Those Damned Intolerant Liberals

[UncleBuck]

That's exactly right

The extremists here would have you believe there is no way to change their minds, they are a lost cause. Instead, they promote vitriol and hate as their way to try to turn congress blue when it's been proven by multiple independent studies to fail, and in the end, be much more detrimental to the Democratic/progressive cause than if they did no promoting at all.

They're trying to benefit the Republican party by contrasting such an extreme position. By promoting violence and hate, Independents are turned off, thus ensuring a Republican advantage

@Sithlord88

pada here is gonna change your mind with ponies and rainbows. within no time at all you will abandon your hateful beliefs!

have at him, padaraper!

 

[Bugeye]

That's exactly right

The extremists here would have you believe there is no way to change their minds, they are a lost cause. Instead, they promote vitriol and hate as their way to try to turn congress blue when it's been proven by multiple independent studies to fail, and in the end, be much more detrimental to the Democratic/progressive cause than if they did no promoting at all.

They're trying to benefit the Republican party by contrasting such an extreme position. By promoting violence and hate, Independents are turned off, thus ensuring a Republican advantage

We disagree on many issues but I think you are spot on here.

 

[Fogdog]

Did violence defeat Nazism as an idea? No it didn't, because there are still Nazi's.

You can't defeat an idea using violence. You have to defeat an idea using a better idea.

So it's pointless to use violence against Nazis, as you said, they will simply regroup and reform again at a later period. So if that's your goal, to stop today's Nazis and dismiss tomorrows, sure, mission accomplished. But then what about the Nazis that form in the future because your violent approach today didn't actually solve the underlying problem of why Nazis actually exist in the first place?

Thanks for your emotional reply. But you answered a question nobody asked. I asked:

When has pacifism has ever defeated Nazis?

Men with guns most certainly defeated Hitler and his Nazi regime. Laws in Germany have kept Nazis under wraps ever since. This is the only way that has proven to work.

 

[Padawanbater2]

aren't you about 30 years old and still living with your parents?

I'm living with my father who suffers from a terminal illness because I don't support putting him in a nursing home towards the end of his life while paying the majority of the bills and working 120 hours a week while raising a baby, dealing with a restraining order, a crazy, delusional, fucked up ex boyfriend, and trying to make enough time to get fucked up in.

 

[UncleBuck]

I'm living with my father who suffers from a terminal illness because I don't support putting him in a nursing home towards the end of his life while paying the majority of the bills and working 120 hours a week while raising a baby, dealing with a restraining order, a crazy, delusional, fucked up ex boyfriend, and trying to make enough time to get fucked up in.

you can't raise a baby and work 120 hours a week

if you were capable of maintaining an erection to thereby impregnate a woman you'd know that

 

[Padawanbater2]

Thanks for your emotional reply. But you answered a question nobody asked. I asked:

When has pacifism has ever defeated Nazis?

Men with guns most certainly defeated Hitler and his Nazi regime. Laws in Germany have kept Nazis under wraps ever since. This is the only way that has proven to work.

Nazi's have never been defeated. That's why they still exist..


So "men with guns" defeated Naszism".. Then why, in your mind, can't "men with guns" defeat public shootings?. Are you one who believes the more people armed, the safer the environment when it comes to public/school shootings?

 

[UncleBuck]

Nazi's have never been defeated.

 

[tangerinegreen555]

Nazi's have never been defeated. That's why they still exist..

They're not the same Nazis FFS.

Jesus Fucking Christ you can tell how old you are.

Go wear a swastika in modern day Germany and see what happens. Please.

 

[Fogdog]

Nazi's have never been defeated. That's why they still exist..


So "men with guns" defeated Naszism".. Then why, in your mind, can't "men with guns" defeat public shootings?. Are you one who believes the more people armed, the safer the environment when it comes to public/school shootings?

Yeah, I think you should go back and check history because there are few facts that are more well known. Nazi Germany surrendered after years of bloody conflict (aka violence) most definitely carried out by men with guns on both sides. Hitler killed himself before he could be taken into "custody" by Russian troops.

So, actually we do have an example where violence defeated Nazis

You still haven't answered my albeit leading question: When has pacifism ever defeated Nazis?

Failure to answer will result in a forfeit.

 

[Padawanbater2]

They're not the same Nazis FFS.

I see, you just treat them as if they're the same Nazis

"Hyperbole"

You should look that term up if you choose to use this as your defense when called upon

 

[Padawanbater2]

we do have an example where violence defeated Nazis

You're claiming Nazi's still exist

So do Nazis still exist, or did violence defeat them?

 

[tangerinegreen555]

I see, you just treat them as if they're the same Nazis

"Hyperbole"

You should look that term up if you choose to use this as your defense when called upon

Called upon by whom?

Why don't you duct tape your fucking eyes open and watch history docs until you catch on.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Called upon by whom?

Why don't you duct tape your fucking eyes open and watch history docs until you catch on.

Why is this question so difficult for you to answer?

If Nazis were defeated in WW2 through violence, why would you claim they exist today?

 

[Padawanbater2]

Obviously violence did not "solve" Nazism

 

[Padawanbater2]

Because violence cannot "solve" an idea, no matter how much you wish it could

 

[ttystikk]

aren't you about 30 years old and still living with your parents?

Congratulations!

A totally irrelevant argument.

But no vitriol, so it is at least progress.

 

[ttystikk]

I think Vox did an article on how to change a white supremacist mind. They interviewed lots of former KKK types that have rejected that ideology. Hatred and violence strengthens the racist attitude. Only empathy for the individuals issues in life and reasoned discussion that guided the racist to the conclusion of their anger being misplaced or misdirected led to change.

I've read this too. It doesn't always work but it definitely works better than violence, threats and insults.

 

[Bugeye]

Obviously violence did not "solve" Nazism

I'm with you on violence not solving nazism, but it did certainly push back the cause dramatically in WW2. Good philosophical question because it doesn't seem to work at either extreme.

 

[tangerinegreen555]

Why is this question so difficult for you to answer?

If Nazis were defeated in WW2 through violence, why would you claim they exist today?

 

[Padawanbater2]

I'm with you on violence not solving nazism, but it did certainly push back the cause dramatically in WW2. Good philosophical question because it doesn't seem to work at either extreme.

Violence attributed by the US and allies during WW2 was a result of exhausted diplomacy. It's a giant mistake to say WW2 was solved by violence. How much violence was committed in WW1? Not enough, if you go by that logic. The US Civil War? Not enough.. Violence does not solve conflicts, it simply perpetuates the conflict so the next few generations will have to figure it out.

The only thing that actually solves conflict is reason.