Topdawg Genetics

[goldberg71b]

If you wanted different strains, why pick 3 strains with the same parents used?
Most of their gear is chem/diesel back-crosses or crossed to elite clones.
I wouldn't expect them to be too much different, even if the male/female role was switched.

Because JJ is notorious for not keeping males. And when lineage show different mothers. Totally different offspring is possible. That is my point. If their lineage was wrote identical that would/SHOULD mean the strain name is IDENTICAL! I wouldn’t have bought them. Stardawg and Stardawg Corey shouldn’t be identical but yes from the same stock. Add to that as I said. JJ is notorious for not keeping males.

Parents might be from IDENTICAL seed stock BUT that doesn’t mean for breeding purposes they are EQUAL

 

[Tangerine_]

Well MOTHER FUCKER! I have sour star dawg and star diesel! And guess what I just ordered today!? SOUR COREY! I was under the impression that they parents were different but from the same line and at times reversed mom to Dad or Dad to mom

That's why I posted it. I knew there were others that bought multiple packs like I did. I would've bought a back up back regardless but wish I'd checked with JJ sooner before buying the third one. I passed on others that are no longer available Oh well, into the vault they go.

Plus I made a shit ton of F2s ​

Probably a good thing, need 30+ plants of one strain to get good chance for something real special.

I couldn't imagine the tedious job of sifting through 3 packs at once. I germ'd 8 seeds and have 4 females and I'm having a difficult time narrowing it down with this one. The variances are so subtle. The terps and potency are pretty fantastic though so I cant really complain

 

[goldberg71b]

That's why I posted it. I knew there others that bought multiple packs like I did. I would've bought a back up back regardless but wish I'd checked with JJ sooner before buying the third one. I passed on others that are no longer available Oh well, into the vault they go.

Plus I made a shit ton of F2s ​

I couldn't imagine the tedious job of sifting through 3 packs at once. I germ'd 8 seeds and have 4 females and I'm having a difficult time narrowing it down with this one. The variances are so subtle. The terps and potency are pretty fantastic though so I cant really complain

I’d like to know how you got an answer. I gave up asking him anything never got a reply except when I told him that there was group ripping him and thought he’d like to know.

 

[Tangerine_]

I’d like to know how you got an answer. I gave up asking him anything never got a reply except when I told him that there was group ripping him and thought he’d like to know.

I asked him through DM and got a response a few days later. I also saw a similar question asked on his IG. I think its the one with the pic of all the bundled up packs showing off the new drop with "Star Corey" so there were others wondering the same thing.

 

[goldberg71b]

I asked him through DM and got a response a few days later. I also saw a similar question asked on his IG. I think its the one with the pic of all the bundled up packs showing off the new drop with "Star Corey" so there were others wondering the same thing.

That’s how I tried to do it as well. I swore I was done buying his seeds. I’ve got chem D cut and an IG buddy is sending the Skunk va cut the next time cuts are taken. But I know the Corey cut puts up big numbers. I just saw a post of the results on sour dawg also with big numbers and figured what hell Sour Corey would be my last pack. But with the actual cuts I’m in no rush to pop them. Learn them before seeing what inbreeding did to them.

 

[goldberg71b]

Identical lineage with identical parents with different names IMO is a (I’ll be nice and call it a) “gimmick” to sell more packs. I’ve never heard of anyone using different names for seeds from the same identical parents. 2.0 or name tweek with parent from identical stock ect

 

[Tangerine_]

Identical lineage with identical parents with different names IMO is a (I’ll be nice and call it a) “gimmick” to sell more packs. I’ve never heard of anyone using different names for seeds from the same identical parents. 2.0 or name tweek with parent from identical stock ect

I've seen a lot seed banks do this with labels. It isn't always the breeder.
Btw, if you look at the next pic on IG with a picture of packs, you'll find he did in fact confirm it. (I noticed your irate inquisition on IG and doubt you'll get a response)

Once again, as James said, it had been posted that the all Star Dawg mothers will always be the Corey cut unless its specified on the pack the Guava was used. My Guava D has lineage listed as Star Dawg (guava) x Chem D.

I'd read the same thing James did on ICMag more than once. I always assumed they were the same due to the lineage. The confusion for me, came straight from this thread....NOT Top Dawg.

This is what prompted my question to JJ in the first place.
The only place I've read about this strain having the parents switched around was here on page 145/146.

