Civil Discourse

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MichiganSpinDoctor

MichiganSpinDoctor

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Fogdog said:
During times of stress due to famine, drought, war, domestic partner's abuse, experiencing homelessness and others, the frequency of miscarriages goes up, way up. This is a survival response by the mother's body to ensure her survival. Is it wrong for this to be a natural response? Better that both die, i guess.
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Take your time.
 
MichiganSpinDoctor

MichiganSpinDoctor

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Fogdog said:
You too.

The question of the day is: can a person who voted for Trump conduct civil discourse?
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Miscarriages and abortion to save the life of the mother are not examples of the unborn baby killing that I object to. When it's mom's comfort vs. Baby's life, baby's life wins. She knew how babies were made.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

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MichiganSpinDoctor said:
Miscarriages and abortion to save the life of the mother are not examples of the unborn baby killing that I object to. When it's mom's comfort vs. Baby's life, baby's life wins. She knew how babies were made.
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I expected you would accept that the woman's body is free to reject the fetus during a time of externally imposed physical or emotional stress. Yet we have free will and are capable of making life choices beyond the basic autonomic responses. A pregnancy disrupts her body. It disrupts her education. It disrupts her employment. And it often disrupts her entire family life. As with the stress response the body automatically takes to ensure survival, a woman chooses whether or not to carry the baby for the very same reason. So that she can not just survive but thrive and then perhaps raise children later under better conditions. It is never a trivial decision.

Beyond your very simple religious belief, there is no reason why a woman should be forced to carry the baby to term. If she doesn't share your beliefs there is no reason she should be forced to abide by them. If there is nothing fundamentally morally wrong with a miscarriage then there is nothing morally wrong with deciding to terminate by choice.
 
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MichiganSpinDoctor

MichiganSpinDoctor

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I expected you would accept that the woman's body is free to reject the fetus during a time of externally imposed physical or emotional stress. Yet we have free will and are capable of making life choices beyond the basic autonomic responses. A pregnancy to disrupts her body. It disrupts her education. It disrupts her employment. And it often disrupts her entire family life. As with the stress response to ensure survival, a woman chooses whether or not to carry the baby for the very same reason. So that she can not just survive but thrive and then raise children under better conditions.

Beyond your very simple religious belief, there is no reason why a woman should be forced to carry the baby to term. If she doesn't share your beliefs there is no reason she should be forced to abide by them.
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I am not religious at all. I just think killing an unborn baby to make your life more comfortable is wrong.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

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MichiganSpinDoctor said:
I am not religious at all. I just think killing an unborn baby to make your life more comfortable is wrong.
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"it's wrong" No justification, just a statement of moral belief. A belief based upon what? Judaeo Christian religious principles. In this case, your religious belief isn't even held by most people in the US. Especially not women, who are most affected.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

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Rob Roy said:
Well certainly, I thought you'd never ask. I'll prove confiscatory taxes are a scam too.

Okay, you and I can't delegate a right we don't possess. That's self evident and only an idiot would question that Let's express that as a zero or 0.

You, nor I have any right to take things which don't belong to us, nobody does. That's universally known as theft when people do that. So, again let's express that as zero right to steal.

Since both you and I have ZERO right to commit theft, we can't combine that zero right with dozens or hundreds or thousands of other people (none of whom have any right to theft) and by changing what we call ourselves, ("government" ) somehow create something positive from the sum of all of our individual zeroes.

0 + 0 + 0 + 0 (ad finitum) will always come to zero. There's your mathematical proof that people have no ability to combine nonexistent rights exponentially and somehow come up with a positive sum, thus creating a right which none of them ever had.

I assume you understand rudimentary math ? I eagerly await your astute counter argument.
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First of all by being a citizen of your great (well it was) country you have entered into a voluntary (voluntary in the fact you can leave at any point) contract, where as you already know that a portion of your wealth will be taxed to pay for infrastructure so let’s give that a number shall we, say 1. Don’t like the contract? Move to your little Island of libertarian/volunteerism and see how that works. Moving on,if your not on the island yet. So you earn a living and pay your obligatory taxes of which you already know what they are and by entering the workforce have, by virtue of earning a wage agreed to pay a portion, let’s give that a number shall we, 1 sounds good to me. Now by virtue of paying taxes you can use any number of items paid for by a portion of your contribution, you know like schools, roads, etc., you have already admitted that you do. These things have contributed to your ability to earn a living and grow your wealth correct? Ok so again let’s arbitarily pull a number out, say 2 because it’s a double positive of being able to use the resources that promote your wealth. Making sense? Now, let’s move to the point where you are unable to earn a wage but due to smart planning have saved a bit using “tax free” savings, well let’s hope so, can’t keep putting your beer in the buddies fridge can you? But now your not earning any money and paying no taxes but still using all of the benefits of the taxes paid, you know Medicare, etc., pretty cool huh. So let’s again pull a fucking random number from the hat, say 2 again, as your are reaping the benifits but no longer contributing, again cool huh. So I’m up to 6, I could go on but you bore me, and I’m going fishing. You should actually apply your thinking to the world at hand and not the dark ages of a libertarian fool. You really need to start shopping for that island, I’m sure you’ll be much happier, and won’t have to steal any of the resources you so much hate to pay for.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
During times of stress due to famine, drought, war, domestic partner's abuse, experiencing homelessness and others, the frequency of miscarriages goes up, way up. This is a survival response by the mother's body to ensure her survival. Is it wrong for this to be a natural response? Better that both die, i guess.
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At least there wouldn’t be immoral women to deal with I guess.
 
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