Incandescent is the perfect complement to led?

[Halfandhalf]

So this might seem a little bit crazy but I recently added a 75w incandescent to my 75w 5000k vero 29 veg tent and it was an amazing transformation for my plants. My new Jack Herrer from seed had been growing short and stocky under my led which with that spectrum is to be expected, but I was also getting signs of magnesium deficiencies that I'd been getting even in my other tent with 3000k 90 cri vero's. Slight mottling on leaves and reddish stems... My temps were also low at 70F. Adding the incandescent raised my temps to 75F and the plant started changing to the new added spectrum. The red stems are gone, the leaves are lightened up and a more balanced color, it's stretching a bit but not too much and in general just looks healthier than even when I veged under my 3000k's in previous grows. It doesn't put out a ton of light but what it does put out is very high in the red spectrum and the added IR may promote stretching but it also brings up leaf temperature.

It just seems that adding incandescent can go a long way to complementing led's shortcomings without breaking the bank. They have a bit too much IR for my liking (which makes the wattage a bit inefficient) so maybe getting red/far red led is better but I'm gonna give it a go on this grow. I'm switching the plant over into my other tent with the 3000k's soon so I'll see what affect it has on them there. It just seems like an incredibly smooth spectrum that is adding to the health of my plants. I'm also growing basil, kale, aloe, and soon sweet pepper, hot pepper and a few others and the morphology of the first three is already looking more natural. Of course using something in between for those plants like a 4000k or 3500k could get most of the same results as far as leaf size/color, the heat and IR still wouldn't be there and the incandescent adds almost a perfect amount of red to my 5000k's.

 

[ttystikk]

So you added a heater.

Suppose you might get similar results if you just raised your temps by 5-10 degrees?

After all, you only pay for insulation once.

 

[Halfandhalf]

No it's not just heat... a lot of red in that spectrum and the IR should theoretically increase leaf temps over ambient (haven't actually measured it), decreasing the need to raise temps as high as most people do with leds.

 

[crimsonecho]

This is not a claim to be taken seriously unless you had a dialed in environment with healthy plants and some sort of control at least. Your setup and methodology is flawed. No offense but science dictates this, not me.

 

[Halfandhalf]

This is not a claim to be taken seriously unless you had a dialed in environment with healthy plants and some sort of control at least. Your setup and methodology is flawed. No offense but science dictates this, not me.

I completely agree. This is far from scientific. Just some observations that I wanted to share and will also be doing more testing on. When I have more lights I can do split runs with and without incandescent and also red/far red monos compared to supplemental incandescent. Also would be nice to measure leaf temparature which I can't do currently. Until then I just wanted to pique some peoples curiosities as it did mine. I suspect red/far red monos will have a similar affect but for now it seems to be doing what I need.

 

[crimsonecho]

I completely agree. This is far from scientific. Just some observations that I wanted to share and will also be doing more testing on. When I have more lights I can do split runs with and without incandescent and also red/far red monos compared to supplemental incandescent. Also would be nice to measure leaf temparature which I can't do currently. Until then I just wanted to pique some peoples curiosities as it did mine. I suspect red/far red monos will have a similar affect but for now it seems to be doing what I need.

Well its my understanding that going wth leds is especially for the pursuit of eliminating waste. Now you may not see ir as waste, i don’t see it either but if you are going to add ir to your leds why not go with hps from the get go.
The savings off the leds and all that 500w replaces 1000w hps stuff is partly due to the fact that it doesn’t emit ir, fr, uv (besides great efficiency). When you apply 1000w to an hid bulb it emits these in different ratios, which would classify in the plants eyes as unusable.
These have morphological benefits i’m aware but they’re also not photosynthetically active. Thats why adding a 100w incandesent to 100w led just defeats the purpose of leds imo. The little morphological benefits could be achieved by using much lower wattages and specific led diodes. Or with an hid bulb.
Thats just my angle.

 

[OneHitDone]

The savings off the leds and all that 500w replaces 1000w hps stuff is partly due to the fact that it doesn’t emit ir, fr, uv (besides great efficiency). When you apply 1000w to an hid bulb it emits these in different ratios, which would classify in the plants eyes as unusable.
These have morphological benefits i’m aware but they’re also not photosynthetically active. .

 

[Rocket Soul]

So you added a heater.

Suppose you might get similar results if you just raised your temps by 5-10 degrees?

After all, you only pay for insulation once.

Has this been shown to be true? Does raising the leaf temp by heating the environment and heating the leaf with IR give the exact same result? Im not so sure and im betting the IR (850 nm) has positive effects beyond the heat.

 

[crimsonecho]

Good recap on the video. I agree with all these points. But as i said its not photosynthetically active, so it does not make much sense to me to jump directly to fr but i still understand that its a choice and i respect that.
Still you dont need 100w to 100w, thats just wasteful. He uses a little (20w probably) led bulb under 315 cmh(?). He refers to the light as cmh so probably right? So a very minimal ratio. Plus i like my plants short and bushy. Its all a matter of choice in the end.
My argument that adding ir or fr is wasteful is based on photosynthetic activity rather than phytochromatic activity. As i said there are morphological benefits but it is not used in photosynthesis directly as far as i know and normally, even standard cree cobs provide some amount of far red.

https://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/ds-CXB1830.pdf

So all in all, i’ll say, yes it is good and has benefits, just like a little bit of uv but just a fraction of your total power should be fr or you’ll get plants that are too lanky and weak because the plant will think its in a shady spot and will try to grow constantly.
A better way would be, imo, to just using it at sunset and sunrise to inhibit excessive stretch.

 

[CobKits]

you only pay for insulation once.

my man!

im TOTALLY stealing that