Every seed bank I used had them listed in the exact same order.
https://www.cannabeanery.com/hikashop-menu-for-brands-listing/product/146-sour-dawg/category_pathway-53
https://www.seedsherenow.com/top-dawg-seeds-star-diesel.html
https://www.seedsherenow.com/top-dawg-seeds-sour-corey.html
https://www.instagram.com/p/BmO7kHgHXDx/?taken-by=topdawgseeds
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bkga8bxnqAi/?taken-by=topdawgseeds


I didn't post this info to start a bunch of drama or to hate on Top Dawg. It was to help clear up the confusion started a few pages back. Sorry you're so upset by it *SMH*​

 

[goldberg71b]

I've seen a lot seed banks do this with labels. It isn't always the breeder.
Btw, if you look at the next pic on IG with a picture of packs, you'll find he did in fact confirm it. (noticed your irate inquisition on IG and doubt you'll get a response)
Once again, as James said, it had been posted that the all mothers used will always be the Corey cut unless its specified on the pack the Guava was used.

I'd read the same thing James did on ICMag more than once. I always assumed they were the same due to the lineage printed in exact order. The confusion for me, came straight from this thread....NOT Top Dawg.

This is what prompted my question to JJ in the first place.
The only place I've read about this strain having the parents switched around was here. Every seed bank I used had them listed in same order.
https://www.cannabeanery.com/hikashop-menu-for-brands-listing/product/146-sour-dawg/category_pathway-53
https://www.seedsherenow.com/top-dawg-seeds-star-diesel.html
https://www.seedsherenow.com/top-dawg-seeds-sour-corey.html
https://www.instagram.com/p/BmO7kHgHXDx/?taken-by=topdawgseeds
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bkga8bxnqAi/?taken-by=topdawgseeds


I didn't post this info to start a bunch of drama or to hate on Top Dawg. Sorry you're so upset by it *SMH*​

Are you suggesting seedbanks are putting stickers on TD strains for the lineages?

Sometime JJ put names and lineage sometimes it’s just names. Some lineages have multiple cuts of the same lineage. Each cut is a different pheno. Each pheno will match up slightly differently. So it can say stardawg-Corey-Guava yes they’re all stardawg but they’re not the exact same and seeds with each of them with the identical male should express slightly different offspring. One might produce more weight but not smell as good one might have the best smell and produce less and the third might hit on both weight and smell. Then as I said earlier JJ is notorious for different males. So he could hit all three with 3 different males with the same exact lineage. Which on paper would look the same. But that doesn’t mean the seeds will produce the same. One pheno might produce stable offspring and the other two might not. Changing the name surely leads the buyer to think there’s a difference. YES I get it TD is a bunch of inbreeding. But each tweak is meant to change it slightly for the better. I’m not mad I’m just pointing out what I think is common sense. Same mom and same pop SHOULD equal the same exact strain name! Besides that JJ made 4 different stardawgs ALL with different males. Each is noted for DIFFERENT traits even though it’s the same exact mom and the 4 fathers were from the same seed stock. So with TD if I see 3 strain names with the same lineage. I’m expecting they're different phenos being used as parent or parents. Where JJ is expecting a slightly different result. With any other breeder I wouldn’t be saying this. But with JJ keeping males isn’t a strong suit.

 

[goldberg71b]

@Tangerine_ where did you see this post about all stardawgs being Corey cut? I never saw icmag? I don’t use it. That should be noted on his page and every place selling his gear. Which just leads me back to it being a gimmick using different names otherwise what’s the point in creating another name for something that already has a name?

 

[Tangerine_]

Are you suggesting seedbanks are putting stickers on TD strains for the lineages?

Sometime JJ put names and lineage sometimes it’s just names. Some lineages have multiple cuts of the same lineage. Each cut is a different pheno. Each pheno will match up slightly differently. So it can say stardawg-Corey-Guava yes they’re all stardawg but they’re not the exact same and seeds with each of them with the identical male should express slightly different offspring. One might produce more weight but not smell as good one might have the best smell and produce less and the third might hit on both weight and smell. Then as I said earlier JJ is notorious for different males. So he could hit all three with 3 different males with the same exact lineage. Which on paper would look the same. But that doesn’t mean the seeds will produce the same. One pheno might produce stable offspring and the other two might not. Changing the name surely leads the buyer to think there’s a difference. YES I get it TD is a bunch of inbreeding. But each tweak is meant to change it slightly for the better. I’m not mad I’m just pointing out what I think is common sense. Same mom and same pop SHOULD equal the same exact strain name! Besides that JJ made 4 different stardawgs ALL with different males. Each is noted for DIFFERENT traits even though it’s the same exact mom and the 4 fathers were from the same seed stock. So with TD if I see 3 strain names with the same lineage. I’m expecting they're different phenos being used as parent or parents. Where JJ is expecting a slightly different result. With any other breeder I wouldn’t be saying this. But with JJ keeping males isn’t a strong suit.

