jayblaze710
Well-Known Member
He has no idea what he’s talking about.
In House Genetics Thread
- Thread starter amgprb
- Start date
Tangerine_
Well-Known Member
In House really hooked it up with free packs for that Labor Day sale!
I've found some of my best plants in promo packs so rather than let them continue to build up I decided yesterday to germ a whole tray of just freebies.
Some I've had for a while but so far I've pulled out Bodhi's Black Lotus, Dankonomics Whitefire Funk, an older pack of OGR Fire Alien Strawberry, and some of those In House Platinum Candy crosses. Bound to be some fire in those.
Oh, and to keep it In House, one of my Frozen Grape seeds fizzled out...but no biggie. I'll fill that spot with something else.
Lookin good
greencropper
Well-Known Member
sounds good, i missed the Labor Day sales, but for sure there's some fire in those freebies, be more pollen chucks with them tooIn House really hooked it up with free packs for that Labor Day sale!
I've found some of my best plants in promo packs so rather than let them continue to build up I decided yesterday to germ a whole tray of just freebies.
Some I've had for a while but so far I've pulled out Bodhi's Black Lotus, Dankonomics Whitefire Funk, an older pack of OGR Fire Alien Strawberry, and some of those In House Platinum Candy crosses. Bound to be some fire in those.
Oh, and to keep it In House, one of my Frozen Grape seeds fizzled out...but no biggie. I'll fill that spot with something else.
Lookin good
bobrown14
Well-Known Member
Its science, you should read more and you will see what I am talking about. Cannabis is not some special plant that defies biology, physics and chemistry. Sheesh.
The term you use "hermie" is a play on the scientific term hermaphrodite. A true hermaphrodite cannabis plant has male and female plant organs in fairly EQUAL amounts ALL OVER the plant.
A female cannabis plant can also produce a FEW male bits, we call "nanners" or bananas. They are male bits and again A FEW male bits coming out of a female flower not a male plant organ on a female plant - that's completely different. Cannabis and all Dicots, can/will produce both of these. Nanner is more of a stress induced process (by the gardener). Hermaphrodite is genetic and should be culled.
Nanner:
Hermaphrodite:
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
I understand what your saying, survival and all, but some plants will not throw nanners, have you ever revegged a plant after chopping most of it? Not all plants throw nanners late in flower, and if you got fully developed seeds it wasn't late in flower it was during mid/early flower you could have caused it with improper environment or could be genetic. If you are consistently getting hermies/seeds that means you have unstable genetics or a shitty growing area.Its science, you should read more and you will see what I am talking about. Cannabis is not some special plant that defies biology, physics and chemistry. Sheesh.
The term you use "hermie" is a play on the scientific term hermaphrodite. A true hermaphrodite cannabis plant has male and female plant organs in fairly EQUAL amounts ALL OVER the plant.
A female cannabis plant can also produce a FEW male bits, we call "nanners" or bananas. They are male bits and again A FEW male bits coming out of a female flower not a male plant organ on a female plant - that's completely different. Cannabis and all Dicots, can/will produce both of these. Nanner is more of a stress induced process (by the gardener). Hermaphrodite is genetic and should be culled.
Nanner:
Hermaphrodite:
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
That's quite obvious from his last post, apparently he always gets nanners on his plants(and he's trying to rationalize it) which means he either has some really unstable genetics or a really shitty growing area / grower.
bobrown14
Well-Known Member
Not really... dicot is another term we use for dicotyledon.
The former idea that these 2, monocot and dicot were 2 distinctly different classes has been debunked in the late 1990s as we began to better understand genetics with the use of molecular phylogenetic research.
Monocots and dicots are now distinguished by the shape of the pollen (basically).
bobrown14
Well-Known Member
I never said I get nanners on my plants. I do sometimes due to say heat stress or light stress. It can happen say in the summer time when its oppressively hot out.
Sheesh you guys jump WAY ahead reading between the lines and make shit up in you own minds. WTF? Came here to talk about IHG gear and getting a fucktard replies of made up shit.
Now I know what I dont post here often.
