What is wrong with this blooming plant?

[mixchemical]

Hey all,

Having some issues with my current grow. Running a DWC system with 13 gall. buckets, light is on 12h and off 12h. 380W LED is the sun.

Using GHE nutes (micro, gro and bloom) and keeping the pH as stable as I can at around 5.8

The ppm was 460 (both buckets) but that seemed to be too high since the pH was dropping very fast (down below 5.4 in a few hours. So today I emptied out around 4 gallons and just added fresh water, getting the ppm down to around 360. pH'ed it to 5.8 again.

Keeping the temps at around 75F and water temp at around 69-70F. RH is at a stable 60% all the time.

The issue is the undergrowth is dying, even though I do have light penetration down there. I know that the nutes are being focused to the top and the buds but is this normal?


Also, the top leaves at the buds are showing strange symptoms, blackening, yellowing and brown spots a bit here and there. I've had issues where I overdosed cal/mag which gave me issues but that has since stopped but since about 1 week ago, I have been noticing these issues.

Anybody got an idea to point me in the right direction? Cant seem to pin point it myself.

 

[hotrodharley]

Hey all,

Having some issues with my current grow. Running a DWC system with 13 gall. buckets, light is on 12h and off 12h. 380W LED is the sun.

Using GHE nutes (micro, gro and bloom) and keeping the pH as stable as I can at around 5.8

The ppm was 460 (both buckets) but that seemed to be too high since the pH was dropping very fast (down below 5.4 in a few hours. So today I emptied out around 4 gallons and just added fresh water, getting the ppm down to around 360. pH'ed it to 5.8 again.

Keeping the temps at around 75F and water temp at around 69-70F. RH is at a stable 60% all the time.

The issue is the undergrowth is dying, even though I do have light penetration down there. I know that the nutes are being focused to the top and the buds but is this normal?
View attachment 4235098

Also, the top leaves at the buds are showing strange symptoms, blackening, yellowing and brown spots a bit here and there. I've had issues where I overdosed cal/mag which gave me issues but that has since stopped but since about 1 week ago, I have been noticing these issues.
View attachment 4235097
Anybody got an idea to point me in the right direction? Cant seem to pin point it myself.

Check your roots.

 

[mixchemical]

Check your roots.

Yep - almost all white, not brown/black etc. The discoloration is probably due to the micro nutes being a dark sludge.

Was I supposed to see anything else?

 

[hotrodharley]

View attachment 4235118 View attachment 4235120

Yep - almost all white, not brown/black etc. The discoloration is probably due to the micro nutes being a dark sludge.

Was I supposed to see anything else?

pH swings are the key indicator for root issues. As to PPM you're not out or over. Starting is around 350.

 

[mixchemical]

pH swings are the key indicator for root issues. As to PPM you're not out or over. Starting is around 350.

Well, it's not swinging as in going up or down. The ppm is going up and pH is going down. From what I find logical, that means the total amount of water is going down and the nutes are not being taken by the plants in the same rate, making the pH lower.

Also, about ppm. I've heard a lot of people saying "oh 1000ppm is normal for end of bloom" but i've never ever even gotten close to that without burning the crap out of the plants.

But, if it's something to do with the roots. How can I diagnose that? Roots are almost 100% white, water was changed last thursday (a complete change, 13 gallons). Temps in the tent are not high neither the water temp is off.

 

[hotrodharley]

PPM is expected to drop. But pH should remain relatively stable. Some shift in pH is expected and normal as water and nutes are absorbed.

https://www.maximumyield.com/perfecting-ph/2/

See if this helps.

 

[hotrodharley]

By the way how high is that light over the problem area? Not the temperature but height. As to PPM in flower I've run as high as 1500 before rolling back to around 900 by mid-flower. Your PPM is crazy low. What is the PPM of your water?

 

[70's natureboy]

Try not PH ing it. I almost never PH GH nutes. When I do, the PH seems to drop way down the next day, like a delayed reaction.

 

[mixchemical]

PPM is expected to drop. But pH should remain relatively stable. Some shift in pH is expected and normal as water and nutes are absorbed.

https://www.maximumyield.com/perfecting-ph/2/

See if this helps.

Isnt pH and ppm connected? If one drops, the other must rise? But yes, in a perfect dosage the pH and ppm should cancel each other out when absorbed at the same rate.

By the way how high is that light over the problem area? Not the temperature but height. As to PPM in flower I've run as high as 1500 before rolling back to around 900 by mid-flower. Your PPM is crazy low. What is the PPM of your water?

Oh, as high as I can make it. This whole grow was a mess from the start but i Would guess about 10 inches or so. No signs of light burn or any of those issues tho. The undergrowth is about 35 inches from the light.

