630w CMH for a beginner?

[MedN00b]

2 315s still dont penetrate well at all. the 630w is where it's at for flower . I moved up to a 5x5 so I can grow more plants....

For an optimal 4 plant set up with the cmh would you say the 4x4 suffices? Or could you grt away with the 3x3 and a single 315w?

Ps did you use the single bulb 630 or two 315 bulbs?

 

[DesertPlants]

2 315s still dont penetrate well at all. the 630w is where it's at for flower . I moved up to a 5x5 so I can grow more plants....

I think I might be misunderstanding you. Are you're saying a 630 penetrates better than two 315s? Greater penetration is from dispersing the emission points. It allows the light to hit areas that would be shaded by plant mass above it. Light doesn't just penetrate deeper because it's stronger... with a TINY exception of refracted light. It can't just go through the leaves.

 

[Lucky Luke]

For an optimal 4 plant set up with the cmh would you say the 4x4 suffices? Or could you grt away with the 3x3 and a single 315w?

Ps did you use the single bulb 630 or two 315 bulbs?

Thanks for asking, its the Q im interested in to.

Im currently running a 600w HPS in a 4 x 4 flowering tent.

 

[growin-Jables]

For an optimal 4 plant set up with the cmh would you say the 4x4 suffices? Or could you grt away with the 3x3 and a single 315w?

Ps did you use the single bulb 630 or two 315 bulbs?

in a 4x4..a 630w is going to pushing Max intensity. you would need the fixture mounted as high as possible and keep plants short. in a 4x4. I would go with a combo of 315w cmh and 100-200w draw led for little extra umps. but a 315w cmh will do well in a 4x4 if kept to a scrog grow. nake sure to run 3100k bulbs

 

[Olive Drab Green]

QBs and COBs would be cheaper and just as effective. I do like CMH, though. Any legitimate lighting system for a new grower will probably make a huge difference in their enthusiasm. Lighting is probably the most important part of growing, and, I would say, probably has the most impact on your final yield, followed by genetics, followed by nutrients.

 

[growin-Jables]

I think I might be misunderstanding you. Are you're saying a 630 penetrates better than two 315s? Greater penetration is from dispersing the emission points. It allows the light to hit areas that would be shaded by plant mass above it. Light doesn't just penetrate deeper because it's stronger... with a TINY exception of refracted light. It can't just go through the leaves.

greater penetration is not soley relying on number of light angles. yes....its a factor....but intensity of the light fixtures its self plays a larger role imo. spacing out 2 315w fixtures still only leaves you with the single bulb intensity that only makes it was about 8 -12 inches into the canopy. have 2 315s. you might increase a few extra inches into canopy. A 630w fixture has a footprint of 5x5...so it already completely lights up the entire tent. as well as doubling the intensity intothe canopy and getting about 18-22 inches deep into canopy. when using 2 315s. you have a foot print of 3x3 with each fixture. so your kind of unnecessarily sacraficing alot of intensity, for spread you dont really need growing in such a small place. IMO, multiple fixtures is more beneficial in a large scale grow. in a tent grow. I would choose intensity over spreading out lower wattage bulbs in an area that's already small enough to be covered under one fixtures. This Comaprison test I found shows the level of par put out by a 630cmh hung from 36 inches . if you look at the charts and try and visualize it. 2 fixtures spaced out 2 ft apart. if you add up the numbers on the outside of the par foot print chart for single cmh. you will quickly realize how many weak spots in par there will be with 2 individual fixtures because after about 2x2. the par begins to drastically drop. and begin to overlap with the others fixtures weak spot, creating an even " ok " intensity light through out the tent.
. the dual cmh. has highest par ratings. an even up till the 3x3 and 4x4 par readings , it's still producing more par than what the single cmh would be creating right underneath the fixture . , its shows higher par numbers across the entire 5x5 in total. I hope this makes sense not just to myself lol. ive tried flowering unders 315s. ok. but only certain strains grow big buds consistently. when using 630w. any strain will produce very generous sized buds

 

[growin-Jables]

I think I might be misunderstanding you. Are you're saying a 630 penetrates better than two 315s? Greater penetration is from dispersing the emission points. It allows the light to hit areas that would be shaded by plant mass above it. Light doesn't just penetrate deeper because it's stronger... with a TINY exception of refracted light. It can't just go through the leaves.

lol why do you think hps penetrates better than any other light.....because of its intensity.....and again....buds get huge under hps....because the light is physically penetrating the buds and leaves. why do you think even shaded buds grow if light couldn't penetrate through leaves. there still light brought in from the sides. why can marijauna plants grow outside even in the shade with no direct sunlight. because light travel isn't linear necessarily. justthe fact that the sun makes it sooo bright outside, even in the shade the plant is still absorbing light and photosynthesizing

 

[OldMedUser]

lol why do you think hps penetrates better than any other light.....because of its intensity.....and again....buds get huge under hps....because the light is physically penetrating the buds and leaves. why do you think even shaded buds grow if light couldn't penetrate through leaves. there still light brought in from the sides. why can marijauna plants grow outside even in the shade with no direct sunlight. because light travel isn't linear necessarily. justthe fact that the sun makes it sooo bright outside, even in the shade the plant is still absorbing light and photosynthesizing

I'm of the mind that penetration isn't the big deal for most tent growers as they train their plants to an even canopy using a variety of techniques and lollipop the lower stuff anyway.

