Vermicompost as primary compost source?

rikdabrick

rikdabrick

Well-Known Member
TheBeardedBudzman said:
What do you suggest to avoid high levels of sulfur and sodium, proactively, to avoid any washing of anything? Would another remedy be to add potassium, if it were battling against high sodium levels? Or is that faulty logic?

But if too many nutrients are the only reason to use “so much” aeration, it sounds as if you’re advocating for no aeration and... no soil amendments?

Surely I can’t just grow my plants in some outside dirt and expect Dank.
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I don't personally worry to much about high sulfur unless it's affecting pH. Calcium in general is what I'd recommend to make room for other amendments. If the pH is high use gypsum and run water through it. If it's low, use lime or oyster shell flour. That'll knock out excess sodium anyway. The sulfate in gypsum will wash out easy enough if you use that too. I push high calcium and high phosphorous soils with everything else balanced based on CEC.

And I was just saying a balanced soil is the best and you'll be able to see how well your soil is balanced without abundant aeration saving your plants. I amend my soil regularly based on soil tests. I amend for Ca, Mg, Na, K, P, S, Fe, Mn, Zn, Cu, B, Si and even Co, Se and Mo as needed.
 
Miyagismokes

Miyagismokes

Well-Known Member
rikdabrick said:
I'm still not understanding what you're saying. Plants take up cations or anions which are both ions and they are both the elemental forms of minerals/elements which is what soil tests results give you. I use the Mehlich 3 and Ammonium Acetate pH 8.2 tests which both give results in the available elemental form of the elements based on the extract process. The Mehlich 3 test, for example uses a solvent with a pH 3.5 which is the same acidity of plant root exudates so the test lets you know what elements the plant roots can extract from the soil. I only use the Ammonium Acetate for calcium in all soils and for all major base cations in soils with a pH higher than 7 because most of the time it's carbonates and bicarbonates causing high pH in soil and the Mehlich 3 test won't give as accurate of results as the AA pH8.2 test in higher pH soils. Carbonates and bicarbonates can also skew calcium readings so that's why I use the AA pH8.2 test for my calcium readings.

I do this all year long flip-flopping between 2 20'x40' greenhouses straight in the ground with clay based soil. I've never added aeration. Most of the plants in there are 8-9 feet tall. If I ran my soil as hot or unbalanced as a lot of guys have their mixes on this (and other forums) my plants wouldn't stand a chance. Leave out the aeration out of your mix (and water properly) and see how happy your plants really are with your soil mix. Abundant aeration saves a lot of plants from unbalanced soils
View attachment 4170550 View attachment 4170552

Some of the shorties in the front right of the top pic were late fill in plants because I had a couple large plants that had to get cut for turning she-male on me, just FYI in case you were wondering what was up with the small plants.
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With all this talk about skewing results, it seems you understand exactly what I mean about these tests....
 
rikdabrick

rikdabrick

Well-Known Member
Miyagismokes said:
With all this talk about skewing results, it seems you understand exactly what I mean about these tests....
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There are no skewed results. I'm just knowledgeable about how to test soils properly. If you have a soil that has a pH above 7 then you would use an AA pH8.2 test. No agronomist would tell you otherwise most likely. Nothing skewed about that. It will give you reliable numbers. Pretty easy.

If you have a soil with a pH below 7 you can get a Mehlich 3 test done and everything will be accurate, BUT the calcium reading would be more accurate with an AA pH8.2 test if you have high carbonates or bicarbonates in your water or soil and you'll still get a calcium number that is pretty darn good, in fact a lot better than the number you'll get from guessing. So nothing skewed there except you can make a better reading on Ca for an extra $4 at the lab I use. And that's just next level stuff. Most people just use the Ca results from the Mehlich 3 test because it's still pretty darn close to accurate, but I'm the type of person who is particular and I'm growing a crop that is worth an extra $4 test.

So no, I don't get what you mean by skewed results. Slightly different numbers for a single element on the test you would only use for acidic leaning soils. I'm not sure what you mean by, "all this talk about skewing results".

Your last couple posts are as difficult to understand as this one. Let's review your points:
1. Soils tests are stupid because, "tests giving results in elements is actually superbly stupid"? (odd wording for someone giving advise on soil testing)
Because...,
2. "Plants take up ions, not stable elements"? (Besides being incorrect it's poorly worded. As already mentioned minerals in their elemental form are ions that plants absorb and this is what shows up on a soil test)
3. SOIL TESTING IS SKEWED because you can get a better reading on A SINGLE ELEMENT using a second $4 test instead of just one soil test on acidic leaning soils only and doesn't affect alkaline leaning soil test results (and it's not even necessary unless you're being particular)?

You are not giving me a lot of confidence that you are knowledgeable about soil chemistry, soil testing or mineral balancing in soils.
 
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Miyagismokes

Miyagismokes

Well-Known Member
rikdabrick said:
There are no skewed results. I'm just knowledgeable about how to test soils properly. If you have a soil that has a pH above 7 then you would use an AA pH8.2 test. No agronomist would tell you otherwise most likely. Nothing skewed about that. It will give you reliable numbers. Pretty easy.