I'm well aware of how many versions of Star Dawg there are. I have a few of those packs. JJ is known for changing out Star Dawg males...not the females.


JJ himself (including MoneyMike) said on ICmag he uses his Corey cut for all moms in his crosses (unless the Guava is specified)
None of the seedbank I listed said "different parents were used". You made that claim a few pages back and then again today on IG. Not sure where you buy your TD but maybe take it up with them if they're rearranging lineage on packs.

Seems most of the the confusion comes from yes, different names but also this very thread!. Again, this is why I (politely) asked him myself and I had no issue getting a response. Not sure why that bothers you so much.

I agree that breeders should just pick a name and stick with it, and yes, I've seen seed banks do this with not just Top Dawg but GP as well. They don't pick some off the wall name, they usually just combine the parents names. As long as the genetics are listed in the correct order I'm happy.

I guess if you're not happy you can always move onto other breeders. I'm not sure what more you think anyone can do. And I'm not hear to fetch IC Mag links or do your homework and I certainly don't care to continue this trivial debate. I simply added some info. It wasn't a cue to start drama or to get anyones panties bunched up. There's really no need for this to elevate when all it took in the first place was a little homework and a polite email.
*shrugs*

 

[goldberg71b]

I'm well aware of how many versions of Star Dawg there are. I have a few of those packs. JJ is known for changing out Star Dawg males...not the females.

JJ himself (including MoneyMike) repeatedly said on ICmag he uses his prized Corey cut for all moms in his crosses so why would any one think any different? None of the seedbank I listed said "different parents were used". You made that claim a few pages back and then again on IG. Not sure where you buy your TD but maybe take it up wit them if they're rearranging lineage on packs.

Seems most of the the confusion comes from yes, different names but also this very thread!. Again, this is why I (politely) asked him myself and I had no issue getting a response. Not sure why that bothers you so much.

I agree that breeders should just pick a name and stick with it, and yes, I've seen seed banks do this with not just Top Dawg but GP as well. They don't pick some off the wall name, they usually just combine the parents names. As long as the genetics are listed in the correct order I'm happy.

I guess if you're not happy you can always move onto other breeders. I'm not sure what more you think anyone can do. And I certainly don't care to continue this trivial debate. I simply added some info. It wasn't a cue to start drama or to get anyones panties bunched up.
*shrugs*

I'm well aware of how many versions of Star Dawg there are. I have a few of those packs. JJ is known for changing out Star Dawg males...not the females.

JJ himself (including MoneyMike) repeatedly said on ICmag he uses his prized Corey cut for all moms in his crosses so why would any one think any different? None of the seedbank I listed said "different parents were used". You made that claim a few pages back and then again on IG. Not sure where you buy your TD but maybe take it up wit them if they're rearranging lineage on packs.

Seems most of the the confusion comes from yes, different names but also this very thread!. Again, this is why I (politely) asked him myself and I had no issue getting a response. Not sure why that bothers you so much.

I agree that breeders should just pick a name and stick with it, and yes, I've seen seed banks do this with not just Top Dawg but GP as well. They don't pick some off the wall name, they usually just combine the parents names. As long as the genetics are listed in the correct order I'm happy.

I guess if you're not happy you can always move onto other breeders. I'm not sure what more you think anyone can do. And I certainly don't care to continue this trivial debate. I simply added some info. It wasn't a cue to start drama or to get anyones panties bunched up.
*shrugs*