The ppm of my tapwater is about 100ppm. So that makes it around 260ppm just nutes (excl. the minerals in the tapwater). My wife has been running on the very safe side on all her grows and she has not had any problems, never had a sign of deficiency at all - that's why im so curious when you guys are up at the 1000 ppm marks and there abouts, I got a lot of nute burn when I was at the ~550ppm a couple of weeks ago.

Try not PH ing it. I almost never PH GH nutes. When I do, the PH seems to drop way down the next day, like a delayed reaction.

Really? When i pH down it on monday then measure on tuesday, the pH has gone up waaay up from what I dosed it down to the previous day. Not had that experience at all tbh.

 

[hotrodharley]

Isnt pH and ppm connected? If one drops, the other must rise? But yes, in a perfect dosage the pH and ppm should cancel each other out when absorbed at the same rate.



Oh, as high as I can make it. This whole grow was a mess from the start but i Would guess about 10 inches or so. No signs of light burn or any of those issues tho. The undergrowth is about 35 inches from the light.

The ppm of my tapwater is about 100ppm. So that makes it around 260ppm just nutes (excl. the minerals in the tapwater). My wife has been running on the very safe side on all her grows and she has not had any problems, never had a sign of deficiency at all - that's why im so curious when you guys are up at the 1000 ppm marks and there abouts, I got a lot of nute burn when I was at the ~550ppm a couple of weeks ago.



Really? When i pH down it on monday then measure on tuesday, the pH has gone up waaay up from what I dosed it down to the previous day. Not had that experience at all tbh.

Try what he suggests. What have you got to lose. Is your wife doing hydro as well?

 

[70's natureboy]

Isnt pH and ppm connected? If one drops, the other must rise? But yes, in a perfect dosage the pH and ppm should cancel each other out when absorbed at the same rate.



Oh, as high as I can make it. This whole grow was a mess from the start but i Would guess about 10 inches or so. No signs of light burn or any of those issues tho. The undergrowth is about 35 inches from the light.

The ppm of my tapwater is about 100ppm. So that makes it around 260ppm just nutes (excl. the minerals in the tapwater). My wife has been running on the very safe side on all her grows and she has not had any problems, never had a sign of deficiency at all - that's why im so curious when you guys are up at the 1000 ppm marks and there abouts, I got a lot of nute burn when I was at the ~550ppm a couple of weeks ago.



Really? When i pH down it on monday then measure on tuesday, the pH has gone up waaay up from what I dosed it down to the previous day. Not had that experience at all tbh.

Well, your first post said the ph was dropping so that's what I assumed. Dam your 100 ppm water must have a lot of lime in it or something. My water is 220 ppm and when I mix any of my nutes the ph ends up in the 5-6 range where i like it. I'm not even that exact with it. I get it close enough and let it drift around and the girls seem happy enough. You may be chasing a ph meter problem.

 

[mixchemical]

Try what he suggests. What have you got to lose. Is your wife doing hydro as well?

Yes, running same equipment, nutes, buckets etc. All that's different is the strain, which could be a huge difference in itself anyways. But guess you're right.

Well, your first post said the ph was dropping so that's what I assumed. Dam your 100 ppm water must have a lot of lime in it or something. My water is 220 ppm and when I mix any of my nutes the ph ends up in the 5-6 range where i like it. I'm not even that exact with it. I get it close enough and let it drift around and the girls seem happy enough. You may be chasing a ph meter problem.

The info I got from our local info center regarding water is this: pH ~8.0, alkalinity 60 mg HCO3/l. Not from the US but I dont think they put anything in the water, but not sure at all tbh. I usually do the same you do, get it close and let it drift a bit. Just got a new pair of EC meters and pH meter from HM digital, I usually calibrate the pH meter every 2 weeks depending on the usage and measurements I get from it.

 

[polishpollack]

Mix, are you sure it was nute burn you were getting at 500 ppm? You have to diagnose the problems properly to know what the cause is and the solution. 500 is pretty low unless your meter is off. If so, then you have no clue what's happening. Also, 13 gallons is pretty big for dwc. Are you seeing any slime in the water or on the roots? This might help.

 

[mixchemical]

Mix, are you sure it was nute burn you were getting at 500 ppm? You have to diagnose the problems properly to know what the cause is and the solution. 500 is pretty low unless your meter is off. If so, then you have no clue what's happening. Also, 13 gallons is pretty big for dwc. Are you seeing any slime in the water or on the roots? This might help.

Thanks for the video tip, will watch it later.