If you have a soil with a pH below 7 you can get a Mehlich 3 test done and everything will be accurate, BUT the calcium reading would be more accurate with an AA pH8.2 test if you have high carbonates or bicarbonates in your water or soil and you'll still get a calcium number that is pretty darn good, in fact a lot better than the number you'll get from guessing. So nothing skewed there except you can make a better reading on Ca for an extra $4 at the lab I use. And that's just next level stuff. Most people just use the Ca results from the Mehlich 3 test because it's still pretty darn close to accurate, but I'm the type of person who is particular and I'm growing a crop that is worth an extra $4 test.

So no, I don't get what you mean by skewed results. Slightly different numbers for a single element on the test you would only use for acidic leaning soils. I'm not sure what you mean by, "all this talk about skewing results".

Your last couple posts are as difficult to understand as this one. Let's review your points:
1. Soils tests are stupid because, "tests giving results in elements is actually superbly stupid"? (odd wording for someone giving advise on soil testing)
Because...,
2. "Plants take up ions, not stable elements"? (Besides being incorrect it's poorly worded. As already mentioned minerals in their elemental form are ions that plants absorb and this is what shows up on a soil test)
3. SOIL TESTING IS SKEWED because you can get a better reading on A SINGLE ELEMENT using a second $4 test instead of just one soil test on acidic leaning soils only and doesn't affect alkaline leaning soil test results (and it's not even necessary unless you're being particular)?

You are not giving me a lot of confidence that you are knowledgeable about soil chemistry, soil testing or mineral balancing in soils.
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You're actually reading too deeply into a statement that was based on how soil savvy presents it's results, but you're fine assuming what you will. I stated many times I think testing is wise.

From one comment, you've decided to come in, dick swinging about your crop and how you have your testing done *just so* when I wasn't talking about you or your garden or your tests.
Is your dick still hard from all that typing?
 
rikdabrick

rikdabrick

Well-Known Member
Miyagismokes said:
You're actually reading too deeply into a statement that was based on how soil savvy presents it's results, but you're fine assuming what you will. I stated many times I think testing is wise.

From one comment, you've decided to come in, dick swinging about your crop and how you have your testing done *just so* when I wasn't talking about you or your garden or your tests.
Is your dick still hard from all that typing?
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I don't feel any form of erection from typing, but I can make it happen I guess.

I'm sorry for coming off harsh. I would come off cooler in person.

Your statements don't give me much confidence that you know what you're talking about in regards to soil testing though. If you ever want to get your soil tested you're welcome to message me and I'll give you the rundown.
 
Miyagismokes

Miyagismokes

Well-Known Member
rikdabrick said:
Your statements don't give me much confidence that you know what you're talking about in regards to soil testing though
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Not really, no. Never had it done. Never used the same dirt more than a couple of times, anyway. Not that I buy new, I just move around a lot so the dirt changes, I'm not moving dirt. There's usually already dirt wherever I'm going anyway.
It requires a bit of intuition and feel to adapt to new soil sight unseen, but it's just potting soil, in the end. Never had the opportunity to plant in the ground proper.
But if I ever settle in somewhere, I'd test, try the ground.

But I'm pretty sure that I could devise a method of no-testing, in the lab sense. I'd rather not, for the record.
 
T

TheBeardedBudzman

Well-Known Member
rikdabrick said:
I don't personally worry to much about high sulfur unless it's affecting pH. Calcium in general is what I'd recommend to make room for other amendments. If the pH is high use gypsum and run water through it. If it's low, use lime or oyster shell flour. That'll knock out excess sodium anyway. The sulfate in gypsum will wash out easy enough if you use that too. I push high calcium and high phosphorous soils with everything else balanced based on CEC.

And I was just saying a balanced soil is the best and you'll be able to see how well your soil is balanced without abundant aeration saving your plants. I amend my soil regularly based on soil tests. I amend for Ca, Mg, Na, K, P, S, Fe, Mn, Zn, Cu, B, Si and even Co, Se and Mo as needed.
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I’m hoping that after a year or two, worms will provide nearly all the aeration my soil may need. I’ll never skip testing, thanks to these moments here on this beginner thread.

Would it be a solution to build a soil without aeration, and test it, amend it accordingly, and THEN add aeration, if desired? Once balanced?...
 
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
kkt3 said:
You will get to know which members will lead you to where you want the girls to be. Wetdog is one of those for sure. He knows his stuff!!
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No, apparently I don't, not a clue. I've been told.

One thing I HAVE learned over time is the difference between my soil garden and the container mixes I make and treat each accordingly. Much like having both a fresh water fish and a salt water fish tank. Both are similar with entirely different requirements.

Wet
 
T

TheBeardedBudzman

Well-Known Member
Wetdog said:
No, apparently I don't, not a clue. I've been told.

One thing I HAVE learned over time is the difference between my soil garden and the container mixes I make and treat each accordingly. Much like having both a fresh water fish and a salt water fish tank. Both are similar with entirely different requirements.