I never used ICmag. You keep saying sorry for making me mad ect. Im not mad I can’t be any clearer. If I don’t use that forum and never saw that statement on TD IG page or at any seedbank how is someone supposed to know? (If I knew we wouldn’t be discussing this I’d have read your post and not commented and moved on. And I don’t follow money mike) Besides that the simple point is what’s the purpose of labeling the same seeds with 3 different names? Especially with multiple phenos previously used the easiest way to eliminate confusion would be to use the existing name. Meaning Corey cut or Corey stardawg. Going with simple stardawg leaves it open for this confusion. I thought everyone left ICmag a few years back? Your points makes sense IF it was well advertised. But a post in ICmag might have worked years ago but it’s no way to spread the words these days. That should be something that ever seedbank should have a note about. But let’s assume for a second that a ICmag post did reach everyone. What’s the point in using the same mother and father but giving the seeds 3 different names? That’s surely not for clarity? For those who saw the posts they know but don’t they still question the logic behind that? But to anyone else different names mean something is different even if it’s a small difference. You said yourself there’s a lot of confusion. It’s not the buyers who are creating that confusion. JJ can spend hours days weeks months and years arguing about gu but can’t make sure everyone knows this tid bit of helpful info! Trust me I’m glad you posted this. I’m happy to know. What is the logic in 3 names for the exact same seeds? If it’s not to get those who don’t know to buy more? Hell if they’re as good as I hope having 3 packs doesn’t bother me one bit. But in the same breath I wouldn’t have bought all 3. I’d have made F2 if I wanted to dig further.

 

[jayblaze710]

I'm well aware of how many versions of Star Dawg there are. I have a few of those packs. JJ is known for changing out Star Dawg males...not the females.


JJ himself (including MoneyMike) said on ICmag he uses his prized Corey cut for all moms in his crosses (unless the Guava is specified) as well as a list of his mothers for other crosses so why would any one think any different? None of the seedbank I listed said "different parents were used". You made that claim a few pages back and then again today on IG. Not sure where you buy your TD but maybe take it up with them if they're rearranging lineage on packs.

Seems most of the the confusion comes from yes, different names but also this very thread!. Again, this is why I (politely) asked him myself and I had no issue getting a response. Not sure why that bothers you so much.

I agree that breeders should just pick a name and stick with it, and yes, I've seen seed banks do this with not just Top Dawg but GP as well. They don't pick some off the wall name, they usually just combine the parents names. As long as the genetics are listed in the correct order I'm happy.

I guess if you're not happy you can always move onto other breeders. I'm not sure what more you think anyone can do. And I'm not hear to fetch IC Mag links or do your homework and I certainly don't care to continue this trivial debate. I simply added some info. It wasn't a cue to start drama or to get anyones panties bunched up. There's really no need for this to elevate when all it took in the first place was a little homework and a polite email.
*shrugs*

I’m glad you clarified that all 3 packs are exactly the same, but I’m confused how anyone could think it’s anything but a bit shady.

If I saw 3 packs released in short order with the same lineage, I’d assume different parents were used. For example, Skunk VA just released two crosses with the same lineage, but the fathers were different and had been selected for different phenos. That’s fine. He made it very clear and the packs came with descriptions that elucidated the differences in phenos you could expect.

The “lots of people do it” shouldn’t be a valid excuse for anything, but it’s also not completely applicable. I can only recall breeders changing names a few times, and usually it was for something like realizing another breeder already used that name (or a typo in GPS’ case). I honestly can’t recall someone changing the name, and then changing it again.

To make it even more confusing, Top Dawg released multiple batches of Star Dawg with different males, but continued to just call them all Star Dawg.

 

[goldberg71b]

I’m glad you clarified that all 3 packs are exactly the same, but I’m confused how anyone could think it’s anything but a bit shady.

If I saw 3 packs released in short order with the same lineage, I’d assume different parents were used. For example, Skunk VA just released two crosses with the same lineage, but the fathers were different and had been selected for different phenos. That’s fine. He made it very clear and the packs came with descriptions that elucidated the differences in phenos you could expect.

The “lots of people do it” shouldn’t be a valid excuse for anything, but it’s also not completely applicable. I can only recall breeders changing names a few times, and usually it was for something like realizing another breeder already used that name (or a typo in GPS’ case). I honestly can’t recall someone changing the name, and then changing it again.

To make it even more confusing, Top Dawg released multiple batches of Star Dawg with different males, but continued to just call them all Star Dawg.

Amen brother! That’s my point exactly but I keep getting replies saying I’m sorry if this makes you mad and I didn’t want to start drama. lol. Someone with reason!

 

[Tangerine_]

I’m glad you clarified that all 3 packs are exactly the same, but I’m confused how anyone could think it’s anything but a bit shady.

If I saw 3 packs released in short order with the same lineage, I’d assume different parents were used. For example, Skunk VA just released two crosses with the same lineage, but the fathers were different and had been selected for different phenos. That’s fine. He made it very clear and the packs came with descriptions that elucidated the differences in phenos you could expect.

The “lots of people do it” shouldn’t be a valid excuse for anything, but it’s also not completely applicable. I can only recall breeders changing names a few times, and usually it was for something like realizing another breeder already used that name (or a typo in GPS’ case). I honestly can’t recall someone changing the name, and then changing it again.

