Why spend $$$ on a flowering lamp if you have a $ veg lamp?

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
No mate, @CobKits is stating the obvious: vegged plants don't produce buds. Buds are what pay the rent (and power bill).

Your suggestion to spend more money on veg lights than flowering lights is a bit like telling a drag racer to spend more money on paint instead of sticky tyres or engine mods.

Plants flower, on average, for eight weeks - plenty of time to take clones and veg for the next round.

Most flowering chambers - as already pointed out - consume far more power than veg chambers.

24 hours in veg is not the most efficient use of light, either - look it up.

Note: no-one is disagreeing with you that LEDs are a better alternative to CFLs, but the best bang for buck is always going to be in improvements in flowering, not veg.
Excuse me, but if you have a veg area, you NEED to put a lamp over the plants. It's not an accessory. Your analogy is bad and you know it. Both a veg lamp and a flowering lamp use energy. People don't have a veg area for decoration as you suggest... It's part of producing buds or nobody would have a veg area.

Bottom line is that you get double the value out of a veg lamp just because it runs for twice as long. What's there not to get about this? It's clearly the low hanging fruit, not the flowering lamp.

There's no point of upgrading your flowering lamp if you still have a shitty veg lamp. It just shows that savings isn't your goal, being cool and using LEDs is.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
See my comment about paying off higher interest loans first even if the loan is "too small to matter". You pay it off first, period, or you have no financial sense at all.

A veg lamp gets twice as much utility as a flowering lamp, thus for every watt you buy, you get double the value for your initial investment. Obviously you should upgrade this first.
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
For example, lets say you have a 600W HPS lamp in flowering and 100W of CFL in veg. They both operate every day, flowering for 12 hours a day and veg for 24 hours a day.

Assume it costs 1 dollar/W for a 50% efficient lamp to make the numbers easier. This is what you're upgrading to.

Upgrading veg first:

In order to replace the 100W CFL (assuming ~22% efficiency), you'd need a 44W lamp. You now save 56W in power for 24 hours a day. That's 1344W*h saved per day for an initial cost of 44 dollars. You're saving 30.5W*h a day for every dollar spent upgrading.


Upgrading flowering first:

In order to replace the 600W HPS (assuming ~35% efficiency), you'd need a 420W lamp. You now save 180W in power for 12 hours a day. That's 2160W*h saved per day for an initial cost of 420 dollars. You're saving 5.1W*h a day for every dollar spent upgrading.
 

WeedSexWeightsShakes

Well-Known Member
For example, lets say you have a 600W HPS lamp in flowering and 100W of CFL in veg. They both operate every day, flowering for 12 hours a day and veg for 24 hours a day.

Assume it costs 1 dollar/W for a 50% efficient lamp to make the numbers easier. This is what you're upgrading to.

Upgrading veg first:

In order to replace the 100W CFL (assuming ~22% efficiency), you'd need a 44W lamp. You now save 56W in power for 24 hours a day. That's 1344W*h saved per day for an initial cost of 44 dollars. You're saving 30.5W*h a day for every dollar spent upgrading.


Upgrading flowering first:

In order to replace the 600W HPS (assuming ~35% efficiency), you'd need a 420W lamp. You now save 180W in power for 12 hours a day. That's 2160W*h saved per day for an initial cost of 420 dollars. You're saving 5.1W*h a day for every dollar spent upgrading.
This whole thread is under the assumption that you use cfl for veg...
 

doctordetroit

Well-Known Member
That means you have to use a more powerful lamp (more expensive) to get the same DLI as a weaker (cheaper) lamp that's on for 18 to 24 hours a day.
I think I have the cheapest lights anyone on this site is running lol DIY dollar store LED Screw in light bulb chips mounted on old cake pans. Im not knocking you for your thought process just puting it out there.
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
I think I have the cheapest lights anyone on this site is running lol DIY dollar store LED Screw in light bulb chips mounted on old cake pans. Im not knocking you for your thought process just puting it out there.
The whole point is that people are spending tons of money upgrading flowering with expensive LEDs while using shitty lamps in veg. If you're not doing that, it doesn't apply to you.
 

doctordetroit

Well-Known Member
Right i get what your saying about power cost and agree it would be better to upgrade veg before flower but I think in general most are just going to worry about the flower as thats when it really matters and/or are running more then a casual grow and are not spending much time in veg that its really not a concern vs cash needed to upgrade. We are almost at the point of going straight 12-12 from clone with a 2 week havest between each set. All thats getting run is a t8 shop light 24 on over the humidity domes and the rest are diy led on 12-12.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
See my comment about paying off higher interest loans first even if the loan is "too small to matter". You pay it off first, period, or you have no financial sense at all.

A veg lamp gets twice as much utility as a flowering lamp, thus for every watt you buy, you get double the value for your initial investment. Obviously you should upgrade this first.
I'm glad you're not my financial adviser. Let me deconstruct it for you:

1st Assumption - everyone vegs under CFLs or fluoros, and not under HIDs (metal halide etc)

2nd Assumption - everyone vegs 24 hours on - which, if you know anything about photosynthesis, is a waste of energy

3rd Assumption - everyone has a separate veg chamber and doesn't veg and flower under the same light

4th Assumption - the cost of LED and drivers is linear. It is not. The best value is in buying the biggest lights and drivers (hint: flowering lights)

But I'll humour your argument anyway.

By your own admission, you save 1344Wh in veg vs 2160Wh in flower - that's a 61% advantage to upgrading your flowering light each and every day for the next however many years you use it.

