Scientist says all cannabis basically the same?

[Lucky Luke]

As I said, if the breeder offers full disclosure then I have no issue. If a breeder states that it is a pure stable strain and then sends out F1 hybrids, then that is bullshit. If they say it is an F1 hybrid and they send out an F1 hybrid, then fine.

These folks say exactly what they are selling, for example: http://www.peakseedsbc.com/seeds.htm

But they are also using the title "pure strain" for stuff that they didn't originally breed.....Its their copy of. Its not the real deal.

 

[Heisenberg]

There are farmers who get sued every day by them because someone else's Monsanto crop cross pollinated theirs, or they find Monsanto genetics on the outskirts of someones field, and they run a genetics test on your crop and file lawsuit, all the while the farmer was trying to save seed and not go GMO.

Monsanto doesn't sue for cross pollination, they sue for breach of contract or patent infringement (theft). Even then, there has only been 147 lawsuits filed since 1997. It certainly doesn't happen everyday. If you find Monsanto seed has somehow found its way into your crops, they will remove it for you and pay for it. Also, I don't see any reason why Monsanto would want to get into the cannabis business.

Most farmers do not want to save their seeds anyway. The offspring do not tend to reliably carry the desired traits. It's easier to just buy new seeds. This is true whether the crop is GE or not, and it's been true since the 1930s when hybrid crops became the norm.

 

[whitebb2727]

As I said, if the breeder offers full disclosure then I have no issue. If a breeder states that it is a pure stable strain and then sends out F1 hybrids, then that is bullshit. If they say it is an F1 hybrid and they send out an F1 hybrid, then fine.

These folks say exactly what they are selling, for example: http://www.peakseedsbc.com/seeds.htm

It is. I was running a mother and clones for a while.

It sure makes things easier for production.

 

[cogitech]

But they are also using the title "pure strain" for stuff that they didn't originally breed.....Its their copy of. Its not the real deal.

I agree that is slightly misleading. In a sense it is likely true that they are "pure strains" (I have reason to trust this particular site) but they may not be "original pure strains" (and they don't claim that).

Still, it is a gray area and I am not sure I like it.

 

[Gquebed]

What? Dude just 3 or 4 phenos is a very well worked line.

F1 crosses are quit common in cannabis and vegetables.

F1 perform fairly uniform and you get hybrid vigor.

I prefer heirloom lines that I can save seed. I also grow a lot of F1 hybrid crops because they perform well.

I don't mind buying a f1 cross if the sole purpose is production.

If the breeder keeps the same cuts and always offers F1 of that cross they will perform the same.

You get all the different phenos f2 and further to a point then becoming more uniform again.

If a breeder makes F1 crosses and takes the time to keep the same cuts and keep them organized for years to provide a stable product then I don't mind.

Depends... if you get 3 or 4 phenos out of a group of 5 seeds that come in a pack then no... thats nota well worked strain to me.

I have some Ak47 seeds. Ive grown out about 100 of em and have only seen 4 phenos. Thats a stable strain. To me.

 

[whitebb2727]

Depends... if you get 3 or 4 phenos out of a group of 5 seeds that come in a pack then no... thats nota well worked strain to me.

I have some Ak47 seeds. Ive grown out about 100 of em and have only seen 4 phenos. Thats a stable strain. To me.

Sure. At the same time it could be that in a pack of five you just happened to get the four phenos. It happens.

Same with reg seeds. Buy enough of them and you could possibly get all males in a pack. Rare but it does happen.

I usually expect to see 2-4 phenos in a well worked strain.

I expect to see about that many in a first gen cross. It's why a lot of cannabis and vegetables are sold that way.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Monsanto doesn't sue for cross pollination, they sue for breach of contract or patent infringement (theft). Even then, there has only been 147 lawsuits filed since 1997. It certainly doesn't happen everyday. If you find Monsanto seed has somehow found its way into your crops, they will remove it for you and pay for it. Also, I don't see any reason why Monsanto would want to get into the cannabis business.

Most farmers do not want to save their seeds anyway. The offspring do not tend to reliably carry the desired traits. It's easier to just buy new seeds. This is true whether the crop is GE or not, and it's been true since the 1930s when hybrid crops became the norm.

that's why they call them "heirloom" seeds...they keep reproducing the same stable line, indefinitely. think landrace tomato plants....