Yep, pretty sure. Had the ppm at around 600 a couple of weeks ago and the pH would plummet so bad I had to dosage pH very often, tips of leaves would turn brown and further on, the edges and basically turn into crisp paper. I've always ran my grows with low ppms and had no trouble with it, but running higher seems to give me a lot of issues. Yes, I do mix the nutes in order, Micro first followed by gro and then bloom - making sure to mix them in the bucket well before adding others. I usually also wait about 30 min before checking pH so everything has a moment to stabilize.

No slime or buildup on roots or bucket. Well, there's a very very thin line or residue but I think that just goes with it when the water level drops. No algae or anything strange at all.

Sure, 13 gallons is pretty big, I ran a lot smaller and thought basically if the plants have more room, they can grow bigger and as a consequence have the chance to produce more buds. Since i'm only growin 2 plants or so per year, I thought I would try it out.

 

[70's natureboy]

PH is going down, PH is going up, you lost me. A lot of ppm meters read on the .5 scale indicating half of your ppm's. Your 500 ppm's may actually be 1000 ppms.

 

[mixchemical]

PH is going down, PH is going up, you lost me. A lot of ppm meters read on the .5 scale indicating half of your ppm's. Your 500 ppm's may actually be 1000 ppms.

Sorry, will try to explain better.

A couple of weeks ago, I tried upping the ppm's to around 600. The result was an almost free fall of the pH value which forced me to put in pH up quite often to "combat" this. The situation i'm in now, however, is that the pH is falling, steadily, while the ppm is standing still (basically) - or rather, they're not moving as a unit.

Also, my meter - the HM digital com-80 can display the ppm with 0.5 or 0.7, i've been using the 0.5ppm scale. But maybe here is where i'm a noob - what does that give me as a "real" value. Since i've always though that it shows me XYZ ppm and that's it, but now it appears i've been very very wrong. What should I use to give an accurate measurement since if, as you claim, that my ppm value @ 0.5 NaCl scale is more than it shows, how can i dose accurately?

I watched that video and got me thinking. I'm using pH down in a powder form and just dumping a little bit at a time (of the powder) right into my bucket. Since I never turn of my airpump, I've always thought that this is okay since it wont have any chance of forming a layer on the bottom. But is there any reason to dilute it beforehand and if so, what ratio is good enough for it to still have enough strength to lower the pH of around 13 gallons.

 

[godboss]

Hey all,

Having some issues with my current grow. Running a DWC system with 13 gall. buckets, light is on 12h and off 12h. 380W LED is the sun.

Using GHE nutes (micro, gro and bloom) and keeping the pH as stable as I can at around 5.8

The ppm was 460 (both buckets) but that seemed to be too high since the pH was dropping very fast (down below 5.4 in a few hours. So today I emptied out around 4 gallons and just added fresh water, getting the ppm down to around 360. pH'ed it to 5.8 again.

Keeping the temps at around 75F and water temp at around 69-70F. RH is at a stable 60% all the time.

The issue is the undergrowth is dying, even though I do have light penetration down there. I know that the nutes are being focused to the top and the buds but is this normal?
View attachment 4235098

Also, the top leaves at the buds are showing strange symptoms, blackening, yellowing and brown spots a bit here and there. I've had issues where I overdosed cal/mag which gave me issues but that has since stopped but since about 1 week ago, I have been noticing these issues.
View attachment 4235097
Anybody got an idea to point me in the right direction? Cant seem to pin point it myself.

You said.."Using GHE nutes (micro, gro and bloom) and keeping the pH as stable as I can at around 5.8"

Try raising the ph two points the plant might be in nutri lock 6.1 ought to work

 

[mixchemical]

You said.."Using GHE nutes (micro, gro and bloom) and keeping the pH as stable as I can at around 5.8"

Try raising the ph two points the plant might be in nutri lock 6.1 ought to work

Sure, might as well try right?

A little update. I measured the pH in on of the buckets, which sat at 0.8mS, and it was 5.3 this morning and now, about 8 hours later it's dropped down to 4.9. Sure that the pH drops but over 8 hours and a drop of .4 - that can't be normal. The microsiemens (mS) reading has dropped to 0.7, however, if that is 0.79 or 0.71 - I dont know.

The other bucket seems to be a bit more stable. The mS reading is 0.8 and the pH has been dropping, very slowly though, and is sitting at 5.4 both this morning and now when I arrived back from work.

I've read a bit about the "lucas formula/ratio" and was a bit intrigued but seeing as one of my plants is sitting about 0.8mS, which seems to be not that very high, doesn't give me any hope in that a change of nutrient ratio and amount will be for the better.

I'm really stuck here now - any suggestions on what I could do next?

 

[Beachwalker]

Check & calibrate your pH meter recently?

 

[mixchemical]

Check & calibrate your pH meter recently?

Bought it new a week ago, I calibrate every 2nd week. I re-calibrated it yesterday just to make sure the meter isnt an issue.