Wet
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It’d obviously be silly for someone to tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re a great teacher and I appreciate your expert opinions.

I’d really just like to build a great soil and grow killer buds. I don’t want to grow in hydro and I don’t want to grow shitty bud. I don’t want to have to keep spending my money on street meds as I’ve done my whole life. It always burns like shit, smells like shit, tastes like shit and doesn’t get me stoned anymore.

Ever since I was younger, I get super manic. It’s a little beyond what you’d call bipolar. It’s sudden and profound, the way mania creeps it’s way into my mind, and I can’t ever shake it. I think wrong and can’t sort my thoughts and often times it makes me confused and angry because it’s the easiest response. I’ll stay stuck that way for a whole day sometimes and the only thing that’s ever been able to reach or and grab me from that place is a smoke. It’s like magic. Whatever talons are sunk into my brain instantly release and within just a couple puffs it’s like I forget why I was upset, disillusion fades and I settle back down on earth in my own body and skin.

When I was a teenager, doctors put me on psych meds after a psych evaluation, and they made me dull and empty, emotionless on the outside but sad and helpless on the inside. Eventually they caused uncontrollable muscle spasms all over my body, and I haven’t taken any meds since. Not even a Tylenol. Antibiotics in emergencies only.

I rely heavily on bud. My wife and children get nervous for me if I ever don’t have it.

One of the things that makes me feel really great and occupies my mind on any regular day is taking care of my outdoor property. I love mowing my grass, trimming my shrubs and my fruit/Palm trees, taking care of my flowers and my little herb garden. My horses, my chickens. This style hobby has been one of life’s great medicines for me as I’m sure God intended.

It’s important to me to build a great soil, do things right-ish, understand how things work. It’s also important to me to keep things natural, and powerfully so, because my isms are naturally powerful as well.

To me, building a great soil and growing great plants is entirely about quality of life for me as much as the plants.

Thanks everyone so much for discussion here.

BTW- setting up my worm bins today. I’m going back to the farm to pick up 40 lbs of worms. 40,000 worms!! I’m super excited. Going to bust them into 4 big fat bins, got all my materials ready. I also was directed to a park with lots of LEAVES under the trees! Got me 15 big bags of leaves stockpiled! Filled my 4Runner! Not many “browns” on my property in south central Florida.

The local newspaper printer gave me 5 milk crates of February newspapers I thought of using as a carbon source in my hot pile. Should I just skip the real glossy inky pages?

Sorry for typing so much. Thanks again guys.

-Beard
 
dannyboy602

dannyboy602

Well-Known Member
TheBeardedBudzman said:
Thanks a lot for your reply. Each of the amendments you mentioned, I’ve got on my list. I’m leaning toward perlite alternatives.

The plan is to build a great organic soil and add no nutes, just teas and worms.

4x4 tent, 10 gallon pots, 1000w hps with aircooled hood (with glass), a few strategically placed supplemental LED strips for lower canopy light, two 450 inline fans, one in one out. Going to mainline and baby 4 girls into an even canopy of 16 mains each, into a 64-square screen.

I’m hoping that building my own soil, raising my own worms, recycling my waste, and using it all to grow my own budz will give me the best smoke I’ve ever tried in my life.

So maybe 50% compost (half WC)
30%peat
20% pumice ;)
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Plus rep for going organic. I'm a little jealous that you have access to those resources.
I think what you're asking is can you rely on castings as your nitrogen source and the answer is yes. But and in my experience you need to be careful bc Cannabis is sensitive to an overly rich soil. 50% by volume is too much imo but given that castings are well composted I don't think it'll burn but I don't know. I've never used that much. The thing is though it's overkill. You won't get bigger, better, best. There's only so much good stuff the plant can handle after that its a waste. Furthermore Cannabis is adapted to growing in fertile well drained soil with little organic matter. Look at where the landrace strains grow. Look at where the species has adapted itself.

My organic mix is roughly as follows:
Peat/lite base. Promix is good or a substitute. I make my base from peat and add the perlite. I like the larger sizes of perlite rather than the small particles.
I use composted manure from home depot.
About 20 lbs castings, rock dust or azomite, greensand, rock phosphate and hort grade charcoal. The charcoal gives the nutrients a surface to cling to and it also has other benefits as well.
I stopped using meals like blood and bone bc I don't cook my soil. I use it fresh and never get burn or claw anymore. Blood and bone are excellent sources of N but a little goes a long way.

Over time you'll learn what works best for you but going Organic is a great first step. Your soil will literally be alive. The plants will have everything they need for your entire cycle. Nothing to add but water. No flush will be necessary. Remember though that any added fertilizer will hurt the microbes so don't use it. You won't need it anyway.
I'm always up for helping guys out and I've walked many guys through their first grow so don't hesitate to ask.
Download a book titled Teaming with Microbes. Its a good read for any soil grower and will give you a better understanding on the dynamics of soil. After reading Teaming with Microbes you'll never want to grow any other way. Good luck.
 
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