 

[Lucky Luke]

Depends... if you get 3 or 4 phenos out of a group of 5 seeds that come in a pack then no... thats nota well worked strain to me.

I have some Ak47 seeds. Ive grown out about 100 of em and have only seen 4 phenos. Thats a stable strain. To me.

But you could then pop 100 seeds and still only see the same 3 or 4 phenos...

The problem often lies with the purchaser. They expect to get the pheno they are after in only a small sample size when some people will pop 30 or more seeds to cull 20 and be very happy they got the 10 they want to keep.
We know some breeders/growers will do a 1,000 plant seed run just to find the "right" mother or farther.

 

[Tim1987]

But you could then pop 100 seeds and still only see the same 3 or 4 phenos...

The problem often lies with the purchaser. They expect to get the pheno they are after in only a small sample size when some people will pop 30 or more seeds to cull 20 and be very happy they got the 10 they want to keep.
We know some breeders/growers will do a 1,000 plant seed run just to find the "right" mother or farther.

But then it's their responsibility to work that pheno, into a stable strain.
Not just take clones straight away, and start chucking pollen from some male they have. Then call it a day.
Which is what's happening.
How many "Widows" or "Cheeses" are there for example.

 

[Lucky Luke]

But then it's their responsibility to work that pheno, into a stable strain.
Not just take clones straight away, and start chucking pollen from some male they have. Then call it a day.
Which is what's happening.
How many "Widows" or "Cheeses" are there for example.

3 or4 phenos that don't have a tendancy to hermi is a stable strain.

Cheeses are a class of cannabis, lots of strains id hope. (watch that vid on identifying strains)

There is only one original White Widow, from Green House seeds I believe. All the other white widows are copies. (I take it from Widows you meant WW- if not ignore))

 

[Tim1987]

3 or4 phenos that don't have a tendancy to hermi is a stable strain.

Cheeses are a class of cannabis, lots of strains id hope. (watch that vid on identifying strains)

Cheeses and widows arent landraces are they.
I think we can all agree on that.

Im sick of all this Chem x Dog x Og Kush x Starship x Monkey x Train Wreck x Black x Berry x Mango x Skunk x Widow bullshit.

How many times are we gonna recreate the wheel?

 

[cogitech]

LOL

 

[Lucky Luke]

Lolz Luke cheeses and widows arent landraces are they.
I think we can all agree on that.

Im sick of all this Chem x Dog x Og Kush x Starship x Monkey x Train Wreck x Black x Berry x Mango x Skunk x Widow bullshit.

How many times are we gonna recreate the wheel?

Land races? Whats land races have to do with it?
Once a land race is cultivated its no longer a land race.

 

[Lucky Luke]

I also love stuff with a heavy Thai influence, trouble is Thai is so fkn unstable.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Tim, you don't buy seeds and its like your trying to justifie why you don't buy seeds. If you don't want to buy seed then we don't care, if you want to buy seed then again we don't care,

Buying seeds has its advantages, it also has its disadvantages. Using cuts is the best method for consistency. I run a few strains at anyone time in a small area so I like having available fem seed stock and recently started to use clones of the plants I like.

Without people breeding or chucking it would get pretty boring growing and smoking the same thing over and over again. Not to mention those breeding the short flowering, colder tolerant strains that allows people from shorter, cooler climates to still produce a quality product.

 

[too larry]

Are you guys serious?

How else do they keep consistency in the MILLIONS of seeds going out the door each year???
How can they even claim a consistent strain without seeding a cultivar with the single male cultivar? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Commercially, how would you sell these, and claim a consistent product?
How would you produce millions, and millions of the SAME seeds each year?
Isn't product consistency part of good business planning?

You would produce them the same way they do now. With cuts from a single mother plant and a single father plant. It's just a matter of scale. Instead of 100 cuts of the mother and 10 of the father, you would run 10K clones of the mother and 1K of the father. As long as the cuts are around, the strain is around.

