can an led light match a 1000 wat hps

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Ryante55

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
But will you ever get the difference in what it costs back ? You could get 3-4 top brand hps for the same price as one 1000w LED. And i said you need to cite sources , where's your source that shows a 1000w led that's putting out 2100+ umol? We also still didn't even discuss the lack of UV and far red in LEDs which to me is a bigger issue than the output. Ever notice LED users have a lot more deficiencies in their plants too? wonder why that is...
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At no point did we discuss system cost yes hps is cheap not arguing that at all. You said led companies claim 600w will replace 1000w hid....in reality they claim it will replace a SE 1000w you were talking about DE hps so your already using g false information to try to prove your point. Next you cited the manufacturer of the hps as your source if I did that with led you would not accept that so that invalidates what you said. Your really reaching with the UV and far red statement (you can get both of those with led) it just costs more but again we are not talking about cost we are talking about output.
Your really think those light has less output than a 1000w DE hps? https://chilledgrowlights.com/our-products-services/commercial-led-grow-lights/chilled-led-grow-light-1000w

Yes I know it's stupid expensive but it has a higher effeciency vs the hps and has the extra red and some UV. IDK why your still trying to make stupid arguments you canstantly point out the obvious and ignore science.

As far as I defeciency you really think that's from not having enough UV and IR? Imo it's far more likey that a defeciency is from them eating more because they have more photons avalible with a more balanced spectrum.
 
R

Ryante55

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
beam angle and reflectors also apply to LED's running them open will give a lot more spread but less intensity further away...lots to think about
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When I crank my led up to 900w over a 4x4 I have to be a couple feet away an still have at least 1000ppfd evenly across the canopy with no reflectors. My led aren't even new anymore now you can get at least %10 boost in ouput from the newer diodes.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
BTW,
a 1000w rig made of QBv2 has at least 2.670μMol/s PPF calculated with 55% efficiency. Osram new Square series in deephred reach 3,91μMol/J efficiency. A lamp with 1000w made with this diodes would have 3.900μMol/s PPF. Add 150w coolwhite and you have the same power draw like a DE and PPF would be +4000μMol/s. Still questions?

halo2killer said:
View attachment 4198182
However the new Wideband LEDs look promising.
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If you compare HPS vs. LED and run the enviroment optimized for HPS(25°C/~50% RH) you will see such differences. Optimize it for LED(30°C/+60% RH) and you would see exact the opposite.
Because of the lack in infrared(LED has no 800nm part like HPS) you need higher ambient temps to get the same growth rates.
I recommend you to read this..
https://www.blackdogled.com/lst

Useful LED's for growing are available from 275nm to up to 940nm, there is no lack of UV or far-red. You can even add UVB diodes if you want.
Even if you would need 900w to beat a DE Gravita it would save you a lot of energy.

Stay open, keep on learning and do not let the haters influence you. We've heard the same nonsense from him(yoda) for years because he's too stubborn to change his environment.
Why do you think do thousands of commercial gardeners switch to LEDs?
Because they want to make losses...? ... probably not!
 

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Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Samb213 said:
brilliant mate thats exactly the info i was looking for ..think ill go with 4 x 3000 k then although i will be using lst on all my plants to create a nice even canopy so maybe the short node spacing wouldn't be too much of an issue


is that literally the only difference then ?


or is it literally that close you could flip a coin and go with either
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No, it's not. Plants under LED usually have a higher nutrient demand too. Calcium and magnesium espechially but the calmag demand also seems related to the VPD. A too high VPD cause too much calcium uptake and it needs some more magnesium to compensate, with a too low VPD it would be the opposite and it needs more calcium. But also when the VPD is correct it seems the plants want more of these elements. But when you grow with 800-1000μMol/s/m² the plants need more of all nutes anyway. With HPS you have usually only 590-750μMol/s/m² at the recommended height; with a DE it's maybe a bit more. So 10-20% more you should calculate.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
BTW,
a 1000w rig made of QBv2 has at least 2.670μMol/s PPF calculated with 55% efficiency. Osram new Square series in deephred reach 3,91μMol/J efficiency. A lamp with 1000w made with this diodes would have 3.900μMol/s PPF. Add 150w coolwhite and you have the same power draw like a DE and PPF would be +4000μMol/s. Still questions?