To make it even more confusing, Top Dawg released multiple batches of Star Dawg with different males, but continued to just call them all Star Dawg.

I agree. Its just not something I care enough about to debate or argue. I know JJ can be really lazy with details. I'm aware of this. I said I was aware of this and thought it was shitty to keep changing the name. Stating other people do it doesnt validate it, it expresses the absolute need for folks to do their homework. Period.
As far as it being only ONE pack from GP? Wrong again. Many from the WW series didn't get named until later on. For instance my Tri-Fi is now Bon Fire.
However, that isn't the issue. The issue is, a claim made a few pages back that the parents were rearranged and that had no basis in fact. I've not seen ANY seed banks rearrange the parents on these packs. So I simply asked JJ myself and shared that info here. Guess that was the wrong move because it did in fact stir up shit and cause butthurt.

If you two wanna spend the night re-hashing JJs business/breeding practices....have at it. Seriously, I have far bigger things on my plate than arguing over this trivial nonsense.
And when I post more pics of these grows (something neither of you have done) I'll list all three names...just as I've done all along.

Who would've thought that contributing pics and accurate info to a thread would cause so much angst.

 

[Tangerine_]

Amen brother! That’s my point exactly but I keep getting replies saying I’m sorry if this makes you mad and I didn’t want to start drama. lol. Someone with reason!

Maybe you two should just get a room?

All you've done is repeatedly quote me because I corrected YOUR incorrect info. On top of that you seem slighted that you didn't get a response from JJ. Pfft...couldn't imagine why

Jay, you're very smart but perhaps your contempt for breeders is clouding your ability to follow my point. Either way, you two can always opt to NOT buy Top Dawg or further support this "shady" business.

Worst of all, the clarifications I added are now lost in pages of needless arguing, so I'm done. Y'all have the last word or spend the rest of the night sticking pins in a JJ voodoo doll.. Hell if anyone could follow this mess now. *SMH*

 

[Tangerine_]

I never used ICmag. You keep saying sorry for making me mad ect. Im not mad I can’t be any clearer. If I don’t use that forum and never saw that statement on TD IG page or at any seedbank how is someone supposed to know? (If I knew we wouldn’t be discussing this I’d have read your post and not commented and moved on. And I don’t follow money mike) Besides that the simple point is what’s the purpose of labeling the same seeds with 3 different names? Especially with multiple phenos previously used the easiest way to eliminate confusion would be to use the existing name. Meaning Corey cut or Corey stardawg. Going with simple stardawg leaves it open for this confusion. I thought everyone left ICmag a few years back? Your points makes sense IF it was well advertised. But a post in ICmag might have worked years ago but it’s no way to spread the words these days. That should be something that ever seedbank should have a note about. But let’s assume for a second that a ICmag post did reach everyone. What’s the point in using the same mother and father but giving the seeds 3 different names? That’s surely not for clarity? For those who saw the posts they know but don’t they still question the logic behind that? But to anyone else different names mean something is different even if it’s a small difference. You said yourself there’s a lot of confusion. It’s not the buyers who are creating that confusion. JJ can spend hours days weeks months and years arguing about gu but can’t make sure everyone knows this tid bit of helpful info! Trust me I’m glad you posted this. I’m happy to know. What is the logic in 3 names for the exact same seeds? If it’s not to get those who don’t know to buy more? Hell if they’re as good as I hope having 3 packs doesn’t bother me one bit. But in the same breath I wouldn’t have bought all 3. I’d have made F2 if I wanted to dig further.

TL: DR

 

[Tangerine_]

Sour Corey aka Star Diesel aka Sour Star Dawg
{Star Dawg (Corey) x Sour Dawg}

 

[Jameshaze999]

One thing about having 3 packs. You will be able to find a killer pheno for sure. You run all 3 packs you will find some dank. Definitely a keeper female most likley a male too. I had the same thing happen to me bought 2 packs of star diesel then seen the sour Stardawg and had to have it. Grow them out and be known for having the killer sour Stardawg .

 

[Jameshaze999]

Sour Corey aka Star Diesel aka Sour Star Dawg
{Star Dawg (Corey) x Sour Dawg}

View attachment 4178722

Straight murdered it

 

[Jameshaze999]

Amen brother! That’s my point exactly but I keep getting replies saying I’m sorry if this makes you mad and I didn’t want to start drama. lol. Someone with reason!

Read my post 2 lines up. You can have something like tang