 

[Tim1987]

Tim, you don't buy seeds and its like your trying to justifie why you don't buy seeds. If you don't want to buy seed then we don't care, if you want to buy seed then again we don't care,

Buying seeds has its advantages, it also has its disadvantages. Using cuts is the best method for consistency. I run a few strains at anyone time in a small area so I like having available fem seed stock and recently started to use clones of the plants I like.

Without people breeding or chucking it would get pretty boring growing and smoking the same thing over and over again. Not to mention those breeding the short flowering, colder tolerant strains that allows people from shorter, cooler climates to still produce a quality product.

I think ive clearly stated my point of view enough dude.
Im not going to debate it any further.

I want to buy seeds.
But finding the right ones is like finding a needle in a hay stack.

For examples sake. Some genuine Skunk#1 seeds are what ive been after forever, to introduce to my seeds.
But who sells GENUINE Skunk#1 seeds these days?

Ive been really tempted to buy "SHIT" and "Shark Shock" before. But are they actually seeds from the original parent cuttings? Or just under a different name?
"White Shark" is my favourite strain of all time. Ive wanted some seeds for ages. Been tempted by "Shark Shock". But does the Shark Shock cutting come from the same batch of seeds as White Shark? I havnt found anywhere that says so.

And on the topic of more distant seeds, like seeds from landraces. Who doesnt want some of them.

 

[Xs121]

But you could then pop 100 seeds and still only see the same 3 or 4 phenos...

The problem often lies with the purchaser. They expect to get the pheno they are after in only a small sample size when some people will pop 30 or more seeds to cull 20 and be very happy they got the 10 they want to keep.
We know some breeders/growers will do a 1,000 plant seed run just to find the "right" mother or farther.

Dude, you're missing the point.

We're not breeders or at least I don't pretend I'm a breeder (maybe when it becomes federally legal). As you have already pointed out, true breeders will run hundreds/thousands seed run (this process is culled culling which would require time and space). We leave the breeding to the breeders, we just want stable feminized seeds for production.

What is feminized seeds? Seeds from selfied female plant.
Why we buy feminized seeds? Is it for breeding? Is it to hunt for phenos? Obviously the answer is clear, its not for breeding and it's not for pheno hunting

We buy feminized seeds for 2 reasons

1. Guaranteed female plants
2. To get the same result, 'production wise' just like the mother.

Our goal is simple...plant it, grow it, harvest it, and smoke it (or eat it if you will)….then buy more seeds (if cloning is not an option).

That's it.

Why is it hard for breeders to give us say an F8 feminized seeds or F16? You know why? Because in my honest opinion, they don't know jack shit how to do real breeding.

All those original strains, if they were in the hand of serious breeders (orchid breeders for example), we would be hearing F100 by now. Hybrid going through heterosis is not a strain simple as that.

 

[Xs121]

You would produce them the same way they do now. With cuts from a single mother plant and a single father plant. It's just a matter of scale. Instead of 100 cuts of the mother and 10 of the father, you would run 10K clones of the mother and 1K of the father. As long as the cuts are around, the strain is around.

and they call this breeding? No wonder why strains are disappearing and replaced with new crosses. I wish breeding is as simple as that.

 

[too larry]

Cheeses and widows arent landraces are they.
I think we can all agree on that.

Im sick of all this Chem x Dog x Og Kush x Starship x Monkey x Train Wreck x Black x Berry x Mango x Skunk x Widow bullshit.

How many times are we gonna recreate the wheel?

You would not like my Poly Shunks then.

Poly Shunk 1 {Triangle Kush Cookies X Nightcap} X Shit/Skunk.

Poly Shunk 1.5 {Triangle Kush Cookies X Nightcap X Sinmint} X Shit/Skunk.

Then when you add in the crosses I have made with them.

(Ass Cheese {Cindy's Blue Cheese X Donkey Kong} X {Powernap X Sinmint Cookies}) X Poly Shunk 1.5.

Skunk X Shit/Skunk X Poly Shunk 1.

(Gorille de Raisin X {Powernap X Sinmint Cookies}) X {Afghani X Shit/Skunk}

Ass Cheese X {Blue Shiva X Blue Shark}

{Ass Cheese X {Powernap X Sinmint Cookies} X [Blue Shiva X Blue Shark}

I could go on, but you get the picture.