IF you let your plants go long enough in flower they will thro out nanners. That is NOT genetic defect its how dicots (yes I mean dicots) in a last ditch effort try and reproduce when they haven't been pollinated. I've been growing organically many many many years. Nanners are a thing because of environmental factors. Thats not a problem crated by the breeder. It is however genetics at play. It goes way way back in history and how plants do survival.
Reading is FUNdamental.
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
i have taken plants 16 weeks + then revegged them, I'm calling bullshit, pretty sure you don't know what you're doing and your blaming it on mother nature.
bobrown14
Well-Known Member
I run 20+ week equatorial Sativa (Landrace strains), they get real finicky after 90 days. You sneeze wrong and they will throw out nanners. It's just part of nature. Just because you never got any doesn't mean squat sorry. 1 growers experience doesn't make science, me included.
Reveg... why not just take cuts. reveg is a waste of time. You only did that because you forgot to take cuts and were sorry you didn't. Wish I had a nickle for every time I said I wish I took a cut.
You don't even know me and your calling bullshit and I don't know what I'm talking about. That's original.
Since this is a IHG thread I'm going to ignore your spewtum and post something positive like some IHG eye candy.
Here's some for ya...put this in your pipe and smoke it
Dolato from spring run:
Dolato in front over head high with Devils Tit @ 120 days in the background.
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
by finicky do you mean unstable, if so then yea unstable genetics can definitely throw nanners, quality stabilized genetics won't because they were stress tested, then the outliers were eliminated and the most stable were selected than bred for those traits. If you are saying every single cannabis plant will throw nanners you are absolutely wrong, plenty of plants will die as female without ever showing a sign of male parts.
bobrown14
Well-Known Member
Why do you keep adding words that aren't said. You obviously need to be "right" not sure why.
But here a quick google is my friend. Read and weep:
"Self-fertilization occurs in bisexual organisms, including most flowering plants, numerous protozoans, and many invertebrates."
See that part up there where is says "Including MOST flowering plants". It's been a thing... you cannot breed it out. Only thru genetic modification will you remove those traits and we dont need any GMO cannabis do we? Sure you can try to breed it out but its in the genes, they don't just disappear. Those genes are there. OK??
Here's the full article link: Notice its in the science section... I think that points to actual science, just an observation.
https://www.britannica.com/science/self-fertilization
jayblaze710
Well-Known Member
Where are you getting this shit? Monocots vs dicots was certainly not “debunked” in the 90s. You keep saying dicot when you mean dioecious. Dicot plants run the whole gamut from completely monoecious with self-fertilization, monoecious without self-fertilization, and completely dioecious. Again, throwing around a few scientific terms does not mean you have any idea what the fuck you are talking about.
Side note - there are many flowering plants with complete flowers (both male and female sexual organs) that have mechanisms to prevent self-fertilization. Again, dude, take a plant biology class instead of googling and regurgitating incomplete definitions like it tells the whole story.
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macsnax
Well-Known Member
I believe the it's called rodelization.
bobrown14
Well-Known Member
There are many scientific papers written and published and available on the internet. There's a thing called white papers. These papers are published by scientists and available to the public. I'm simply backing up what I say with facts that have been published by scientists and point to those published works.
Monocots and dicots are not 2 separate classes. IF you don't believe me here's another article that explains it. It's written for college students and from University of California Berkley. Pretty sure they have a decent biology program by any standard.
I'm not a biologist but I am a retired engineer. I studied physics a fair amount and know a little bit about chemistry. What I learned about biology I read in books and white papers. I don't go online and spew bs without doing my do diligence and research. I'm here to learn ... very simple. On this site I read a lot of negativity based on public opinion, sadly. The public opinion on Cannabis I've found to be less that scientific. But its changing. It needs to.
Here's the read should you want to benefit:
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/glossary/gloss8/monocotdicot.html
An exert from the paper pointed to above:
"It is now believed that some of the dicots are more closely related to monocots than to the other dicots, and that the angiosperms do not all fit neatly into two clades."
Genetics and specifically evolution are going thru some amount of change in the last few decades do to advances in science specifically related to the mapping of genomes with the use of molecular biology. Gotta keep up.
