Recommend $300 budget light..... For a friend

[Kingrow1]

Should ppfd of a light be ignored.

I think you would do well to understand 'exactly' what ppfd is and isn't.

It is inaccurate but leds have mis-sold you as it being accurate.

I get very little back if i start a convo with led hypsters, defo zero actual science

 

[brewbeer]

I think you would do well to understand 'exactly' what ppfd is and isn't.

It is inaccurate but leds have mis-sold you as it being accurate.

I get very little back if i start a convo with led hypsters, defo zero actual science

If you would like to learn, spend some time in the LED subforum in the indoor growing forum, I believe you will find it very informative. There are very bright people discussing all aspects of LED technology and research and science. Definitely worth a visit.

 

[pulpoinspace]

Eventually science will prevail at the end of the hype, be here then.
!

Not trying to argue, at all, personally i think HID and LED both work great. But do you mean science will prevail and prove that current HID tech is better than current LED tech? Maybe? Disregarding everything else subjective in the argument, idk how you could possibly think that science will never develop more efficient grow lights than, what i presume you're referring to, HID. Do you really believe HID to be the be-all-end-all of indoor grow lighting and trying to push technology forward is futile?

 

[Kingrow1]

Not trying to argue, at all, personally i think HID and LED both work great. But do you mean science will prevail and prove that current HID tech is better than current LED tech? Maybe? Disregarding everything else subjective in the argument, idk how you could possibly think that science will never develop more efficient grow lights than, what i presume you're referring to, HID. Do you really believe HID to be the be-all-end-all of indoor grow lighting and trying to push technology forward is futile?

The future of grow lights is the hazardous highly efficient super heated/charged elements presently making way in science today. Once nasa and other companies make them safer and cheaper were all there.

What this is is not a 'hps is the best' debate but purely that the efficienvy driven from ppfd calculations highly inaccurate.

It just so happens that those hyped up numbers are the only difference why led growers base their lights as superior to hps and the debate about which is best ensues.

Other than that only those looking for snake oil pay them prices.....

 

[Kingrow1]

If you would like to learn, spend some time in the LED subforum in the indoor growing forum, I believe you will find it very informative. There are very bright people discussing all aspects of LED technology and research and science. Definitely worth a visit.

I have learnt, grown, contributed here and so much more.

I made a statement just deal with it and go troll on another forum (preferably one youve spent 7 years on).

 

[pulpoinspace]

The future of grow lights is the hazardous highly efficient super heated/charged elements presently making way in science today. Once nasa and other companies make them safer and cheaper were all there.

What this is is not a 'hps is the best' debate but purely that the efficienvy driven from ppfd calculations highly inaccurate.

It just so happens that those hyped up numbers are the only difference why led growers base their lights as superior to hps and the debate about which is best ensues.

Other than that only those looking for snake oil pay them prices.....

Interesting. In my opinion they are all viable. I guess I'm not sure which is the "best". I have grown outdoor, with cfls, with hps, and with leds. these days i choose to grow with LEDs because i enjoy designing and building fixtures that are tailored to my specific space, and they seem easier to keep cool as its very hot where i live. not to mention its fun for me. and it works for me. which is what i believe is most important when growing this stuff.

Anyways. To teach their own.

I cant wait for these supercharged elemental lamps to grow some sticky dank.

Happy growing.

 

[Kingrow1]

Interesting. In my opinion they are all viable. I guess I'm not sure which is the "best". I have grown outdoor, with cfls, with hps, and with leds. these days i choose to grow with LEDs because i enjoy designing and building fixtures that are tailored to my specific space, and they seem easier to keep cool as its very hot where i live. not to mention its fun for me. and it works for me. which is what i believe is most important when growing this stuff.

Anyways. To teach their own.

I cant wait for these supercharged elemental lamps to grow some sticky dank.

Happy growing.

Leds work just fine were all good there.

Do not place your thermometer under the lights, that heat will dissapear with just any basic extraction

Just to add that i dont use leds so im not trying to sell you anything just the basics of how to grow so you can apply that science to whatever light you feel you prefer.

 

[gwheels]

400 hps or 315 cmh is the cheapest.

 

[brewbeer]

I have learnt, grown, contributed here and so much more.

I made a statement just deal with it and go troll on another forum (preferably one youve spent 7 years on).

Fair enough, thank you for your contributions, I appreciate forums like this and folk like you providing frequently useful information to others seeking learning and understanding.

But I still suggest anyone else interested in LED and technical lighting information to spend time in the LED subforum. Great discussions and information. Thank you !

 

[Kingrow1]

Fair enough, thank you for your contributions, I appreciate forums like this and folk like you providing frequently useful information to others seeking learning and understanding.

But I still suggest anyone else interested in LED and technical lighting information to spend time in the LED subforum. Great discussions and information. Thank you !

Sorry my bad, just get this led stuff far too much.

Leds have plenty to discuss and i do read a lot but my input there would be negative to their fun most likely and this is a more general forum.

My main problem with leds is merely their price, had they been the same as cmh it might have been interesting especially for us small plant growers

 

[gwheels]

I agree. I use cmh and tumber cobs and a samsung board and soon a strip light too.

But few are 300 for 3 x 3 coverage.

The 315 cmh in a reflective tent with go0d.defoliating is perfection with just a scrubbe4 and fan needed for heat control. My 4 x 4 hits 78 exactly with no vents open for max negative pressure. I use socks over 6binch duct pipea.for intakes.

 

[Kingrow1]

I agree. I use cmh and tumber cobs and a samsung board and soon a strip light too.

But few are 300 for 3 x 3 coverage.