If all you have is the one 630 then when you have fewer plants you are stuck using it. Wastes a lot of power and light tho the fewer plants will likely do better there is still a lot wasted.

Our power here is 23.5¢/KWH and about 90% of my cost to grow bud. I veg my plants under fluoros until they are about 8" tall before I fire up a 400MH and then only if I have enough plants to need it. I still use an 8 tube 4' T12 fixture I built 17 years ago. I wired it so I can use 2, 4, 6 or all 8 tubes but If I need all 8 then it's using 360+ watts so might as well use the 400. I see guys using a 600 for tiny seedlings and think they are either living somewhere where power is dirt cheap or free, rich as f'k or dumber than a bag of hammers.

I just checked and have my 400 only 6" away from the tops and they are doing fine. About 2' plants and the bottom growth is good too.

I have 3 - 400w hps ballasts and will use one with smaller plants then two as they get bigger where sometimes I wish I had a 600 or two but can run all 3 if needed or switch to a 1000W when I got lots going. Have a conversion bulb to get MH light off an HPS ballast if I need more MH light tho my Hortilux Super HPS has enough blue light to veg well along with the MH bulb.

I find most hobby growers like myself are on a pretty low budget so getting one 315 then adding another when they scrounge up the cash works better for many as well. Once you get a few oz in the jars it's easier to save money for more gear too.

A Light Rail® is a great addition to many gardens too and I love mine. At around $300 it cost as much as a 1000W light but can make one light do the work of two and as it only uses 9W pays for itself after one decent grow. Made in Colorado too so not some cheap Chinese knockoff that will die in a couple years.

Just my 2¢.

 

[ColoradoHighGrower]

Exactly: 2x315=options and flexibility

 

[ColoradoHighGrower]

Ill try to document as much as I can, but to be perfectly honest. I have a very VERY simply set up and training / feed regimen....

Start off with feminized seed in fox farms happy frog soil. little bit of perlite and worm cast mixed. I use 23w 6500k cfls to veg them first few weeks. Then I transplant them into 1 gal soil pots of half happy frog and half ocean forest with perlite and worm cast. I then throw them under a 315w cmh. Phillips 4200k. And veg them for another 4 weeks. I only use straight filtered water with 1 ml mammoth p in veg every watering. I watered every few days or so.

Training wise I top once at the 4 node. Then train the branches. Once some girth has been added to the stalk. I split the stalk at " Y " to focus energy off of the main stalk and into all the other branches. I flipped to flower at week 7 veg. Transplant the same day into 7 gal soil pots of fox farms ocean forest and perlite and worm castings. I have two 3100k Phillips bulbs in my nanolux 630cmh. I start feeding with General organics bio bloom and bio Bud first week of flower. Starting at 25% strength.. I usually stay around 25 - 50% strength up until week 5ish. reason being is I feed almost every watering. Ive found that I get far better results giving it little bits of food at a time. Vs heavy feeding and possibly slightly burning and slowing down growth some then water , water. repeat. I always maintain green healthy plants all the way through flower. Now I supplement Calmag and Epsom salts every other waterings with my feedings. I also Add in Grandmas unsulphured molasses along with my calmag and Epsom salts. Usually 3 ml of cal mag and 1/4 tsp per gal of Epsom. I also added Mammoth P into my feedings this last run which really seemed to make a difference in quality yield and overall health of the plant. I start with 1 ml for first 3 wks of flower. then bump up to 2.5 ml wks 4,5,6. Then wks 7 and 8 I go heavy and give it 5 ml per gal. I flush twice the last week before cutting down. Hang for 4-5 days in the dark tent at 75 degrees and 60% RH

Enviornment: I didn't use any co2 what so ever. Again, I have such a simple simple set up, its incredible I get the results I do. I have a 5x5x7 tent. With a 36 inch tower fan for air circulation. 4 inch inline exhaust fan and 4 inch inline intake. my temps usually range from 60-78f. Rh sits around 35-55%. Not sure if I left anything out but im at work at the moment so let me know if theres any other questions

What do you mean by "split the stalk at the Y"? Do you split the main stalk? How far down from the Y? Or, do you supercrop extra branches so that you only have the two branches as vertical growth?

