veg/flower do you aim for?
I can already see a difference following that chart.
I have no growing experience ...for this at least.
So far things are going ok, just hope to keep it that way.
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
It really depends on your strain and amount of light, watering and nutes, theres not a catch all scenarios number. The VPD chart can give you an idea of where to take your environment if your plants arent looking happy. But its not a done deal, follow the chart, presto: buds!
It also depends on how hard you like to vegg, how fast you want them to grow.
Generally, plants respond well to increasing the heat (higher metabolism and more transpiration) up to a point where it doesnt hehelp anymore. Wheres that point? Usually somewhere over 84F. But maintaining 84 and high humidity in veg can be quite hard.
Its better to try to understand the charts as a map to get your plants to drink water and nutes. The higher the temp, the more narrow the good section becomes and the easier it gets to fall outside. But the higher the temp the more they will grow (up to that point).
So you have to sorta find a compromise, what environment is good for my plants but also good for me as a grower cause i can maintain it easily?



But in the end only your plants can tell you what they like
 
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Rahz

Rahz

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
Cost of the lights is not an issue.

So, what LED fixtures out there, that will work in my setup, are the cream of the crop for flowering cannabis?
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The absolute best lamp would be one you DIY. I'd consider an array of Vero 29Cs (3000K 90CRI) running at 500ma. 22 of them over a 4x4 would operate at about 750w drivers included and provide 445 par watts, more output than you can get from a 1000w DE.
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
IMG_20180121_115408s - Copy.jpg
Renfro said:
Nice man. Hey is that just aluminum channel you have the LED's mounted on? Does that provide enough heatsink capacity?
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more than enough, I use a slightly wider channel, but it is not commonly available.
 
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