Instead of being negative check this read out. Should keep you busy hopefully. There's some science that can be related to cannabis there too!
https://www.sciencedaily.com/news/plants_animals/genetics/
Here's some more eye candy from IHG just to stay on topic:
Buffalato
jayblaze710
Well-Known Member
I was a plant evolutionary biologist for a very long time. I understand the initial divergence between monocots and dicots is less clear than originally thought, but it doesn’t change that current modern day plants can broadly be placed into monocot or dicot classes. Furthermore, anyone considering phylogenetics expecting a clear binary divergence pattern misunderstands how evolution occurs. Organisms are in fact a group of thousands of genes, each of which can have their own distinct phylogenetic history. The result is a case where some regions of the genome’s history can look completely different from another’s, despite coming from the same individual.
My more specific point is that you continually use the term dicot when it has no relevance to what you are referring to. You say all dicots can self-fertilize. That’s definitively not true. Within dicots there exists all manner of sexual strategies, including many where self-fertilization can not occur through genetic or physical methods.
What you’re saying is akin to saying something like “all vertebrates procreate sexually”. First, vertebrates, like dicots, is a massive group encompassing thousands of species and methods of procreation. It’s such a broad group that, in this context, it’s meaningless. Second, it’s completely untrue because there are vertebrates that are capable of reproducing asexually, just like there are many dicot species that do not self-fertilize.
In terms of cannabis, I agree that self-fertilization is an evolutionary strategy that exists to ensure that there is at least some progeny in the successive generation. This evolutionary strategy in which an organism prefers to reproduce with another individual but will self-reproduce is not exactly uncommon in the plant and animal world.
However, it is also clear that this potential for self-reproduction under normal growing conditions can and has been harnessed through selective breeding. There are many strains that have existed for generations without producing male flowers. Furthermore, the propensity to produce male flowers exists on a spectrum. Some will produce male flowers readily, and some only under highly stressful growth conditions. A good and ethical breeder should always be selecting for plants on the latter end of the spectrum.
Btw - if you actually click on their cladogram, it still shows a clear divergence between dicots and monocots. The monocots group is paraphyletic, suggesting that multiple now extinct lineages diverged from dicots around the same time. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/anthophyta/anthophytasy.html
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bobrown14
Well-Known Member
Yes I am aware of the separation of dicots and monocots and also aware of the similarities.
You got me on "all dicots can self produce". I don't think I said it that way. Yes there are some plants (dicots) that cannot self replicate.
I agree on the selective breeding for sure that is not my argument. In Cannabis as in MANY dicots, there are genetics in play that the plant can create seeds from a single female plant without a male being present. It's not JUST about stress either.
There is a genetic portion at play. I don't think it can be totally bred out of a cannabis plant or any other dicot that produces male bits to self pollinate.
Thank you for a much more positive reply other than "you dont know what you are talking about" kind of reply. That doesn't really help. You are correct as I was being far to general. I stand corrected on that.
We probably could argue genetics and evolution... there's several theories out there yet to be proven. We are in the dark ages with regard to evolution and things are changing as we look more closely at the genome.
Regarding cannabis and self pollination. Generally speaking many growers do not differentiate between a female plant throwing out a few male bits and a true hermaphrodite. There's a huge difference and its genetic. You should be able to explain it better than I for sure.
I run many obscure landrace cultivars that have been around for a VERY long time. They have those traits to self pollinate and probably why they are still around today. That and a few hippies saving seed.
The only way to get rid of those traits permanently is to genetically modify the genes of the plant in question. Yes you may be able to select those traits out to some degree but we are still trying to create a plant that does not seed. That process goes against the nature of the plant.
So on the 1 hand we are selecting out self pollination and on the other hand creating the environment and the exact conditions those traits are there for to keep the genetics going.
Gonna be very very difficult to do, I say impossible unless genetic manipulation. In the lab not in the green house. Selective breeding is actually genetic manipulation to a degree. Same as we did with Wheat and corn etc.
I know guys that look exclusively for polyploid plants and reproduce them only. I feel that is a mistake much worse than not selecting out hermaphrodites. Wheat is a good example. We chose polyploid genetics so we can feed more people (bigger yields), now those people we are feeding are getting sick and obese. Food for thought.
We cannot put the blame on a breeder unless we are getting full on hermaphrodites. That's my point.