 

[Farmer.J]

I would pick 2 315s before the dual 630 lamp, and I would pick a double ended 630w bulb before the dual 630 lamp.
With these cmh, you will get better output when the bulbs are sitting vertically rather than horizontally. 2 seperate 315s (I would recommend the sun systems) would beat out a lamp containing 2 315's horizontally in one hood, in every aspect of you ask me. A double ended 630 would have more penetration but put off more heat. 2 seperate 315's will cover more grow area with a little less penetration.

Whatever you go with make sure it adverises low frequency square wave technology, and if you really want to do yourself a favor, don't get a model holding the bulb horizontally or one with two bulbs in one hood.
Good luck.

Hi.
I'm running two de630w cmh's in a 8x8 tent.
I'm thinking 4 vertical 315's would have been better coverage though. I am considering getting light movers after this harvest.
Do you think I have sufficient enough lighting for the size of the tent?

 

[NugHeuser]

Hi.
I'm running two de630w cmh's in a 8x8 tent.
I'm thinking 4 vertical 315's would have been better coverage though. I am considering getting light movers after this harvest.
Do you think I have sufficient enough lighting for the size of the tent?

The problem is 630s are good for 4x4, 5x5 ar max. So you are under lighted.
I would either put them on a light mover or go with the 4 315s.

 

[Farmer.J]

The problem is 630s are good for 4x4, 5x5 ar max. So you are under lighted.
I would either put them on a light mover or go with the 4 315s.

Yeah gualala robotics has a 5.0 side by side light mover that I believe can move 2-6 lights on parallel rails, it's $500 USD but still cheaper than buying 4 315's. I think that I will get the light mover this winter if I can afford it.
I thought a de630 should cover a 6x6 area (like a 600w hps) but if you say 4x4 then two of them should be perfect on light movers eh?

 

[NugHeuser]

Yeah gualala robotics has a 5.0 side by side light mover that I believe can move 2-6 lights on parallel rails, it's $500 USD but still cheaper than buying 4 315's. I think that I will get the light mover this winter if I can afford it.
I thought a de630 should cover a 6x6 area (like a 600w hps) but if you say 4x4 then two of them should be perfect on light movers eh?

I'd say two what work fine on light movers.
I've never had an hps cover a 6x6 though, about 4x4 tops on those, for me anyway.

I havent seen much of gardens outcomes with a light mover but you would be sitting around 19 watts per sq. ft. with the two 630's, so a light mover would most definitely be a must if you stuck with just those two.

 

[NugHeuser]

Set the two movers to start at opposing ends of you can, that'll help distribute the light.

 

[Psyphish]

I used to run two 315s in 3x4. I miss that setup. Now I'm stuck with crappy LEDs.

 

[NugHeuser]

I used to run two 315s in 3x4. I miss that setup. Now I'm stuck with crappy LEDs.

What happened to the 315s?
And what ya got going for leds, if ya dont mind me asking?

 

[Farmer.J]

Set the two movers to start at opposing ends of you can, that'll help distribute the light.

To do that is even more investment, two different motors. I hear what you are saying that it would be ideal. My goal is to run 2 lights parallel across the tent back and forth each minute of the light cycle.
I watched a YouTube video by grow boss explaining how to get the most out of lights by using light movers. He suggests that you can have the lights closer to the canopy because the intense light doesn't have enough time to burn plant tissues, yet penetrates deeper into the canopy. So what I think I understand is in a 4x8 you can run them in line on one motor with a 3' stroke, in a 8x8 I have to run side by side with a 6' stroke.

 

[Psyphish]

What happened to the 315s?
And what ya got going for leds, if ya dont mind me asking?

Cops took them. I can only run micro grows now, really small scale. This round I have a HLG65 for the weed and 8 HLG40s for my other plants, also 10 x 20w E27 LED spots. I just miss the growing power of higher wattage lighting. Compared to the previous round with 5x20w E27 spots, vegging is really slow and the plants are spindly, it's only about 2000 less lumen.

If you got room, definitely get CMH instead of LED.

 

[OldMedUser]

So what I think I understand is in a 4x8 you can run them in line on one motor with a 3' stroke, in a 8x8 I have to run side by side with a 6' stroke.

I bought a Light Rail 4.0 a couple years ago to use to light up an 8x4 space with a single 1000W HPS but haven't got around to building that space yet. Been using it in my regular grow room an now want another one for the new space if and when I build it.

They make a bracket to attach to the drive unit to use multiple lights with but it's simple enough to DIY one of your own. You want to make sure the weight of whatever you attach is centered so it pulls directly down on the drive unit.

I would prefer using 2 - 600W lights back to back but that means buying 2 - 600w ballasts and bulbs and that's not in the budget. Already have 2 - 1000W systems. With 2 - 600s I'd get 50% more lumen output for 20% more power input and Hortilux lumens are pretty good lumens.