The 315 cmh in a reflective tent with go0d.defoliating is perfection with just a scrubbe4 and fan needed for heat control. My 4 x 4 hits 78 exactly with no vents open for max negative pressure. I use socks over 6binch duct pipea.for intakes.

I dont like wind from negative pressure and now run very little extraction.

 

[pulpoinspace]

Sorry my bad, just get this led stuff far too much.

Leds have plenty to discuss and i do read a lot but my input there would be negative to their fun most likely and this is a more general forum.

My main problem with leds is merely their price, had they been the same as cmh it might have been interesting especially for us small plant growers

Yeah people have a tendency to get pretty aggressive on RIU. And there are plenty of LED companies helped give LED a bad name. But i've had success growing with DIY LEDs and its a fun hobby. I enjoy the customization aspect of it. It is pricey but they last a long time. And sometimes your friends see them and the success you're havin and wanna buy one from ya.

 

[ColoradoHighGrower]

hazardous highly efficient super heated/charged elements presently making way in science today

Name? Link?

 

[Big Green Thumb]

Ok, for most bang for the buck, I am loving what @Prawn Connery is doing with QB324s. See his thread here https://www.rollitup.org/t/qb324-grow.972640/

2 QB324s with heat sinks for $139?? if I am reading the site correctly
https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/quantum-boards/products/qb324-with-slate-2-single-combo

and an hlg-480H-c2100a for $129
https://www.rapidled.com/mean-well-hlg-480h-c2100a/

The above build is about as cheap as I have found for a quality LED setup. That should give you 400-450 watts or so and should compete with an HPS 600. I am not sure the LED will beat it, but it should give the 600 a hell of a run. Note that I would definitely recommend running a fan on the heatsink if driving the boards at anything 350 watts.

 

[Kingrow1]

Name? Link?

We are not an industry at the forefront of lighting, the car industry, nasa, philips and others are and have experimented/produced better sources of ligght than all grow lights to present.

You cant afford thwm and are too dangerous at present but this will be the future.

No need to link just read the latest science on lighting

 

[Kingrow1]

Yeah people have a tendency to get pretty aggressive on RIU. And there are plenty of LED companies helped give LED a bad name. But i've had success growing with DIY LEDs and its a fun hobby. I enjoy the customization aspect of it. It is pricey but they last a long time. And sometimes your friends see them and the success you're havin and wanna buy one from ya.

Leds are just fine, good lights.

The argument comes from the original mars and ufo era where they hyped ppfd and quoted them as better than hps. This was five years ago and every year since aome new led tech comes out with the same hype.

Yes they were very wrong to quote ppfd and bro science just to get you to justify the price.

Now the market is full of crap which tells you it was the money not the growers that benefitted and mucho bullshit got sold and hyped here.

Hos growers are atill yeilding what they always did and still leds strughle to beat them.

For newer growers its just an exspensive ligjt and follow the crowd, for the vets here well we witnessed the truth and had time to pick their science apart then put it back to em as reason hps is atill maxing out their yeilds.

They evwn omitted infa red to say the lights are cooler than hps and bullturd like that, plants freaking love infared it drives transpiration.

Most led hypsters just come across as noobs and have made the site more argumentative and have a bad attitude, pretty much what they did to the market for profit too, wankers im afraid, the rest of us know too much science and grow well enough to just tell them to get bent

 

[Kingrow1]

Ok, for most bang for the buck, I am loving what @Prawn Connery is doing with QB324s. See his thread here https://www.rollitup.org/t/qb324-grow.972640/

2 QB324s with heat sinks for $139?? if I am reading the site correctly
https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/quantum-boards/products/qb324-with-slate-2-single-combo

and an hlg-480H-c2100a for $129
https://www.rapidled.com/mean-well-hlg-480h-c2100a/

The above build is about as cheap as I have found for a quality LED setup. That should give you 400-450 watts or so and should compete with an HPS 600. I am not sure the LED will beat it, but it should give the 600 a hell of a run. Note that I would definitely recommend running a fan on the heatsink if driving the boards at anything 350 watts.

Just to point out to the previous new poster that hype is everywhere with leds, this guy is saying 400/450w led is as good as a 600w hps.

Wild claims that bear no logic, science or bearing but ruin a pretty tight grow site.

Those on a more scientific basis like me have shown and agree the actual spectrum of hps is worth one hell of a lot more than the sum of its ppfd. We can now see the bad science ppfd creates amongst the site

 

[TacoMac]

Would it be better to discuss how many times a year those inefficient old tech glass tube bulbs need to be replaced

You don't win an argument against someone spouting pure bullshit by spouting pure bullshit.

 

[Fubard]

Sorry my bad, just get this led stuff far too much.

Leds have plenty to discuss and i do read a lot but my input there would be negative to their fun most likely and this is a more general forum.

My main problem with leds is merely their price, had they been the same as cmh it might have been interesting especially for us small plant growers

That's where other arguments come in though, and where things can REALLY get interesting.

Take a led light that puts out exactly the same light as a, say, 400w HID, and I mean actually does that and not the wild claims made by some manufacturers, yet uses half the power or less. Instantly, over a longer term, there's some of that extra cost wiped out in savings on energy costs. Then add on how much replacing HID bulbs regularly costs versus maybe 5 years or more with led. There's more wiped off the initial costs. Unless you have problems keeping temperatures high enough, you bring in extra ventilation/cooling costs via fans, airco or whatever, and the energy costs running that, so that's more wiped off.

So you start adding all that up, you can easily see how a more expensive, initially, led setup can end up being cheaper in the long term, and, depending on design, gives you more flexibility over how you have your coverage instead of it being at a central point.

So both have advantages, both could be considered equal regarding total costs in the long term including energy, so which one is better?

It's one of these never ending arguments, isn't it...