Like I said, One seed does not an hermaphrodite make. I'd rather have an exact replica made naturally than one made artificially with chemicals. Those chemicals affect the genetics is my opinion. Now there may be an argument about using that self pollinated seed is promoting that genetic profile of self pollination. I say prove it with science.
You got me on "all dicots can self produce". I don't think I said it that way. Yes there are some plants (dicots) that cannot self replicate.
I agree on the selective breeding for sure that is not my argument. In Cannabis as in MANY dicots, there are genetics in play that the plant can create seeds from a single female plant without a male being present. It's not JUST about stress either.
There is a genetic portion at play. I don't think it can be totally bred out of a cannabis plant or any other dicot that produces male bits to self pollinate.
Thank you for a much more positive reply other than "you dont know what you are talking about" kind of reply. That doesn't really help. You are correct as I was being far to general. I stand corrected on that.
We probably could argue genetics and evolution... there's several theories out there yet to be proven. We are in the dark ages with regard to evolution and things are changing as we look more closely at the genome.
Regarding cannabis and self pollination. Generally speaking many growers do not differentiate between a female plant throwing out a few male bits and a true hermaphrodite. There's a huge difference and its genetic. You should be able to explain it better than I for sure.
I run many obscure landrace cultivars that have been around for a VERY long time. They have those traits to self pollinate and probably why they are still around today. That and a few hippies saving seed.
The only way to get rid of those traits permanently is to genetically modify the genes of the plant in question. Yes you may be able to select those traits out to some degree but we are still trying to create a plant that does not seed. That process goes against the nature of the plant.
So on the 1 hand we are selecting out self pollination and on the other hand creating the environment and the exact conditions those traits are there for to keep the genetics going.
Gonna be very very difficult to do, I say impossible unless genetic manipulation. In the lab not in the green house. Selective breeding is actually genetic manipulation to a degree. Same as we did with Wheat and corn etc.
I know guys that look exclusively for polyploid plants and reproduce them only. I feel that is a mistake much worse than not selecting out hermaphrodites. Wheat is a good example. We chose polyploid genetics so we can feed more people (bigger yields), now those people we are feeding are getting sick and obese. Food for thought.
We cannot put the blame on a breeder unless we are getting full on hermaphrodites. That's my point.
Like I said, One seed does not an hermaphrodite make. I'd rather have an exact replica made naturally than one made artificially with chemicals. Those chemicals affect the genetics is my opinion. Now there may be an argument about using that self pollinated seed is promoting that genetic profile of self pollination. I say prove it with science.
Breedingbull
Well-Known Member
i grew candy breathe which is similar to your jellium. Mine didn’t have the platinum candyland in it . It was just candyland .
It was easily the frostiest range of phenos from coffee bean cookie terps to super lemon haze terps to gas cookie funk to cookie super lemon funk .
Clusters of bright orange hairs on white buds bag appeal is still my favorite of all time and I didn’t even run it near full potential I was learning -_-
greencropper
Well-Known Member
that PCG Candyland thats in the Candybreath is a winner, looking forward to pollen chucking with my Candybreath regs in the future!
jayblaze710
Well-Known Member
I get where you’re coming from and I apologize for the tone earlier. I actually agree with a lot of what you’re saying. I still think your usage of dicot is weird. It’s technically correct. However, most dicots produce both male and female sexual organs on the same plant, and most of the time in the same flower. I still think you mean dioecious if you’re referring to plants with separate male and female individuals.
As far as herms, yeah the common nomenclature is lacking. Most people use it to mean a female plant that produces any male flowers at all. Even in that category there are multiple distinctions. Lots of male flowers, some normal male flowers early in flower, and some male anthers produced late in flower (nanners). Until we choose more descriptive terms, we’re sorta stuck with it.
I think the modern cannabis grower both overreacts and underreacts when it comes to herms. Some people think that herming is a new trait due to “lazy breeding”. But as you rightfully pointed out, landraces herm like crazy. I think it may be impossible to completely remove any herm traits, at least in some lineages. I think anything cookie heavy will have some herms. But even in those cases, I do believe that careful breeding can limit proportion and severity of the traits.