If you compare HPS vs. LED and run the enviroment optimized for HPS(25°C/~50% RH) you will see such differences. Optimize it for LED(30°C/+60% RH) and you would see exact the opposite.
Because of the lack in infrared(LED has no 800nm part like HPS) you need higher ambient temps to get the same growth rates.
I recommend you to read this..
https://www.blackdogled.com/lst

Useful LED's for growing are available from 275nm to up to 940nm, there is no lack of UV or far-red. You can even add UVB diodes if you want.
Even if you would need 900w to beat a DE Gravita it would save you a lot of energy.

Stay open, keep on learning and do not let the haters influence you. We've heard the same nonsense from him(yoda) for years because he's too stubborn to change his environment.
Why do you think do thousands of commercial gardeners switch to LEDs?
Because they want to make losses...? ... probably not!
Click to expand...
You are mentally retarded, i have been growing with LEDs longer than you have even been growing why the fuck do you think i need to fix my environment when i am crushing it.

It's quite obvious you don't know shit about LEDs or you wouldn't be recommending UV diodes.
 
R

Ryante55

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
You are mentally retarded, i have been growing with LEDs longer than you have even been growing why the fuck do you think i need to fix my environment when i am crushing it.

It's quite obvious you don't know shit about LEDs or you wouldn't be recommending UV diodes.
Click to expand...
Your the one that said you need UV...
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
The fixture’s light source is a Gavita Pro Plus 1000W double ended HPS lamp, generating 2100 µmol s-1 of light.
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thats correct, the fixture's "light source" (a bare bulb, when new) , generates 2100 umol, thats pretty well established. its also very well established (multiple independent test going back years), that the system level efficiency of a gavita DE is about 1.7 umol/J

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099010

https://chilledgrowlights.com/independent-lab-reports/gravita-pro-1000-de-hps-at-1000w-goniometer-lab-report

https://chilledgrowlights.com/independent-lab-reports/gravita-pro-1000-de-hps-at-1150w-goniometer-lab-report

its also well established that there are no shortage of LED lights that independently test over 2.0 umol/J, some over 2.2 umol/J

you can nitpick all your other points about whether or not a single point source of light delivers light more effectively to the plants than an array, etc (most people would disagree but there is at least some platform for a debate, unlike the very fundamental efficiency numbers above)
 
Porky101

Porky101

Well-Known Member
CobKits said:
thats correct, the fixture's "light source" (a bare bulb, when new) , generates 2100 umol, thats pretty well established. its also very well established (multiple independent test going back years), that the system level efficiency of a gavita DE is about 1.7 umol/J

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099010

https://chilledgrowlights.com/independent-lab-reports/gravita-pro-1000-de-hps-at-1000w-goniometer-lab-report

https://chilledgrowlights.com/independent-lab-reports/gravita-pro-1000-de-hps-at-1150w-goniometer-lab-report

its also well established that there are no shortage of LED lights that independently test over 2.0 umol/J, some over 2.2 umol/J

you can nitpick all your other points about whether or not a single point source of light delivers light more effectively to the plants than an array, etc (most people would disagree but there is at least some platform for a debate, unlike the very fundamental efficiency numbers above)
Click to expand...

So what is the verdict???


LED OR HPS???

I am growing under both currently, and I will admit, so far equal performance from my plants from the DE HPS vs LED (I may say that visually the plants under the LEDS seem to be photosynthesizing more, they drinking slightly more water compared too hps plants) (LED using half the power though). All plants from the same mother and trained identically.

Plants under DE hps 750umol, LED 1,000umol (cant go much closer too the hps it gets a bit hot for my liking)
 
Porky101

Porky101

Well-Known Member
CobKits said:
what is the question? i know which one id choose in 2018
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Which would you choose?

I still haven't mastered LED, so I cant recommend them yet. In my eyes, once I know how to use them to their max, It should be way better than under hps for many reasons..
 
Porky101

Porky101

Well-Known Member
CobKits said:
only if your HPS crops are really lacking due to some more-easily-remedied-by-LED situation like heat stress. I wouldnt expect crops grown properly under either light to be "way better"
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So what are you saying, they produce the same stuff, only LED more efficient? Then it goes to LED?

I never meant, the plant would be better, i meant the working conditions are nicer under LED. less heat, less eye strain. I work in jungles.


So far, I am thinking like this:

LED for summer
HPS for winter.
 
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