Add to that, the flowering light is producing BUDs - bigger flowering lights nearly always = bigger bud yields. Veg lights and time are always limited to flowering space and light.

It doesn't matter how big or efficient your veg light is - if you don't have a flowering light (and space) to support it, that light and energy are wasted.

Now let's get back to the real world . . .

Most of us run 18/6 or 20/4 in veg (the fastest veg cycle I have used is 11/1). Veg times are nearly always a percentage of flowering times. For example, an eight-week flowering plant usually needs only three-four weeks of veg (less in hydro) - depending on how many plants you flower, in what space and under whatever light.

So your maths is already skewed.

Finally, it never ceases to amaze me that some people agonise over saving a few $ on lights.

How much does an ounce of weed cost?

Just spend the money on flowering lights: the increase in yield will likely pay for the lights in the first grow.

Then on the next grow you can put the money towards a better veg light.

I'm sorry, but if what you said was true, we would all be doing it. But we're not - for good reason.

And yes, I was being facetious about painting your drag car instead of upgrading your engine. But only just.

After all, you drag car isn't going anywhere without an engine, and your plants aren't going to produce buds unless they are flowered.

Flowering lights pay for themselves in yield - veg lights, not so much (to put it charitably).
 

Old Thcool

Well-Known Member
One of the best things I've done since switching to led was replace my 480w T-5's w/ 100w of strips. In veg. As well as when I use sidelights.
Although considering using the small 200w t-5 I still have stored away to add some heat to the winter veg. Making me sortve wish i still had the big one cuz averaging 66-68 now is cold.
My biggest issue now is RH. I use a wood stove to heat my house. Interior of BC is pretty dry. However we get lots of snow!
 

Old Thcool

Well-Known Member
I'm glad you're not my financial adviser. Let me deconstruct it for you:

1st Assumption - everyone vegs under CFLs or fluoros, and not under HIDs (metal halide etc)

2nd Assumption - everyone vegs 24 hours on - which, if you know anything about photosynthesis, is a waste of energy

3rd Assumption - everyone has a separate veg chamber and doesn't veg and flower under the same light

4th Assumption - the cost of LED and drivers is linear. It is not. The best value is in buying the biggest lights and drivers (hint: flowering lights)

But I'll humour your argument anyway.

By your own admission, you save 1344Wh in veg vs 2160Wh in flower - that's a 61% advantage to upgrading your flowering light each and every day for the next however many years you use it.

Add to that, the flowering light is producing BUDs - bigger flowering lights nearly always = bigger bud yields. Veg lights and time are always limited to flowering space and light.

It doesn't matter how big or efficient your veg light is - if you don't have a flowering light (and space) to support it, that light and energy are wasted.

Now let's get back to the real world . . .

Most of us run 18/6 or 20/4 in veg (the fastest veg cycle I have used is 11/1). Veg times are nearly always a percentage of flowering times. For example, an eight-week flowering plant usually needs only three-four weeks of veg (less in hydro) - depending on how many plants you flower, in what space and under whatever light.

So your maths is already skewed.

Finally, it never ceases to amaze me that some people agonise over saving a few $ on lights.

How much does an ounce of weed cost?

Just spend the money on flowering lights: the increase in yield will likely pay for the lights in the first grow.

Then on the next grow you can put the money towards a better veg light.

I'm sorry, but if what you said was true, we would all be doing it. But we're not - for good reason.

And yes, I was being facetious about painting your drag car instead of upgrading your engine. But only just.

After all, you drag car isn't going anywhere without an engine, and your plants aren't going to produce buds unless they are flowered.

Flowering lights pay for themselves in yield - veg lights, not so much (to put it charitably).
Hey, correct me if I’m wrong here- you can use damn near any light to flower but you just won’t get the volume or terpines.
So using his argument, I would actually benefit by buying a veg light because I plan to veg all winter and flower in a greenhouse throughout the summer. But what is a veg light? The can all veg, a cheap one won’t veg as well as a good one? I want big healthy plants, I need a light that grow more than a 2 foot plant!
 

Old Thcool

Well-Known Member
Why wouldn’t you buy a light that can do both? Buy 2 ? One in each room or tent. If the light can do both you can use either tent for veg or bud take your pick.
My thing is this, if you wanna play you gotta pay. You can pay lots and buy em ore made or you can pay less and make em yer self either way you pay.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I'm not being rude, but
Hey, correct me if I’m wrong here- you can use damn near any light to flower but you just won’t get the volume or terpines.
So using his argument, I would actually benefit by buying a veg light because I plan to veg all winter and flower in a greenhouse throughout the summer. But what is a veg light? The can all veg, a cheap one won’t veg as well as a good one? I want big healthy plants, I need a light that grow more than a 2 foot plant!
So you want big, healthy plants but believe you can flower under "damn near any light" . . . OK. Good luck.
 

CannaBruh

Well-Known Member
I'd veg under a 5000K strip build with no qualms about it. My bloom room has them as supplement but mostly run 3500K

They both can work in either scenario really well, veg light in bloom room or bloom light in veg room.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
2nd Assumption - everyone vegs 24 hours on - which, if you know anything about photosynthesis, is a waste of energy
how so? cannabis is a C3 plant and doesn't need a dark period during veg.

any time you don't have lights on, you aren't photosynthesizing. they only stretch during the dark period.

and you get much tighter node spacing with 24/0 and all in all, a shorter veg time. and it's easier to keep temps/RH constant too.
 
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